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Forums - Sony Discussion - Killzone developer 'PS4 has no performance bottlenecks'

Found the PR on the Internets:

 

TOKYO, March 2, 1999 -- Sony Computer Entertainment has developed the Graphics Synthesizer for the next generation PlayStation® incorporating a massively parallel rendering engine that contains a 2,560 bit wide data bus that is 20 times the size of leading PC-based graphics accelerators. Very high pixel fill rates and drawing performance is achieved only through the use of embedded DRAM process technology pioneered by SCE for use in advanced graphics technology.

The current PlayStation introduced the concept of the Graphics Synthesizer via the real-time calculation and rendering of a 3D object. This new GS rendering processor is the ultimate incarnation of this concept – delivering unrivalled graphics performance and capability. The rendering function was enhanced to generate image data that supports NTSC/PAL Television, High Definition Digital TV and VESA output standards. The quality of the resulting screen image is comparable to movie-quality 3D graphics in real time.

In the design of graphics systems, the rendering capability is defined by the memory bandwidth between the pixel engine and the video memory. Conventional systems use external VRAM reached via an off-chip bus that limits the total performance of the system. However in the case of the new GS, there is a 48-Gigabyte memory access bandwidth achieved via the integration of the pixel logic and the video memory on a single high performance chip. This allows orders of magnitude greater pixel fill-rate performance compared to today’s best PC-based graphics accelerators.

When rendering small polygons, the peak drawing capacity is 75 Million polygons per second and the system can render 150 Million particles per second. With this large drawing capability, it is possible to render a movie-quality image. With Z-buffering, textures, lighting and alpha blending (transparency), a sustained rate of 20 Million polygons per second can be drawn continuously.

This new architecture can also execute recursive multi-pass rendering processing and filter operations at a very fast speed without the assistance of the main CPU or main bus access. In the past, this level of real-time performance was only achieved when using very expensive, high performance, dedicated graphics workstations. However, with the design of the new Graphics Synthesizer, this high quality image is now available for in-home computer entertainment applications. This will help accelerate the convergence of movies, music and computer technology into a new form of digital entertainment.



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J_Allard said:

Found the PR on the Internets:

TOKYO, March 2, 1999 --

The quality of the resulting screen image is comparable to movie-quality 3D graphics in real time.


It still doesn't prove that Sony haters didn't take things out of context to discredit Sony.  That's the whole point.  Someone was trying to discredit a developer's claim that the PS4 has no bottleneck by pointing to the "lie" that Sony said that the PS2 was capable of Toy Story graphics in-game.  Sony never said this as NOT found in your quote.  The tech demos that were showcased can be argued to resembled Toy Stoy graphics but never in-game.



They did say it. It's right there in the PR. Real time graphics comparable to movie-quality 3D graphics. So they are not only referring to Toy Story, but any other movie.

I mean, what if LeBron James said this years Heat was the best team ever. And then someone writes an article saying the LeBron thinks the Heat are better than the 96 Bulls. Wouldn't it be silly for someone to sit and defend LeBron saying "oh man he never said 96 Bulls!!"

Yes he did, he said best team ever. Which includes those Bulls. Sony said real time graphics comparable to movies. Which includes Toy Story.

Anyway this is not really on topic so I am going to stop replying but people are right to call out Sony for that, just like you can call MS out for the exact same thing and hell even the same movie franchise.



J_Allard said:
They did say it. It's right there in the PR. Real time graphics comparable to movie-quality 3D graphics. So they are not only referring to Toy Story, but any other movie.

I mean, what if LeBron James said this years Heat was the best team ever. And then someone writes an article saying the LeBron thinks the Heat are better than the 96 Bulls. Wouldn't it be silly for someone to sit and defend LeBron saying "oh man he never said 96 Bulls!!"

Yes he did, he said best team ever. Which includes those Bulls. Sony said real time graphics comparable to movies. Which includes Toy Story.

Anyway this is not really on topic so I am going to stop replying but people are right to call out Sony for that, just like you can call MS out for the exact same thing and hell even the same movie franchise.

