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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - These journalists couldn't stop smiling at Nintendo's fate

happydolphin said:

It's my understanding that the sales of 3rd party games on the Wii increased dramatically _after_ Nintendo secured a successful launch thanks primarily to 1st party titles. It is my understanding that 3rd party titles are not needed to push a Nintendo console in its early years.

Here is the yearly breakdown of Wii SW sales. I'm not sure how to get the breakdown by publisher anymore, but here is a start

2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012
8,454,915 74,814,653 177,044,396 181,775,778 182,659,103 135,509,472 72,256,872

If I could subtract the amount Nintendo sold per year, that would help us complete the analysis, but it is my strong understanding that 3rd party games did not push the Wii's success in the early years (2006 to 2009).

I dont even think we can do that anymore, though I think 2007 at least had Nintendo at >50% of SW sold. It was the Years after where 3rd parties caught up. Wii Sports and Wii Play are to thank for that. Still, there was a pretty good 3rd party market on the Wii through 2007.

2007 3rd party releases above 1 Million units (Theres a lot) -

LEGO Star Wars Complete - 5 Million
Guitar Hero 3 - 4.5 Million
Carnival Games - 3.9 Million
Cooking Mama: Cook Off - 2.8 Million
Sonic and the Secret Rings - 2.6 Million
Game Party - 2.4 Million
Resident Evil 4 - 2.1 Million
DDR: Hottest Party - 2 Million
Rayman Raving Rabids 2 - 1.8 Million
High School Musical: SIng It - 1.75 Million
MySims - 1.6 Million
Umbrella Chronicles - 1.5 Million
Smarty Pants - 1.4 Million
Hannah Montana Spotlight - 1.4 Million
EA Playground - 1.2 Million
Disney Princess - 1.2 Million
Rockstar Table Tennis - 1.2 Million
Winter Sports - 1.2 Million
Ben 10 Protector - 1.2 Million
Sims 2 Castaway - 1.2 Million
Need for Speed Prostreet - 1 Million
FIFA 08 - 1 Million
Tiger Woods 08 - 1 Million
Naruto Ninja Revolution - 1 Million

You could possibly add Mario and Sonic at the Olympics, seeing how its partly 3rd party.  We wont though. Obviously, not all of the sales will have come from 2007, but the Wii market in 2007 was strong enough for 3rd parties to bring 24 1 Million selling games to the system.

To show Nintendo's domination in 2007 - 

Nintendo's 2007 efforts include Wii Fit, Super Mario Galaxy and we could use Mario and Sonic here too. Wii Fit was released in December in Japan only and sold less than 1 Million units in 2007. Mario Galaxy was a November release and sold 4.2 Million in 2007. Mario and Sonic was a November release and sold 2.5 Million in 2007.

22.9 Million units of Wii Software in 2007 came from Wii Sports and Wii Play. Mario Party 8 sold 4 Million in 2007. Twilight Princess sold 4 Million in 2007. Links Crossbow Training sold 800k. Super Paper Mario sold 2 Million. WarioWare sold 1.9 Million.

Anyway, I did some maths with other games included and I got 46.1 Million Nintendo software sold in 2007 on Wii out of a total 75 Million. Just under half of that comes from Wii Sports and Wii Play of course, but a stupidly impressive number none-the-less, completely crushing the 50% barrier.

I wont do the same for 08, 09 and 10 because I dont have the time... But you can clearly see that the consumer didnt JUST stick to the Nintendo games. The 3rd party games still sold, and sold well. When Nintendo's dev teams were busy pushing out DS/Wii games, the 3rd parties could take the reigns, all be it not as well as Nintendo could... But they could still hold a steady ship. 



                            

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pezus said:
Th3PANO said:
pezus said:

More than MS and Sony? Just no...

free dev kits, nintendo web framework, you don't need a official office anymore, unity support, treating indie's good as reported, they are doing a fine job. seriously. maybe i was a bit too fast with my statement, but they aren't behind microsoft and sony anymore, that's for sure ;)

If they actually got as much indie support as MS and Sony, I'd want to agree. But they don't, and the gap is large. In terms of indie support it goes like this: Steam/PC>>360>PS3>>WiiU

i never talked about the support, of course, the system is still new. how they are treating them was what i meant, sorry if that wasn't clear enough



The ignorance of internet gaming forum members.

Newsflash...journalists are journalists, gaming journalists just so happen to be working in gaming related media at the time. Enjoying games is obviously a plus to getting the job but they could be telling porkies in the interview. Lots of them will have learned on the job.

They don't care either way, they don't care about gaming, you, nintendo. They don't care if you're dead or alive, they don't care what you had for dinner.

