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Forums - Sales Discussion - Will the PS4 outsell the XBox One and WiiU?

snowdog said:
I wouldn't worry too much about the bandwidth either. You'll find developers happier working with two systems with low latency. As soonas GDDR5 was announced you've had developers happy about it but once they realise that the higher latency has the potential to cause bottlenecks they'll prefer working with the DDR3 and eDRAM/ESRAM combinations believe it or not.

Latency these days doesn't really matter that much, back in the day it could make a pretty significant change but not with the much higher clocks these days.  It doesn't really impact game performance(maybe 1%-2% tops), especially not with a APU one chip design and the memory sitting so close by. And for any gain it would give the gain of higher bandwith is bigger.

However Wii-U only has a bandwidth of 12.8 gb/s, witch is only have of what even the X360 and PS3 have.



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That bandwidth completely disregards the eDRAM mate. If bandwidth was a problem Most Wanted wouldn't be possible and a port of Watch Dogs from the PC to the Wii U wouldn't be possible, same goes for future current gen titles. Ubisoft would have to port from the 360 SKU which also would run like a pile of old pants. The launch titles, Most Wanted and Watch Dogs prove that bandwidth isn't an issue.

And like I said, publishers will continue to support the Wii U when cross-generation development will stop. Shareholders will demand it.



We still arguing about the Wii U's power? Look, just let the games speak for themselves.

I think people are underestimating the Xbone. I'm not saying that I don't think it's freaking ridiculous, but people have been known to buy freaking ridiculous things.



AnthonyW86 said:
snowdog said:
I wouldn't worry too much about the bandwidth either. You'll find developers happier working with two systems with low latency. As soonas GDDR5 was announced you've had developers happy about it but once they realise that the higher latency has the potential to cause bottlenecks they'll prefer working with the DDR3 and eDRAM/ESRAM combinations believe it or not.

Latency these days doesn't really matter that much, back in the day it could make a pretty significant change but not with the much higher clocks these days.  It doesn't really impact game performance(maybe 1%-2% tops), especially not with a APU one chip design and the memory sitting so close by. And for any gain it would give the gain of higher bandwith is bigger.

However Wii-U only has a bandwidth of 12.8 gb/s, witch is only have of what even the X360 and PS3 have.

and yet it makes stuff like zelda/ japanese garden demo and monolith x at the beggining of it's life, all of wich are quite superior than ps360 games. magic? nope, just technology. and if memory was a problem for wii u, it wouldn't be the most praised of it's parts by devs.



snowdog said:

Now I'm casting my mind back it's nearer to 40% of the silicon. Unless Nintendo just bunged in a shedload of silicon that does absolutely nothing just for a bit of a giggle that silicon is going to bridge the gap between the Wii U and the other 2 current gen consoles somewhat.

And it should be noted that we've already seen 2 titles that are a noticeable step up from the PS3 and 360 in Trine 2 and Most Wanted, and that's with most of the development done with unfinished tools and underpowered dev kits. Several developers have said that the GPU in particular punches above its weight.

It is a current gen platform in terms of power, not a previous gen console, you're talking about 3-4 times more powerful than the 360.

As for being a 'casual' console that's nonsense, the 'hardcore' titles like ZombiU and Black Ops 2 have done pretty well...especially the latter when you consider the delay in launches, the lack of free DLC and the difference in price.

And you'll both Sony and Microsoft attempting to go for that 'casual' audience too. All 3 platform holders are going to be pitching their consoles and specific games to 'casuals', 'hardcore' and a great deal of titles are going to be aimed at everyone, you'll have both groups buying them.

As for developers and publishers we'll have to wait until E3 to see what publishers are doing, but any publisher that wants to stay in business will bring their current gen multiplatform to the Wii U and they'll either have the Wii U as the lead platform up-porting to the PS4 and One or more likely have the PC as the lead platform and down-port to all 3 current gen systems. The PS3 and 360 will have separate SKUs developed independently, this is already happening with Watch Dogs.