You must be reading another press release than the one you just posted because Sony never mentioned in-game graphics. They said "The quality of the resulting screen image..."   They didn't say  "The quality of the resulting gameplay footage..."  Don't tell me I'm going off topic when you gave your fellow Xbox supporter a free pass for going off topic, first.  And I wasn't faulting Microsoft for making the Toy Story graphics claim.  I was only showing that people need to be consistant when making certain claims.  Dont blame me for someone else using an erroneous claim while I used facts to support my point.



LivingMetal said:
J_Allard said:
They did say it. It's right there in the PR. Real time graphics comparable to movie-quality 3D graphics. So they are not only referring to Toy Story, but any other movie.

I mean, what if LeBron James said this years Heat was the best team ever. And then someone writes an article saying the LeBron thinks the Heat are better than the 96 Bulls. Wouldn't it be silly for someone to sit and defend LeBron saying "oh man he never said 96 Bulls!!"

Yes he did, he said best team ever. Which includes those Bulls. Sony said real time graphics comparable to movies. Which includes Toy Story.

Anyway this is not really on topic so I am going to stop replying but people are right to call out Sony for that, just like you can call MS out for the exact same thing and hell even the same movie franchise.

You must be reading another press release than the one you just posted because Sony never mentioned in-game graphics. They said "The quality of the resulting screen image..."   They didn't say  "The quality of the resulting gameplay footage..."  Don't tell me I'm going off topic when you gave your fellow Xbox supporter a free pass for going off topic, first.  And I wasn't faulting Microsoft for making the Toy Story graphics claim.  I was only showing that people need to be consistant when making certain claims.  Dont blame me for someone else using an erroneous claim while I used facts to support my point.

To be honest what exacly do you think the Graphics Synthesizer does if it does not output in-game graphics.  The statement doesn't have to state gameplay graphics if the actual part does that functionality.



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taus90 said:
Didn't GG help design PS4? And so many people confused about what bottle necks GG are talking about.. some are confusing it with peak performance!.. some are considering to bog down the cpu and gpu with inefficient codes and a poorly written engine.

So in simple terms PS4 has what? some where around 1.8 ish teraflops, what GG meant is that none of the components in the system will hold back the other to achieve that performance... best example is PS3, CELL was bottle necked by weak gpu and gpu was further bottled neck by memory pool. But I m sure people will still beat around the bush


basically every console is made for balance, only ps3 was really unbalanced. if sony changed that, ok. but ps1, ps2, xbox (360), gamecube, wii... all were designed for balance. this is nothing new or surprising. thing is: you can repeat what all others before you said with confusing limited performance and bottleneck but that doesn't mean there is no bottleneck. it *always* depends on your code and what you want it to do. simple as that. repeating false arguments doesn't make tham true.



VGKing said:
walsufnir said:
VGKing said:
walsufnir said:
Killzone devs saying PS4 has no bottlenecks? Wow, surprising, first party-devs praising the system :) And of course wrong, every system has bottlenecks, it's just a computer and they all have bottlenecks.

Not just 1st party, all developers are praising the console, even indies. Not 1 negative thing has been said about the console.

I think the console did have a bottleneck and that was the 4GB of GDDR5. Eventually it was going to be an issue which is why they upgraded to 8GB.

It doesn't matter what you think, it of course has bottlenecks, like every other computer. Again, I repeat it just for you again, this doesn't have to be bad but it's the way it is. Like it or not.

NO, IT DOESN'T. Are you calling Guerilla Games liars?

A bottleneck is something that limits something else such as a low amount of RAM limiting the kind of graphics than can be displayed or a weak CPU that limits frame-rate.

The PS4 uses an APU design, everything works together. The GPU/CPU/RAM all play nice with each other. None of these components are too powerful or too weak. It is a balanced system designed to be easy to work with. NO BOTTLENECKS. NOT 1 LIMITNG FACTOR.

Could the PS4 be more powerful? Of course. But power isn't what is being addressed here, efficiency is.

what's this screaming for? people who need to scream have weak arguments. i say it has, you say it hasn't. i have a diploma in computer science, you have your opinion. 

