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Forums - Gaming Discussion - 720 will Decide if WiiU RAM is enough.

fillet on 16 April 2013

OP...

Yes the PS2 did run most the games the Xbox did with compromises.

Unfortunately those compromises were generally one's that made the game not worth playing.

Splinter Cell series, Max Payne series.

Any game that was ported from the Xbox to the PS2 ended up as one big horrible ropey mess, which is wrong as the PS2 was capable of better than those ports, but it goes to show that porting that way leads to bad results and awful games.

Even if the Xbox 360 only uses 4GB for game use, it's still a massive difference to 1GB.

Video game forums are generally full of optimists (as well as doom mongers), but I'm yet to be convinced by any argument at all by the optimists, and I'm fully behind the doom mongers. The Wii-U is almost definitely screwed by the looks of things and I think we all know it.

I take no pleasure in thinking that mind, it's just the logical conclusion.



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fillet on 16 April 2013
Netyaroze said:
Zero999 said:

" Wii U's RAM is about half as fast as the PS3's": says who? not the developers praising the wii u ram. not the games that run better on wii u than on ps360.

if you're talking about those numbers of 22mb/s for ps3 vs 12.8mb/s for wii u. I might be wrong here, but I think that's the maximun performance for the ps3 (the game code is optimized the most) against the raw speed of the memory wii u uses. it desn't take into consideration how the wii u works as a whole. if we were to check the ps3 memory separetely from the console I think it would be far less than the wii u's raw 12.8mb/s.


PS3 has two memory pools XDR 25 GB/s GDDR3 22 GB/s

The GPU can access both pools so it can peak @ 45GB/s the CPU has just access to one pool @ 25 GB/s, the split memory however costs performance.

The Wii U has  32 MB EDRAM with unknown speed, and one unified pool with 12GB/s Xbox 360 has 22GB GDDR3 and also 10 MB EDRAM.

EDRAM is supposed to help the System if the ram bandwith is too small. Overall I would say the effective ram bandwith on the Wii U is pretty similar to PS3/360.

 

You just contradicited yourself, first you give clear defined specs then backtrack with no reason using an unknown to make a judgement when actually the information you just provided points to the available bandwidth being half of the Xbox 360/PS3.

Which one is it?

No need for needless support, speak your mind ;)



S.T.A.G.E. on 16 April 2013
Zero999 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Zero999 said:
Zkuq said:
Zero999 said:
Zkuq said:
Zero999 said:
Zkuq said:
I'd be more worried about Wii U's other capabilities which don't seem very strong. Also, anything that's not linear is going to be trouble. And there's an even bigger problem: publishers and developers don't seem to be interested in the Wii U and its weak hardware makes it even less appealing because porting games to the Wii U is going to be lots of extra work.

devs didn't seem to mind porting games to ps3, wich was a complete pain in the ass. the games will be on wii u because it won't be a problem to port and devs need the money.

There's a difference: the PS3 actually had the power, even if accessing it was difficult. The difficulty of accessing that power is also the reason many games' PS3 version was inferior. And let me ask you a question: What makes you think devs are going to be porting PS4/Nextbox games to the Wii U when it's going to take huge amounts of work when they're not porting their PS3/X360 games to the Wii U, a more powerful system?

what makes you think it's going to take huge amounts of work? the ps360 games not yet confirmed to wii u were the ones that were probably already in development when wii u became an option and those titles like dark souls 2 and gta5 can still get wii u confirmation. games anounced recently like AC4 and Batman Arkhan Origins were confirmed for wii u immedeately.

What makes me think it's going to take lots of work? Well, the fact that the next Playstation and Xbox are much more powerful and I don't mean only RAM here. And really, two games were announced for the Wii U? What about all the games that weren't? Are you going to count on them being announced on the Wii U later? Are you an optimist perhaps? Also, when was the last time you saw a GTA game on Nintendo's home console? Have you heard devs praise the Wii U? I haven't, but they've been praising PS4 and most likely will do so with the next Xbox as well. And I'm going slightly off-topic here, but there's no chance you're going to see many multiplayer-focused games on the Wii U because Nintendo screwed up their online service yet again.