You've already seen the effect that shareholders can have on publisher's decisions with EA. Ignoring a console that's likely to have a superior installed userbase between 6.5m and 8.5m or more than the PS4 and One's 1.5m before the end of year isn't a good way to earn money. It's publishers that hold the purse strings at the end of the day and the Wii U is going to have a superior installed userbase for years. Just look at the 360 last gen as a pure example of the benefits that a year's head start can bring, the PS3 has only just overtaken it (although I'd personally say that Sony did this a couple of years ago given the amount of consoles dying from the RROD).

Once publishers drop PS3 and 360 support in a couple of years they're going to continue supporting the Wii U because they won't need to have a separate SKU independently developed. Nintendo's forward thinking with their choice of architecture guarantees this.

I just don't get why you would want to keep defending the Wii U hardware. Even if there is a little more to the Wii U then a ps3 or 360, it's obviously still miles behind the ps4. So why would you want to see a console like that be the lead platform? Wouldn't it be a lot more interesting for gamers to actually see what these new consoles can do instead of just playing 1080p versions of the same games we've been playing for 7 years now?

I am no Nintendo hater but for gamers it's actually a good thing that the Wii U is selling around 25k units a week now. It's not selling because as a core gaming machine, nobody cares about it. If core gamers don't care then developers aren't going to either. Hence why 80% of the AAA multiplatform games aren't even coming to the Wii U now, let alone when the next gen consoles hit the market. 



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goopy20 said:
snowdog said:

Now I'm casting my mind back it's nearer to 40% of the silicon. Unless Nintendo just bunged in a shedload of silicon that does absolutely nothing just for a bit of a giggle that silicon is going to bridge the gap between the Wii U and the other 2 current gen consoles somewhat.

And it should be noted that we've already seen 2 titles that are a noticeable step up from the PS3 and 360 in Trine 2 and Most Wanted, and that's with most of the development done with unfinished tools and underpowered dev kits. Several developers have said that the GPU in particular punches above its weight.

It is a current gen platform in terms of power, not a previous gen console, you're talking about 3-4 times more powerful than the 360.

As for being a 'casual' console that's nonsense, the 'hardcore' titles like ZombiU and Black Ops 2 have done pretty well...especially the latter when you consider the delay in launches, the lack of free DLC and the difference in price.

And you'll both Sony and Microsoft attempting to go for that 'casual' audience too. All 3 platform holders are going to be pitching their consoles and specific games to 'casuals', 'hardcore' and a great deal of titles are going to be aimed at everyone, you'll have both groups buying them.

As for developers and publishers we'll have to wait until E3 to see what publishers are doing, but any publisher that wants to stay in business will bring their current gen multiplatform to the Wii U and they'll either have the Wii U as the lead platform up-porting to the PS4 and One or more likely have the PC as the lead platform and down-port to all 3 current gen systems. The PS3 and 360 will have separate SKUs developed independently, this is already happening with Watch Dogs.

You've already seen the effect that shareholders can have on publisher's decisions with EA. Ignoring a console that's likely to have a superior installed userbase between 6.5m and 8.5m or more than the PS4 and One's 1.5m before the end of year isn't a good way to earn money. It's publishers that hold the purse strings at the end of the day and the Wii U is going to have a superior installed userbase for years. Just look at the 360 last gen as a pure example of the benefits that a year's head start can bring, the PS3 has only just overtaken it (although I'd personally say that Sony did this a couple of years ago given the amount of consoles dying from the RROD).

Once publishers drop PS3 and 360 support in a couple of years they're going to continue supporting the Wii U because they won't need to have a separate SKU independently developed. Nintendo's forward thinking with their choice of architecture guarantees this.

I just don't get why you would want to keep defending the Wii U hardware. Even if there is a little more to the Wii U then a ps3 or 360, it's obviously still miles behind the ps4. So why would you want to see a console like that be the lead platform? Wouldn't it be a lot more interesting for gamers to actually see what these new consoles can do instead of just playing 1080p versions of the same games we've been playing for 7 years now?

