Kynes said: walsufnir said: Kynes said: walsufnir said: Kynes said: walsufnir said: Kynes said: It seems that profilers won't be needed on PS4. I'm sure most developers will be very happy about this. no profiling? are you kidding? I'm very serious, if there are no bottlenecks, why would you need profiling? Amirite? ok, if there are no bottlenecks... yes, this would be good for devs :) sadly, they will still (have to) use it ;) (not that profiling wouldn't be fun - optimizing can indeed be fun). And rewarding If you are interested, take a look at this: http://fgiesen.wordpress.com/2013/02/17/optimizing-sw-occlusion-culling-index/ http://fgiesen.wordpress.com/2013/03/10/optimizing-software-occlusion-culling-the-reckoning/ Sometimes a little bit hard to understand but outstanding deep technical knowledge from that guy. I'm not sure but I think it's not the first time that I've seen that blog. Have you linked to it before? I love reading the explanation of different graphic algorithms that Humus do on his blog: http://www.humus.name/

I did it before, yes. I think it was something arguing with ethomaz or VGKing but I didn't get an answer (not surprised, of course).

Thanks for the link, I will take a look at it tomorrow when at work ;) It's sad I do networking stuff nowadays and no coding anymore but I'm still interested.

J_Allard said: LivingMetal said: According to the press at the time, yes.  According to Sony, no.  Sony themselves never claimed this.  Actually Sony PR said you could achieve graphics comparable to movie quality 3D graphics. The press said Toy Story, but seeing how that is a 3D animation movie that was around at the time, it's no different than what Sony themselves said.

You know for a fact that the Sony haters have been using this erroneous "Toy Story graphics" claim as an excuse to claim that Sony lied about the PS2 to the public.  This all came after the media (not Sony) made such claim, and the end result of PS2 games visually did not measure up to Toy Story graphics.  Sony never made the claim that the in-game graphics will be of Toy Story quality.  NEVER.  But haters are going to hate by taking things out of context or not painting the entire story (which is what you attempted to do) to lead to a false assumption.  Besides, it was Microsoft who claimed that the original Xbox was capable of Toy Story graphics which its in-game results did not measure up to as well.  Yet, the Sony haters give Microsoft a pass while sticking to erroneous claims of Sony.  Maybe we shouldn't believe anything Microsoft says because of Toy Story graphics.  Tru story, bro.

lol funny how so many confuse what is actually being said regarding a balanced machine and a bottleneck vs the limitation of the overall machine.

However, I do think this is largely PR and the fact is there will be a bottleneck somewhere. Everything has one. In fact, if PS4 uses a typical HDD, then that is the very first bottleneck as its speeds are greatly inferior to everything else in the system. Everything else will have to wait for the initial read from the HDD or Bluray Drive. Now, if the entire game can be loaded into memory.. then that bottleneck is greatly nullified.

superchunk said: lol funny how so many confuse what is actually being said regarding a balanced machine and a bottleneck vs the limitation of the overall machine. However, I do think this is largely PR and the fact is there will be a bottleneck somewhere. Everything has one. In fact, if PS4 uses a typical HDD, then that is the very first bottleneck as its speeds are greatly inferior to everything else in the system. Everything else will have to wait for the initial read from the HDD or Bluray Drive. Now, if the entire game can be loaded into memory.. then that bottleneck is greatly nullified.

The time when caches are that big will perhaps never come...

walsufnir said: Killzone devs saying PS4 has no bottlenecks? Wow, surprising, first party-devs praising the system :) And of course wrong, every system has bottlenecks, it's just a computer and they all have bottlenecks.

Not just 1st party, all developers are praising the console, even indies. Not 1 negative thing has been said about the console.

I think the console did have a bottleneck and that was the 4GB of GDDR5. Eventually it was going to be an issue which is why they upgraded to 8GB.

VGKing said: walsufnir said: Killzone devs saying PS4 has no bottlenecks? Wow, surprising, first party-devs praising the system :) And of course wrong, every system has bottlenecks, it's just a computer and they all have bottlenecks. Not just 1st party, all developers are praising the console, even indies. Not 1 negative thing has been said about the console. I think the console did have a bottleneck and that was the 4GB of GDDR5. Eventually it was going to be an issue which is why they upgraded to 8GB.

It doesn't matter what you think, it of course has bottlenecks, like every other computer. Again, I repeat it just for you again, this doesn't have to be bad but it's the way it is. Like it or not.

walsufnir said: VGKing said: walsufnir said: Killzone devs saying PS4 has no bottlenecks? Wow, surprising, first party-devs praising the system :) And of course wrong, every system has bottlenecks, it's just a computer and they all have bottlenecks. Not just 1st party, all developers are praising the console, even indies. Not 1 negative thing has been said about the console. I think the console did have a bottleneck and that was the 4GB of GDDR5. Eventually it was going to be an issue which is why they upgraded to 8GB. It doesn't matter what you think, it of course has bottlenecks, like every other computer. Again, I repeat it just for you again, this doesn't have to be bad but it's the way it is. Like it or not.

NO, IT DOESN'T. Are you calling Guerilla Games liars?

A bottleneck is something that limits something else such as a low amount of RAM limiting the kind of graphics than can be displayed or a weak CPU that limits frame-rate.

The PS4 uses an APU design, everything works together. The GPU/CPU/RAM all play nice with each other. None of these components are too powerful or too weak. It is a balanced system designed to be easy to work with. NO BOTTLENECKS. NOT 1 LIMITNG FACTOR.

Could the PS4 be more powerful? Of course. But power isn't what is being addressed here, efficiency is.

PSQuadruple = Teh Nu C3LL

CGI-Quality said: Sure it is, but not without heavy corner-cutting. In fact, only Ridge Racer 7 was, 100%, 1080p @ 60FPS. GT5 and Wipeout HD ran at 1280x1080 and upscaled to 1920x1080. Anyway, this go-around, between the X720 and PS4, I don't think hardware will be the issue. I just think more devs will pusher for higher poly counts over frames.

I think I need to explain better the WipEout HD innovative dynamic framebuffer...

The vertical resolution is fixed in 1080 but the horizontal resolution is variable from 1280 to 1920 always trying to maintain the 60fps... so you will see these resolutions (and any other) in WipEout HD:

1728x1080, 1645x1080, 1600x1080, 1440x1080, etc

There is no fixed resolution... the game really increase and decrease the resolution to always had 60fps.

In fact when the game is running in single-player the resolution never drops to 1280x1080... it is close to 1920x1080 with low drops (depends the speed used in the race... the lowest speed didn't have drop... the highest have more)... what I saw even the drops stay over 1500x1080 in single-payer.... now in MP the game drop more because the fact there are more uses real players in the screen... it is close to 1280x1080 in highest speeds races.

Didn't GG help design PS4? And so many people confused about what bottle necks GG are talking about.. some are confusing it with peak performance!.. some are considering to bog down the cpu and gpu with inefficient codes and a poorly written engine.

So in simple terms PS4 has what? some where around 1.8 ish teraflops, what GG meant is that none of the components in the system will hold back the other to achieve that performance... best example is PS3, CELL was bottle necked by weak gpu and gpu was further bottled neck by memory pool. But I m sure people will still beat around the bush