It's going to be the same as always: Nintendo's console won't get good enough third-party support, and those third-party games that make it to the Wii U are going to fail commercially. Well, not necessarily fail but won't be worth the effort for the publisher.

The nextbox and ps4 ARE NOT much more powerful than wii u, regardless of what you say. those two games were the ones anounced recently, in case you didn't understand, the games that aren't confirmed for wii u were the ones anounced a while back like gta5. and those will probably be on wii u anyway. no gta being on other nintendo consoles is of no relevance to wheter or not gta5 will be on wii u. by the same logic final fantasy and metal gear wouldn't be on xbox360.


Boy you're in for it at E3. Games were scaled down for consoles this gen because thats where the bulk of the money and commercialization was coming from. This gen games will be on par with the level they should be at. No one is scaling things down for Nintendo unless we're dealing with UE3.

about that, why don't you wait till E3 before making bold statements? certainly we'll see nintendo big titles like smash bros, mario kart and mario 3d, maybe zelda/star fox/metroid/, thus seeing the technical potencial of the machine. and there should be at least a glimpse of next generation multiplatform games, wich I'm positive will be on wii u.


I made bold statements because I read up on what third parties were saying last year before the Wii U even launched and today it was proven that Sony listened to their words. I'll make a bet with you right now that the Wii U gets dropped after last gen support gets dropped. 



fillet on 16 April 2013
Captain_Tom said:
TheLastStarFighter said:
Just to clarify, rumors state that 720 will have 4 gig for games and 4 gig for "other stuff", not just the OS. There is a lot of speculation that 720 will be doing lots of things beyond games. The OS could use up 2 gig, while skype, your cable feed and DVR, your always on connection and other features could be using up system memory while 4 gig is blocked off for games. This is all speculation on rumor, of course.

The point is, if games are designed to run on 4 gig of memory, it's not a crazy stretch to say they can run on 1 gig or so. Whether 3rd parties support Nintendo is a whole other matter.


YES IT IS!  4 =/= 1 !  It's like some of you don't even realize how rediculous you sound.  It would take at least 2.5 GB pf Ram to even try to run next gen games.  Not to mention you would need a GPU stronger than a cut down HD 6570 + 1.24 GHz Xbox 360 CPU to even use that much!  Nintendo massively dropped the ball in performance yet again!

You've hit the nail there mate, it's a shame people don't want to listen to rational explanations and prefer to hope like some mother hopes with their child on life support after a road traffic accident, when everyone knows the reality.

Acceptance will come, we only have about 9 months of this charade to go though.... :/



fillet on 16 April 2013
Zero999 said:
richardhutnik said:
Zero999 said:
richardhutnik said:
superchunk said:
Birimbau said:
People give it up! If you like Nintendo exclusives, buy a WiiU, otherwise don't buy it.

If you hope to play multiplats on WiiU next gen, you will get disappointed.

Oooooh you've been to the future. How is it? Do cars fly yet?

Would you rather bet the opposite based on what is being seen now?  EA is backing off.  You also see others backing off also.  Titles that were exclusive for the Wii U don't remain exclusive.  What signs are that things will be different than they are now?  The Wii U didn't even get Tiger Woods this year.

What wii u exclusives became non exclusive? rayman was never said to be exclusive and ninja gaiden was already released on ps360 when wii u got it's version. lego city stories will probably land on other consoles unless it got parcialy funded by nintendo. bayonetta 2 and 101 will remain exclusives for being funded by nintendo.

