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Forums - Sony Discussion - Killzone developer 'PS4 has no performance bottlenecks'

VGKing on 09 April 2013
walsufnir said:
The eDRAM is transparent like a cache is. So arguing this would mean systems with cache don't have unified ram. And we are talking about a console from 2005, technical aspects changed of course. But yes, it was unified ram. Devs could use it as they wanted. And why do you repeat saying known things about gddr5? We were talking about 360.

 

Just using it as an example to how modern tech designs can be used to virtually eliminate bottlenecks and truly be future-proof, no eDRAM necessary.



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Kynes on 09 April 2013
VGKing said:
...

Ok, so what's the bottleneck inside the PS4? Your link refers to a bottleneck as a compoennt that holds back performance in a system.

Do I really have to keep repeating myself?

It depends on the game. Sometimes it will be the GPU, sometimes the CPU, sometimes the HD... It's probable that one of the biggest limiting factors will be single threaded performance, that will be very low if you compare it to other CPUs single threaded performance, and in the end of the generation, the shading performance in relation to the texturing performance. Things that seem balanced right now can be unbalanced on the future, depending on the way developers tax the system.



walsufnir on 09 April 2013
VGKing said:
walsufnir said:
The eDRAM is transparent like a cache is. So arguing this would mean systems with cache don't have unified ram. And we are talking about a console from 2005, technical aspects changed of course. But yes, it was unified ram. Devs could use it as they wanted. And why do you repeat saying known things about gddr5? We were talking about 360.

 

Just using it as an example to how modern tech designs can be used to virtually eliminate bottlenecks and truly be future-proof, no eDRAM necessary.

Depends on what your decisions are. Saying eDRAM is never necessary is way too much - you always have to consider "system performance" which is more than the sum of the seperate parts. Just because PS4 doesn't use it doesn't mean it isn't necessary. It just seems to be not necessary in PS4.



Kynes on 09 April 2013
CGI-Quality said:
Kynes said:
VGKing said:
...

Ok, so what's the bottleneck inside the PS4? Your link refers to a bottleneck as a compoennt that holds back performance in a system.

Do I really have to keep repeating myself?

It depends on the game. Sometimes it will be the GPU, sometimes the CPU, sometimes the HD... It's probable that one of the biggest limiting factors will be single threaded performance, that will be very low, and in the end of the generation, the shading performance in relation to the texturing performance. Things that seem balanced right now can be unbalanced on the future, depending on the way developers tax the system.

Affirmative. This is why no device can completely avoid it.

At the end we agreed more than dissented.



VGKing on 09 April 2013
CGI-Quality said:
VGKing said:
CGI-Quality said:
VGKing said:
CGI-Quality said:

Yeah, you missed that it wasn't posted in relation to the PS4 ("FFT" = Food For Thought). Again I ask, do you know, for real, what a bottleneck is and what causes it? I'll be waiting.

You posted this in the thread so naturally I'm assuming you think this is related to PS4. 

Yes, I do know what a bottleneck is and what causes it. Using your link as reference. "In simple terms, this refers to a system not being able to optimum levels because one (or more) components are holding it back."

Now, let me ask you, which of the components inside the PS4 is holding it back? I'll be waiting.

No matter how efficient a computational device is constructed, there will always, ALWAYS, A.L.W.A.Y.S., be bottlnecks. For someone who supposedly "gets it", that shouldn't have to be high-chaired and spoon-fed to you.

Ok, so what's the bottleneck inside the PS4? Your link refers to a bottleneck as a compoennt that holds back performance in a system.

Do I really have to keep repeating myself?

No need to repeat yourself (though you can, if you'd like), because, as I said, it's clear you don't get it. Like every other device in this field, the PS4 will run into bottlenecks. You refuse to accept that. Nothing more to debate.

Good day sir.

Of course there is a limit to what can be done with teh PS4 and that will be reached eventually. Is that a bottleneck though? Or just develoeprs being over-ambitious?

