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Forums - Gaming - Indie games are mostly trash (Caution, rant)

osed125 on 09 April 2013

I think some people problems are not the games themselves, it's the gaming media (and some 'core' gamers) putting them as the holy grail of modern gaming (with some devs doing the same like the Fez creator), which is annoying. I agree with what Veknoid said, gamers need a healthy video game 'diet', from AAA big budget games, to the small good indie ones.

I do enjoy myself some good indie games, not all of those games have to be original, they are just simple good short games (which you can get for very cheap). 



Nintendo and PC gamer

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oldschoolfool on 09 April 2013

got to get your foot in the door somehow. They bring more variety to the videogames as a whole.



Mummelmann on 09 April 2013

Most of them are, yes. Like most other games are bad, most games just aren't any good.
For me, Bastion, Trine 1 and 2, Terraria, Zafehouse Diaries and Mount & Blade (before retail launch and official publishing) are stellar games in their own right but most Indie titles are shit, I agree.
That's no reason to hate on every Indie title simply for being Indie though.
It is equally annoying as those who love everything Indie simply because its Indie.



theprof00 on 09 April 2013
curl-6 said:

It's trendy these days to love Indie games. After all, they're the underdogs, and who doesn't like to see the underdog triumph over the big corporate giants?

My problem is that they're the underdog in quality as well as budget.

Now, there are good Indie games out there, games like World of Goo, but in my view these are the exception, not the rule.

Indie games for the most part are shallow affairs where a single core gameplay mechanic, usually a one-dimensional and unremarkable, is combined with an unconventional graphical approach. (Often an 8-bit look that seeks to replace effort and creativity with a cheap nostalgia grab) Add to this some pretentious narrative or symbolism designed to snare artsy snobs into proclaiming it some great work of art, when said narrative or symbolism is almost always just broad ideas (if that) thrown out there so that which people who want to see some profound meaning will concoct their own and attribute more depth to the game than it deserves.

Look at Fez; once the rotation trick gets old, we're left with a directionless, mediocre game. Look at Cave Story; beneath its retro approach it has little to offer. In their pursuit of being stylish and meaningful, they commit the ultimate gaming sin; they are boring. 

(You see the same thing in Indie movies, where any wanker with a camera can film some deadly boring, non-eventful half an hour of three working class teenagers doing everyday things and pass it off as some kind of deep existential study of society when it's not worth the film it's recorded on.)

And the nostalgia grab goes beyond 8-bit visuals; in an attempt to gain a similar appeal, they re-introduce flaws that have been fixed since the 1980s; like a lack of direction, cheap difficulty, and unintuitive design, further bringing down the gameplay.

If the same games were released by a big dev, we'd slam them for the rubbish they are. But Indie games get away with being bad because they're held to lower standards. We say, "oh, its just two guys without a big budget, you can't expect Mass Effect." Well, budget and manpower may excuse a lack of technical complexity, but it doesn't excuse a lack of gameplay quality.

Indies get a pass just for being Indie. They and their games are put on a pedestal just for being the "little guy" standing up to the evil "big businesses." Well, until the quality of their games can actually compete with the evil big businesses, I'll hold my cheering.

Or maybe you're just elitest?



Trunkin on 09 April 2013

You were doing well, but then you had to take a shot a Cave Story. Not cool, bro.



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adriane23 on 09 April 2013
radiantshadow92 said:
i fucking hate that we call them indie games. they are just games that dont have a huge budget ok big whoop lol they dont deserve my money just because of that


Lol, I got so much flak for saying that last year, but it's 100% true.



I am the Playstation Avenger.

   

Trunkin on 09 April 2013
RolStoppable said:
Wright said:
I liked OP's argument, until he brought Cave Story. A free game with more than 40 hours of gameplay, a huge sense of exploration and danger, a great story with different endings and, above all else, tough game but fun, and he says that beneath its retro style there's nothing?

What?

I don't recall Cave Story being that long. The game has like five or six areas where you go back and forth a little and the thing is finished in about five hours? Has been a long time since I played it. Never bothered with a second playthrough, because the game didn't live up anywhere close to the praise it got. Everything in it feels like the poor man's version of a good game.