It's business, most internet gaming forums goers don't seem to grasp this.



pezus said:
Th3PANO said:
pezus said:
Th3PANO said:
pezus said:

More than MS and Sony? Just no...

free dev kits, nintendo web framework, you don't need a official office anymore, unity support, treating indie's good as reported, they are doing a fine job. seriously. maybe i was a bit too fast with my statement, but they aren't behind microsoft and sony anymore, that's for sure ;)

If they actually got as much indie support as MS and Sony, I'd want to agree. But they don't, and the gap is large. In terms of indie support it goes like this: Steam/PC>>360>PS3>>WiiU

i never talked about the support, of course, the system is still new. how they are treating them was what i meant, sorry if that wasn't clear enough

I know, but how Nintendo treats indies should translate to support. That's why I mentioned that indie support is lower on Nintendo consoles. WiiU has been announced for a long while now, and indie games usually don't take many years to make. 

sorry, but now you are just ridiculous. 1.) almost every week now there 1-2 indy ames announced for wii u. 2.) you cans ay what u want but xbox 360 and ps 3 are well proven system unlike the wii u



Carl2291 said:

I dont even think we can do that anymore, though I think 2007 at least had Nintendo at >50% of SW sold. It was the Years after where 3rd parties caught up. Wii Sports and Wii Play are to thank for that. Still, there was a pretty good 3rd party market on the Wii through 2007.

2007 3rd party releases above 1 Million units (Theres a lot) -

LEGO Star Wars Complete - 5 Million
Guitar Hero 3 - 4.5 Million
Carnival Games - 3.9 Million
Cooking Mama: Cook Off - 2.8 Million
Sonic and the Secret Rings - 2.6 Million
Game Party - 2.4 Million
Resident Evil 4 - 2.1 Million
DDR: Hottest Party - 2 Million
Rayman Raving Rabids 2 - 1.8 Million
High School Musical: SIng It - 1.75 Million
MySims - 1.6 Million
Umbrella Chronicles - 1.5 Million
Smarty Pants - 1.4 Million
Hannah Montana Spotlight - 1.4 Million
EA Playground - 1.2 Million
Disney Princess - 1.2 Million
Rockstar Table Tennis - 1.2 Million
Winter Sports - 1.2 Million
Ben 10 Protector - 1.2 Million
Sims 2 Castaway - 1.2 Million
Need for Speed Prostreet - 1 Million
FIFA 08 - 1 Million
Tiger Woods 08 - 1 Million
Naruto Ninja Revolution - 1 Million

You could possibly add Mario and Sonic at the Olympics, seeing how its partly 3rd party.  We wont though. Obviously, not all of the sales will have come from 2007, but the Wii market in 2007 was strong enough for 3rd parties to bring 24 1 Million selling games to the system.

To show Nintendo's domination in 2007 - 

Nintendo's 2007 efforts include Wii Fit, Super Mario Galaxy and we could use Mario and Sonic here too. Wii Fit was released in December in Japan only and sold less than 1 Million units in 2007. Mario Galaxy was a November release and sold 4.2 Million in 2007. Mario and Sonic was a November release and sold 2.5 Million in 2007.

22.9 Million units of Wii Software in 2007 came from Wii Sports and Wii Play. Mario Party 8 sold 4 Million in 2007. Twilight Princess sold 4 Million in 2007. Links Crossbow Training sold 800k. Super Paper Mario sold 2 Million. WarioWare sold 1.9 Million.

Anyway, I did some maths with other games included and I got 46.1 Million Nintendo software sold in 2007 on Wii out of a total 75 Million. Just under half of that comes from Wii Sports and Wii Play of course, but a stupidly impressive number none-the-less, completely crushing the 50% barrier.

I wont do the same for 08, 09 and 10 because I dont have the time... But you can clearly see that the consumer didnt JUST stick to the Nintendo games. The 3rd party games still sold, and sold well. When Nintendo's dev teams were busy pushing out DS/Wii games, the 3rd parties could take the reigns, all be it not as well as Nintendo could... But they could still hold a steady ship. 

Those are cool numbers and it's too bad vgchartz doesn't give us the tools to get that on the fly.

I think what your numbers show is that we are both right.

You're right in saying that 3rd party games do fill in the gaps, there's no doubt about it.

I'm right in thinking that Nintendo gets the credit for the success of its console due mostly to Wii Sports, Wii Play, and the other titles that amount to more than 50% of the software sales in 2007. Another factor to consider is that most of those games wouldn't have had the same success were it not for Nintendo's casual flagships (examples are table tennis and cooking mama). In the case of the PS360, it's a very different story, where the flagships are the 3rd party games, which dominate the top 10s.