Seems to me that you think Guerilla Games has stated that Ps4 defies the laws of computing. What they mean is they built the most efficient console ever. They mean the PS4 won't run into the problems a typical PC will run into since everything in the console is designed to work with each other.



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walsufnir on 09 April 2013
VGKing said:
CGI-Quality said:
VGKing said:
CGI-Quality said:
VGKing said:
CGI-Quality said:

Yeah, you missed that it wasn't posted in relation to the PS4 ("FFT" = Food For Thought). Again I ask, do you know, for real, what a bottleneck is and what causes it? I'll be waiting.

You posted this in the thread so naturally I'm assuming you think this is related to PS4.

Yes, I do know what a bottleneck is and what causes it. Using your link as reference. "In simple terms, this refers to a system not being able to optimum levels because one (or more) components are holding it back."

Now, let me ask you, which of the components inside the PS4 is holding it back? I'll be waiting.

No matter how efficient a computational device is constructed, there will always, ALWAYS, A.L.W.A.Y.S., be bottlnecks. For someone who supposedly "gets it", that shouldn't have to be high-chaired and spoon-fed to you.

Ok, so what's the bottleneck inside the PS4? Your link refers to a bottleneck as a compoennt that holds back performance in a system.

Do I really have to keep repeating myself?

No need to repeat yourself (though you can, if you'd like), because, as I said, it's clear you don't get it. Like every other device in this field, the PS4 will run into bottlenecks. You refuse to accept that. Nothing more to debate.

Good day sir.

Of course there is a limit to what can be done with teh PS4 and that will be reached eventually. Is that a bottleneck though? Or just develoeprs being over-ambitious?

Seems to me that you think Guerilla Games has stated that Ps4 defies the laws of computing. What they mean is they built the most efficient console ever. They mean the PS4 won't run into the problems a typical PC will run into since everything in the console is designed to work with each other.

And this will be measured how? There is no way to prove this or prove the opposite. Every console is designed that everything works together with each other.



VGKing on 09 April 2013
walsufnir said:
VGKing said:
CGI-Quality said:
VGKing said:
CGI-Quality said:
VGKing said:
CGI-Quality said:

Yeah, you missed that it wasn't posted in relation to the PS4 ("FFT" = Food For Thought). Again I ask, do you know, for real, what a bottleneck is and what causes it? I'll be waiting.

You posted this in the thread so naturally I'm assuming you think this is related to PS4.

Yes, I do know what a bottleneck is and what causes it. Using your link as reference. "In simple terms, this refers to a system not being able to optimum levels because one (or more) components are holding it back."

Now, let me ask you, which of the components inside the PS4 is holding it back? I'll be waiting.

No matter how efficient a computational device is constructed, there will always, ALWAYS, A.L.W.A.Y.S., be bottlnecks. For someone who supposedly "gets it", that shouldn't have to be high-chaired and spoon-fed to you.

Ok, so what's the bottleneck inside the PS4? Your link refers to a bottleneck as a compoennt that holds back performance in a system.

Do I really have to keep repeating myself?

No need to repeat yourself (though you can, if you'd like), because, as I said, it's clear you don't get it. Like every other device in this field, the PS4 will run into bottlenecks. You refuse to accept that. Nothing more to debate.

Good day sir.

Of course there is a limit to what can be done with teh PS4 and that will be reached eventually. Is that a bottleneck though? Or just develoeprs being over-ambitious?

Seems to me that you think Guerilla Games has stated that Ps4 defies the laws of computing. What they mean is they built the most efficient console ever. They mean the PS4 won't run into the problems a typical PC will run into since everything in the console is designed to work with each other.

And this will be measured how? There is no way to prove this or prove the opposite. Every console is designed that everything works together with each other.