Thing is that there is next to zero signs of third party support for the Wii U's third-party support situation being strong.  Rayman Legends, which had design for the WIi U in mind, and arguably an upgrade to Rayman Origins (on the other consoles) ended up dropping off.  But there isn't much in movement now of there being third-party exclusives that Nintendo didn't pay for, and longer-term, that the Wii U will be getting much either.  The signs aren't there.  And that is the main point, that the position isn't strong.  If it were strong, would you see thread after thread regarding it on this website?  Nope...

please, tell me of the many third party EXCLUSIVES (and i mean exclusives for sure) the unreleased ps4 and the still imaginary nextbox have. nintendo has a decent amount of payed and partnership exclusives (101, bayonetta2, smtXfe) . and it seems that number will rise a lot.

You actually just listed all of them, and not only that, you didn't give a reason why that number would rise a lot, I would love to hear it?



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Rafux on 16 April 2013
happydolphin said:
Rafux said:


Why even bother when sales will go to the then current gen machines and PC.

I'd like to know where you get your crystal balls from, they're potent. So you've seen the install base of the U 3-4 years from now?


For the time the next Crysis launches PS4 and 720 will have a install base decent enough to warrant a down port from PC and since PS4,720 are shaping up to be quite powerful the PC version won't be as held back as before.

I don't have a crystal ball just common sense, it happened before will happen again with triple AAA titles, expect very down ports for PS360 in the first year but nothing more.



S.T.A.G.E. on 16 April 2013
Rafux said:
happydolphin said:
Rafux said:


Why even bother when sales will go to the then current gen machines and PC.

I'd like to know where you get your crystal balls from, they're potent. So you've seen the install base of the U 3-4 years from now?


For the time the next Crysis launches PS4 and 720 will have a install base decent enough to warrant a down port from PC and since PS4,720 are shaping up to be quite powerful the PC version won't be as held back as before.

I don't have a crystal ball just common sense, it happened before will happen again with triple AAA titles, expect very down ports for PS360 in the first year but nothing more.


Rains from EPic said the exact same thing. 



happydolphin on 16 April 2013
fillet said:
OP...

Yes the PS2 did run most the games the Xbox did with compromises.

Unfortunately those compromises were generally one's that made the game not worth playing.

Splinter Cell series, Max Payne series.

Any game that was ported from the Xbox to the PS2 ended up as one big horrible ropey mess, which is wrong as the PS2 was capable of better than those ports, but it goes to show that porting that way leads to bad results and awful games.

Even if the Xbox 360 only uses 4GB for game use, it's still a massive difference to 1GB.

Video game forums are generally full of optimists (as well as doom mongers), but I'm yet to be convinced by any argument at all by the optimists, and I'm fully behind the doom mongers. The Wii-U is almost definitely screwed by the looks of things and I think we all know it.

I take no pleasure in thinking that mind, it's just the logical conclusion.

Funny how I would be considered an optimist, yet I agree with your post 100%. Goes to show how putting labels on people doesn't always work.

Because as an optimist I can still make sense of things, whether they are correct or not, even though I may be looking at it from the opposite perspective from other users here.



Zero999 on 16 April 2013
fillet said:
Zero999 said:
richardhutnik said:
Zero999 said:
richardhutnik said:
superchunk said:
Birimbau said:
People give it up! If you like Nintendo exclusives, buy a WiiU, otherwise don't buy it.

If you hope to play multiplats on WiiU next gen, you will get disappointed.

Oooooh you've been to the future. How is it? Do cars fly yet?

Would you rather bet the opposite based on what is being seen now?  EA is backing off.  You also see others backing off also.  Titles that were exclusive for the Wii U don't remain exclusive.  What signs are that things will be different than they are now?  The Wii U didn't even get Tiger Woods this year.

What wii u exclusives became non exclusive? rayman was never said to be exclusive and ninja gaiden was already released on ps360 when wii u got it's version. lego city stories will probably land on other consoles unless it got parcialy funded by nintendo. bayonetta 2 and 101 will remain exclusives for being funded by nintendo.