My understanding is that Nintendo is the driving force of sales of hardware and 3rd party titles on Nintendo home consoles. On the PS360, that role is relegated to 3rd party games. In general, the onus has been on Nintendo to push consoles. Then, once 3rd parties see something to have confidence in, they come in and fill in the gaps, like tiles and cement. I believ that to have been the case for the DS, the case for the Wii, and now the case for the U. It failed for the cube because Nintendo failed at offering compelling 1st party titles.



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pezus said:
Th3PANO said:

i never talked about the support, of course, the system is still new. how they are treating them was what i meant, sorry if that wasn't clear enough

I know, but how Nintendo treats indies should translate to support. That's why I mentioned that indie support is lower on Nintendo consoles. WiiU has been announced for a long while now, and indie games usually don't take many years to make. 

Good relations doesn't always lead to support. Nintendo needs to offer a platform that will make them _money_. If they don't feel like they will make money, Nintendo could offer them the moon and that wouldn't change anything.

@What they said that was wrong (your other post). We've gone over that too. The roundtable wasn't about 3rd party support, it was about end-of-gen HW sales figures predictions. Their take on Nintendo was pure trolling, nothing less, the reasons to discard Nintendo were weak and presumptuous.



happydolphin said:

This gen could very well be the gen where 3rd parties plummet and Nintendo and indie games are the only viable business platforms in the industry.


Agree with this, they are assuming sales will be there for the other consoles and the gaming industry may be in for a big surprise.  Companies are still dropping left and right or being gobbled up by the bigger guys....it's not looking good right now.  

From what I've seen so far, Geoff was the only one being somewhat objectional in the episode.  The laughing part of the vid was somewhat scary...these guys seemed possessed over Nintendo failing.




These guys are just trying to make money, however wrong they might be lol. We should know better by now to actually care about what analysts say about the video game industry since it can be very unpredictable as it's technically still very new. There is no "right" formula yet.



Carl2291 said:
happydolphin said:
Carl2291 said:
Whats really funny is how everyone can see the problem and everyone knows how to fix it...

Other than Nintendo.

Yup and according to these people the solution certainly isn't games or a price reduction, it's simply better graphics and 3rd party support.
That makes it really funny!


Games and 3rd party support are the same thing. The PS3 and 360 are getting games that Nintendo SHOULD be getting on Wii U. From rubbish like Aliens: Colonial Marines to GotY contenders like Tomb Raider.

The console doesnt have the games available to justify the pricetag. Its the PS3 all over again, on a smaller scale.

What worked for the PS3? Rapid cuts, continued 3rd party support and aiming at the loyal PS2 markets (Europe, S. America, Others). Nintendo need to get the console supported and they needed to target what made the Wii so popular - The expanded market.

Point here about how bad the console gaming market is -- and what people are missing.

Tomb Raider had disappointing sales of 3.6M. it essentially cost the S-E CEO his job.

If people need 5M sales for a AAA game to be profitable, what kind of hope is there for this industry?

I would bet on Nintendo more than the other two because Nintendo has shown for the last two genreations that it can produce enough big sellers to keep itself afloat.  

 

Mike from Morgantown



      


I am Mario.


I like to jump around, and would lead a fairly serene and aimless existence if it weren't for my friends always getting into trouble. I love to help out, even when it puts me at risk. I seem to make friends with people who just can't stay out of trouble.

Wii Friend Code: 1624 6601 1126 1492

NNID: Mike_INTV

mike_intellivision said:
Carl2291 said:
happydolphin said:
Carl2291 said:
Whats really funny is how everyone can see the problem and everyone knows how to fix it...

Other than Nintendo.

Yup and according to these people the solution certainly isn't games or a price reduction, it's simply better graphics and 3rd party support.
That makes it really funny!


Games and 3rd party support are the same thing. The PS3 and 360 are getting games that Nintendo SHOULD be getting on Wii U. From rubbish like Aliens: Colonial Marines to GotY contenders like Tomb Raider.

The console doesnt have the games available to justify the pricetag. Its the PS3 all over again, on a smaller scale.

What worked for the PS3? Rapid cuts, continued 3rd party support and aiming at the loyal PS2 markets (Europe, S. America, Others). Nintendo need to get the console supported and they needed to target what made the Wii so popular - The expanded market.

Point here about how bad the console gaming market is -- and what people are missing.

Tomb Raider had disappointing sales of 3.6M. it essentially cost the S-E CEO his job.

If people need 5M sales for a AAA game to be profitable, what kind of hope is there for this industry?

I would bet on Nintendo more than the other two because Nintendo has shown for the last two genreations that it can produce enough big sellers to keep itself afloat.  

 

Mike from Morgantown

Overestimation and basing sales off review scores cost the CEO of SE his job.  I mean when tomb raider was at its peak it did not do those type numbers in that short of time.