I am no Nintendo hater but for gamers it's actually a good thing that the Wii U is selling around 25k units a week now. It's not selling because as a core gaming machine, nobody cares about it. If core gamers don't care then developers aren't going to either. Hence why 80% of the AAA multiplatform games aren't even coming to the Wii U now, let alone when the next gen consoles hit the market. 

bolded 1: we both know it's quite superior than ps360 and not much behind ps4.

bolded 2: 1080p versions of games we've been playing for 7 years is pretty much what was shown for ps4 and xone.

bolded 3: just like 3ds right? it's not like the 3ds started selling gangbusters after it finally received it's system sellers, oh wait!

bolded 4: how many AAA multiplatform titles are announced for this year? let's see, batman, AC4, Watch dogs, all coming to wii u. gta v and dark souls 2 haven't been confirmed for wii u, but they weren't confirmed for ps4 or xone either. what about to be released exclusives? 3d mario, mario kart, smash bros, pikmin 3, W 101, bayonetta 2, sonic lost worlds, monolith X, smt x fe, yoshi's yarn, wii fit U, wii party U... and who knows what else they will announce at E3.



I see a fierce battle Sony V.S Nintendo, but maybe M$ surprising. Who knows...



Nobody cares about it because very little has been released for it since launch. As Zero999 has pointed out this drought is beginning to end this Summer. It's sold over 3m already, should do 3m before November and should do 4m+ from November to the end of the year.

We'll probably see the following before Christmas:

Wii Fit U
Pikmin 3
The Wonderful 101
Game & Wario
Wind Waker HD
3D Mario
Mario Kart 8
Batman Arkham Origins
Rayman Legends
Assassin's Creed 4
Watch Dogs
Mario & Sonic At The Winter Olympics
CoD Ghosts

And the following spread out over the course of the next year:

Bayonetta 2
Sonic Lost Worlds
Retro's new game
Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem
Yoshi's Yarn
X
Super Smash Bros. U
Wii Sports U
+ Most big 8th gen big name multiplatform titles

Going by my guesstimations the Wii U should have an installed userbase more than three times the installed userbases of the PS4 and One, and that sort of lead is very difficult to close up, particularly with Nintendo have the strongest stable of system selling IPs in the business...particularly when sales will slow down considerably when both the PS4 and One have their own obligatory post-launch software drought and people are skint after Christmas.

The installed userbases of both the PS4 and One will be under 2m when New Year's Day 2014 comes along.



snowdog said:

Nobody cares about it because very little has been released for it since launch. As Zero999 has pointed out this drought is beginning to end this Summer. It's sold over 3m already, should do 3m before November and should do 4m+ from November to the end of the year.

We'll probably see the following before Christmas:

Wii Fit U
Pikmin 3
The Wonderful 101
Game & Wario
Wind Waker HD
3D Mario
Mario Kart 8
Batman Arkham Origins
Rayman Legends
Assassin's Creed 4
Watch Dogs
Mario & Sonic At The Winter Olympics
CoD Ghosts

And the following spread out over the course of the next year:

Bayonetta 2
Sonic Lost Worlds
Retro's new game
Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem
Yoshi's Yarn
X
Super Smash Bros. U
Wii Sports U
+ Most big 8th gen big name multiplatform titles

Going by my guesstimations the Wii U should have an installed userbase more than three times the installed userbases of the PS4 and One, and that sort of lead is very difficult to close up, particularly with Nintendo have the strongest stable of system selling IPs in the business...particularly when sales will slow down considerably when both the PS4 and One have their own obligatory post-launch software drought and people are skint after Christmas.

The installed userbases of both the PS4 and One will be under 2m when New Year's Day 2014 comes along.

I am sure that the poor sales of the Wii U have something to do with the lack of games. However, the poor sales are still there while you make it sound like the ps4 will have to overcome a giant lead of the Wii U. It's selling like 23k units a week now and if that doesn't change drastically then it will take the Wii U 7 years to reach a 8m installbase (close to Dreamcast numbers).  

But if the Wii U does have a second wind then it will be because of the exclusives you just mentioned that are aimed at a young, more casual audience, not because of watered down versions of multiplatform titles. 



Based on what we have seen on the internet as of late, PS4 will destroy everything......but remember its only the internet.



 

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