/discussion



LivingMetal said:
J_Allard said:
They did say it. It's right there in the PR. Real time graphics comparable to movie-quality 3D graphics. So they are not only referring to Toy Story, but any other movie.

I mean, what if LeBron James said this years Heat was the best team ever. And then someone writes an article saying the LeBron thinks the Heat are better than the 96 Bulls. Wouldn't it be silly for someone to sit and defend LeBron saying "oh man he never said 96 Bulls!!"

Yes he did, he said best team ever. Which includes those Bulls. Sony said real time graphics comparable to movies. Which includes Toy Story.

Anyway this is not really on topic so I am going to stop replying but people are right to call out Sony for that, just like you can call MS out for the exact same thing and hell even the same movie franchise.

You must be reading another press release than the one you just posted because Sony never mentioned in-game graphics. They said "The quality of the resulting screen image..."   They didn't say  "The quality of the resulting gameplay footage..."  Don't tell me I'm going off topic when you gave your fellow Xbox supporter a free pass for going off topic, first.  And I wasn't faulting Microsoft for making the Toy Story graphics claim.  I was only showing that people need to be consistant when making certain claims.  Dont blame me for someone else using an erroneous claim while I used facts to support my point.

Oh please, it's obvious what they were suggesting, don't try to split hairs. They bullshitted. Like many companies do to promote their products. Not saying that's what happening here, this seems to be more a case of PR talk not to be taken literally; what they seem to mean is that they haven't run into a bottleneck yet.



walsufnir said:
taus90 said:
Didn't GG help design PS4? And so many people confused about what bottle necks GG are talking about.. some are confusing it with peak performance!.. some are considering to bog down the cpu and gpu with inefficient codes and a poorly written engine.

So in simple terms PS4 has what? some where around 1.8 ish teraflops, what GG meant is that none of the components in the system will hold back the other to achieve that performance... best example is PS3, CELL was bottle necked by weak gpu and gpu was further bottled neck by memory pool. But I m sure people will still beat around the bush


basically every console is made for balance, only ps3 was really unbalanced. if sony changed that, ok. but ps1, ps2, xbox (360), gamecube, wii... all were designed for balance. this is nothing new or surprising. thing is: you can repeat what all others before you said with confusing limited performance and bottleneck but that doesn't mean there is no bottleneck. it *always* depends on your code and what you want it to do. simple as that. repeating false arguments doesn't make tham true.

thats what GG is trying to say they developed HW not to have any bottle necks. how developers bottle neck the system is different story altogether.. And if i could remember all sony console was built around a specific component for PS1 it was CD, PS2 EE, GS and PS3 CELL.. for PS4 they have unified approach.

Both PS4 and NXTX will be weaker, the only question is which one will be the weakest between the two!



taus90 said:
walsufnir said:
taus90 said:
Didn't GG help design PS4? And so many people confused about what bottle necks GG are talking about.. some are confusing it with peak performance!.. some are considering to bog down the cpu and gpu with inefficient codes and a poorly written engine.

So in simple terms PS4 has what? some where around 1.8 ish teraflops, what GG meant is that none of the components in the system will hold back the other to achieve that performance... best example is PS3, CELL was bottle necked by weak gpu and gpu was further bottled neck by memory pool. But I m sure people will still beat around the bush


basically every console is made for balance, only ps3 was really unbalanced. if sony changed that, ok. but ps1, ps2, xbox (360), gamecube, wii... all were designed for balance. this is nothing new or surprising. thing is: you can repeat what all others before you said with confusing limited performance and bottleneck but that doesn't mean there is no bottleneck. it *always* depends on your code and what you want it to do. simple as that. repeating false arguments doesn't make tham true.

thats what GG is trying to say they developed HW not to have any bottle necks. how developers bottle neck the system is different story altogether.. And if i could remember all sony console was built around a specific component for PS1 it was CD, PS2 EE, GS and PS3 CELL.. for PS4 they have unified approach.

Both PS4 and NXTX will be weaker, the only question is which one will be the weakest between the two!

Why is this an important question?