Tech demos? I don't know if there really is a way to "measure" efficiency but Guerilla Games said no perforance bottlenecks and I have no reason to not believe them. I would love for someone to elaborate on exactly what no performance bottlenecks actually means. Seems like people are only reading the title.

""We've got the right amount of memory, video card; everything's balanced out. It was a very conscious effort to make sure that – with the speed of the memory, the amount of compute units, the speed of the hard drive – there would not be any bottlenecks.""

This is word per word what he said.



walsufnir on 09 April 2013
VGKing said:
walsufnir said:
VGKing said:
CGI-Quality said:
VGKing said:
CGI-Quality said:
VGKing said:
CGI-Quality said:

Yeah, you missed that it wasn't posted in relation to the PS4 ("FFT" = Food For Thought). Again I ask, do you know, for real, what a bottleneck is and what causes it? I'll be waiting.

You posted this in the thread so naturally I'm assuming you think this is related to PS4.

Yes, I do know what a bottleneck is and what causes it. Using your link as reference. "In simple terms, this refers to a system not being able to optimum levels because one (or more) components are holding it back."

Now, let me ask you, which of the components inside the PS4 is holding it back? I'll be waiting.

No matter how efficient a computational device is constructed, there will always, ALWAYS, A.L.W.A.Y.S., be bottlnecks. For someone who supposedly "gets it", that shouldn't have to be high-chaired and spoon-fed to you.

Ok, so what's the bottleneck inside the PS4? Your link refers to a bottleneck as a compoennt that holds back performance in a system.

Do I really have to keep repeating myself?

No need to repeat yourself (though you can, if you'd like), because, as I said, it's clear you don't get it. Like every other device in this field, the PS4 will run into bottlenecks. You refuse to accept that. Nothing more to debate.

Good day sir.

Of course there is a limit to what can be done with teh PS4 and that will be reached eventually. Is that a bottleneck though? Or just develoeprs being over-ambitious?

Seems to me that you think Guerilla Games has stated that Ps4 defies the laws of computing. What they mean is they built the most efficient console ever. They mean the PS4 won't run into the problems a typical PC will run into since everything in the console is designed to work with each other.

And this will be measured how? There is no way to prove this or prove the opposite. Every console is designed that everything works together with each other.

Tech demos? I don't know if there really is a way to "measure" efficiency but Guerilla Games said no perforance bottlenecks and I have no reason to not believe them. I would love for someone to elaborate on exactly what no performance bottlenecks actually means. Seems like this would be the only way to shut people up. What was said in this interview is very vague and some people are obviously misinterpreting it.

""We've got the right amount of memory, video card; everything's balanced out. It was a very conscious effort to make sure that – with the speed of the memory, the amount of compute units, the speed of the hard drive – there would not be any bottlenecks.""

This is word per word what he said.


Or to shut you up... Yes, it is word per word what he said. Usual PR stuff to convince people how awesome the PS4 supposedly is. But as you said: you believe them, others don't. Let's keep it at that.



VGKing on 09 April 2013
walsufnir said:
VGKing said:



Tech demos? I don't know if there really is a way to "measure" efficiency but Guerilla Games said no perforance bottlenecks and I have no reason to not believe them. I would love for someone to elaborate on exactly what no performance bottlenecks actually means. Seems like this would be the only way to shut people up. What was said in this interview is very vague and some people are obviously misinterpreting it.

""We've got the right amount of memory, video card; everything's balanced out. It was a very conscious effort to make sure that – with the speed of the memory, the amount of compute units, the speed of the hard drive – there would not be any bottlenecks.""

This is word per word what he said.


Or to shut you up... Yes, it is word per word what he said. Usual PR stuff to convince people how awesome the PS4 supposedly is. But as you said: you believe them, others don't. Let's keep it at that.

How is this usual PR stuff? He actually goes into detail as to HOW PS4 is efficient and what makes it different from your average PC.



DigitalDevilSummoner on 09 April 2013

nothing new, i just like the view