On topic: It would be more correct to say that most indie games that are considered good are trash.

Gah! How dare you!?



richardhutnik on 09 April 2013

One can say "Play NES/SNES", go "real retro" and so on.  One can also end up speaking of playing ONLY AAA big budget stuff.  The reality is that the big budget stuff ends up falling mostly into a narrow range of stuff, which is generally FPS today.  Reason why you look at Indie, and yes most can be considered dregs, is both to find new play mechanics, and also play games who play mechanics aren't really being produced much. Sure, it would be great if say you could get a $40 million AAA produced 2D platformer, but it isn't happening.

End result is, most can be trash (all for most here is over 50% or even over 75%).  What is REALLY needed is a decent guide to find the best of the best of Indie games.  Want new content with either underutilized retro play mechanics, and new play mechanics, you go Indie for the most part.



foodfather on 09 April 2013
AndrewWK said:
foodfather said:

I agree with OP. There are dozens critically claimed indie games released a year it would be very luck for me to enjoy just 2 of these.

I personally never got into the classic XBLA indie thats seemed to have started the new wave of indie game making on home consoles. Games like Braid, Dishwasher, Super meat boy and IMAGWZombiesinit never interest me.

There are some that I do like, like N+, Geometry Wars, Twisted Pixel games, Mark of the Ninja, P.B Winterbottom, Limbo and Journey as these games have more to offer. Recent release like The Cave and Fez don't do it for me. 

I am glad the genre exists, but I am not a big fan.

Mark of The Ninja, Journey and geometry wars are no Indie games. And neither is The Cave. A downloadable game is not allways and inied game


I see what you mean, thinking about it, Geometry Wars and Mark of the Ninja are published by MS. My ignorance just certifies how much I dislike ''indie games''

But I do like some arcade games. 



curl-6 on 10 April 2013
theprof00 said:
curl-6 said:

It's trendy these days to love Indie games. After all, they're the underdogs, and who doesn't like to see the underdog triumph over the big corporate giants?

My problem is that they're the underdog in quality as well as budget.

Now, there are good Indie games out there, games like World of Goo, but in my view these are the exception, not the rule.

Indie games for the most part are shallow affairs where a single core gameplay mechanic, usually a one-dimensional and unremarkable, is combined with an unconventional graphical approach. (Often an 8-bit look that seeks to replace effort and creativity with a cheap nostalgia grab) Add to this some pretentious narrative or symbolism designed to snare artsy snobs into proclaiming it some great work of art, when said narrative or symbolism is almost always just broad ideas (if that) thrown out there so that which people who want to see some profound meaning will concoct their own and attribute more depth to the game than it deserves.

Look at Fez; once the rotation trick gets old, we're left with a directionless, mediocre game. Look at Cave Story; beneath its retro approach it has little to offer. In their pursuit of being stylish and meaningful, they commit the ultimate gaming sin; they are boring. 

(You see the same thing in Indie movies, where any wanker with a camera can film some deadly boring, non-eventful half an hour of three working class teenagers doing everyday things and pass it off as some kind of deep existential study of society when it's not worth the film it's recorded on.)

And the nostalgia grab goes beyond 8-bit visuals; in an attempt to gain a similar appeal, they re-introduce flaws that have been fixed since the 1980s; like a lack of direction, cheap difficulty, and unintuitive design, further bringing down the gameplay.

If the same games were released by a big dev, we'd slam them for the rubbish they are. But Indie games get away with being bad because they're held to lower standards. We say, "oh, its just two guys without a big budget, you can't expect Mass Effect." Well, budget and manpower may excuse a lack of technical complexity, but it doesn't excuse a lack of gameplay quality.

Indies get a pass just for being Indie. They and their games are put on a pedestal just for being the "little guy" standing up to the evil "big businesses." Well, until the quality of their games can actually compete with the evil big businesses, I'll hold my cheering.

Or maybe you're just elitest?

It's elitist to have high standards?