Thing is that there is next to zero signs of third party support for the Wii U's third-party support situation being strong.  Rayman Legends, which had design for the WIi U in mind, and arguably an upgrade to Rayman Origins (on the other consoles) ended up dropping off.  But there isn't much in movement now of there being third-party exclusives that Nintendo didn't pay for, and longer-term, that the Wii U will be getting much either.  The signs aren't there.  And that is the main point, that the position isn't strong.  If it were strong, would you see thread after thread regarding it on this website?  Nope...

please, tell me of the many third party EXCLUSIVES (and i mean exclusives for sure) the unreleased ps4 and the still imaginary nextbox have. nintendo has a decent amount of payed and partnership exclusives (101, bayonetta2, smtXfe) . and it seems that number will rise a lot.

You actually just listed all of them, and not only that, you didn't give a reason why that number would rise a lot, I would love to hear it?

nintendo themselves stated to be investing in partnerships like namco in smash bros and smtXfire emblem. that's enough reason for me to believe that number will rise.



Zero999 on 16 April 2013
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Zero999 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Zero999 said:
Zkuq said:
Zero999 said:
Zkuq said:
Zero999 said:
Zkuq said:
I'd be more worried about Wii U's other capabilities which don't seem very strong. Also, anything that's not linear is going to be trouble. And there's an even bigger problem: publishers and developers don't seem to be interested in the Wii U and its weak hardware makes it even less appealing because porting games to the Wii U is going to be lots of extra work.

devs didn't seem to mind porting games to ps3, wich was a complete pain in the ass. the games will be on wii u because it won't be a problem to port and devs need the money.

There's a difference: the PS3 actually had the power, even if accessing it was difficult. The difficulty of accessing that power is also the reason many games' PS3 version was inferior. And let me ask you a question: What makes you think devs are going to be porting PS4/Nextbox games to the Wii U when it's going to take huge amounts of work when they're not porting their PS3/X360 games to the Wii U, a more powerful system?

what makes you think it's going to take huge amounts of work? the ps360 games not yet confirmed to wii u were the ones that were probably already in development when wii u became an option and those titles like dark souls 2 and gta5 can still get wii u confirmation. games anounced recently like AC4 and Batman Arkhan Origins were confirmed for wii u immedeately.

What makes me think it's going to take lots of work? Well, the fact that the next Playstation and Xbox are much more powerful and I don't mean only RAM here. And really, two games were announced for the Wii U? What about all the games that weren't? Are you going to count on them being announced on the Wii U later? Are you an optimist perhaps? Also, when was the last time you saw a GTA game on Nintendo's home console? Have you heard devs praise the Wii U? I haven't, but they've been praising PS4 and most likely will do so with the next Xbox as well. And I'm going slightly off-topic here, but there's no chance you're going to see many multiplayer-focused games on the Wii U because Nintendo screwed up their online service yet again.

It's going to be the same as always: Nintendo's console won't get good enough third-party support, and those third-party games that make it to the Wii U are going to fail commercially. Well, not necessarily fail but won't be worth the effort for the publisher.

The nextbox and ps4 ARE NOT much more powerful than wii u, regardless of what you say. those two games were the ones anounced recently, in case you didn't understand, the games that aren't confirmed for wii u were the ones anounced a while back like gta5. and those will probably be on wii u anyway. no gta being on other nintendo consoles is of no relevance to wheter or not gta5 will be on wii u. by the same logic final fantasy and metal gear wouldn't be on xbox360.


Boy you're in for it at E3. Games were scaled down for consoles this gen because thats where the bulk of the money and commercialization was coming from. This gen games will be on par with the level they should be at. No one is scaling things down for Nintendo unless we're dealing with UE3.

about that, why don't you wait till E3 before making bold statements? certainly we'll see nintendo big titles like smash bros, mario kart and mario 3d, maybe zelda/star fox/metroid/, thus seeing the technical potencial of the machine. and there should be at least a glimpse of next generation multiplatform games, wich I'm positive will be on wii u.


I made bold statements because I read up on what third parties were saying last year before the Wii U even launched and today it was proven that Sony listened to their words. I'll make a bet with you right now that the Wii U gets dropped after last gen support gets dropped. 

It's a bet then.