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Forums - Politics Discussion - Margaret Thatcher RIP.

Lets see what remains of the UK once the beast she created is done with it.



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Squint_Eastwood said:

Sorry to quote this entire thing but I'm on my mobile and can't select individual bit

The2real4myfol said; "Northern Ireland- she pretty much acted like the British Empire did there. She had the army repress the people there which caused widespread violence. It's no wonder the IRA tried to blow her up in Brighton in 1984. Since, Labour devolved power to Northern Ireland in 1999, there has been much more peace." 

Now I'm from Northern Ireland. I don't know whether your comments were made in haste or ignorance but I'm thinking a bit of both. Look up the Easter rising of 1916. Thatcher wasn't there. Or try the rebellion of 1798. Again, no Thatcher. Numerous other rebellions have occurred but alas, no evil Thatcher. Bloody Sunday (1972) is something else that gets placed at Thatchers door by the... Lets call them youth of today. It always gives me pleasure to inform them how she wasn't în power until almost a decadè later.

The IRA despised Thatcher because she said "NO" to their demands. They went on a killing spree and still she refused to budge, even when they threatened her life. She signed the Anglo Irish agreement in 1985, which she later admitted regretting as it caused more problems, but it was the only concession she offered.  Your claims that Labour brought peace to Northern Ireland is laughable.  In 1996 the IRA blew up the Conary Wharf, breaking another ceasefire and hoping to strongarm the British government. Luckily for the IRA, Labour were coming to power in 1997. They formed the Good Friday Agreement which oversaw the release of hundreds of prisoners convicted of paramilitary involvement as a goodwill gesture as well as enabling known IRA terrorists to take seats of power at Stormount Assembly. Gerry Adams is believed to have been activly involved in numerous bombings and has seen the inside of a prison cell. Martin McGuiness, Deputy Minister now, widely acknowlegded as the main man in Londonderry in the 70's. Alex Maskey, another porridge lover whos seen the inside of more prison cells than the average prison warden. Is this the devolved pwer you referred to by Labour? Also, remember the Masserrene Barracks incident that involved the death of British soldiers in 2009? There is still trouble here today, is that the fault of Thatcher? Your Labour goverment didnt have the stomach for a fight with the IRA. They gave more in a heartbeat than Thatcher.

The Falklands, she defended our territory as the people living wanted despite no backing up from Reagan or any non-communist european leaders. It's a shame, Argentina would just forget about it already. It was never theirs.

So, in complete contradiction of yourself, you agree she should have defended the Falklands because "the people living there wanted it." So did the people of Nortern Ireland. And Thatcher fought for it. I don't understand why you think there's a difference. 

Edit; I have been a bit disprespectful to Margaret Thatcher in my post. I meant to say "Lady Thatcher".


There may still be trouble in NI but far less than under Thatcher. Things have steadily improved since the Good Friday agreement. You seem to be disgusted by the fact that Labour "gave" more than Thatcher but the fact is fewer people are dying now. Is that not worth more than principles? Would "a fight with the IRA", as you put it have brought the same relative level of peace? Doubtful.

 

Your comparison between The Falklands and NI is ridiculous. In the Falklands 99% of the population want to remain British citizens. Not so in NI. They're totally, totally different situations and it's not contardictory in the slightest to admire her actions in one and not the other.

 

Finally, I don't really understand your first paragraph listing various historical events. The post you quoted didn't lay the blame for everything the British empire did in Ireland at Thatcher's door, just what happened under her.



man-bear-pig said:
Really really sad news. I've always been a huge supporter of hers.

What's irritating now is that a bunch of imbeciles on my Facebook feed are writing "haha she's dead yeahhh!" or "bye bye thatcher! :D" and if I were to ask 99% of them why they hated her they'd be like "uhhhhhh...". Cretins!


While I haven't gone on my Facebook cheering about her death I think the general outcry is due to people painting a saintly picture of what was for some a rather dispicable person.  I'll respect the intentions of Kowenicki and his thread and say RIP and wish every condolence for her family as it's the right thing to do but it is wrong for people to act like she didn't destroy thousands of people's lives, entire communities and some industries by trying to rewrite history now.  It was nice to see the BBC redressing the balance this morning, had they have done the same yesterday then this backlash would have been lessened somewhat I feel. 

I would add that the above is written by the son of three generations of miners and both my dad and grandad were involved in the strikes, it's very easy to belittle mine and other families hardships when you have no first hand knowledge yourself.



I'm not one to wave incense under the image of a politician, but she wasn't the worst politician in the world.

While the way some people acted on the news of the death disgusted me, it didn't surprise me. Particularly amongst people my age (that is, people too young to know her, or what life was like beforehand). I was told to hate her at school, and the BBC often mocked her, and even my parents couldn't set the facts straight, because they were only kids during her reign, and so didn't really understand what was going on.

As for the miners, their minor rejoice just proves one thing.... she won that battle.



http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/margaret-thatcher-dead-yorkshire-pit-1819380

Im posting that, because its actually my area and the Brooky is actually the main pub in Town.



                            

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SamuelRSmith said:



Of course you have all your facts straight obviously...

Your arrogance is the reason people have acted in such a "disguting" fashion.  You have no concept of the suffering she caused some people.  How can your parents who were only "kids" know less than you who is reading "history" which of course is written by the victors, never the losers.  I was a kid growing up in that era and I assure you I knew what was going on. Stick to praising the good she did and not downplaying the damage she wrought.



I heard years ago that she's supposed to get a state funeral send off, almost like a Royal funeral rather than a politicians.



slowmo said:


Of course you have all your facts straight obviously...

Your arrogance is the reason people have acted in such a "disguting" fashion.  You have no concept of the suffering she caused some people.  How can your parents who were only "kids" know less than you who is reading "history" which of course is written by the victors, never the losers.  I was a kid growing up in that era and I assure you I knew what was going on. Stick to praising the good she did and not downplaying the damage she wrought.


Arrogance? Where?

I didn't praise any "good she did", or downplay any of the "damage she wrought". Except the pot-shot at the miners, if that's what you're referring to.

I clearly said at the start of the post that I'm not going to wave incense under her image.



SamuelRSmith said:
slowmo said:


Of course you have all your facts straight obviously...

Your arrogance is the reason people have acted in such a "disguting" fashion.  You have no concept of the suffering she caused some people.  How can your parents who were only "kids" know less than you who is reading "history" which of course is written by the victors, never the losers.  I was a kid growing up in that era and I assure you I knew what was going on. Stick to praising the good she did and not downplaying the damage she wrought.


Arrogance? Where?

I didn't praise any "good she did", or downplay any of the "damage she wrought". Except the pot-shot at the miners, if that's what you're referring to.

I clearly said at the start of the post that I'm not going to wave incense under her image.

 

That's not how your post read to me and the pot shot at the end was not required.  The arrogance is in stating you know more than people who lived through that period.



Ledreppe said:
I heard years ago that she's supposed to get a state funeral send off, almost like a Royal funeral rather than a politicians.


I'm sure the tories will manage to spend a fortune on celebrating her life somehow.