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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Why Did Xbox 360 Fail in Japan?

theprof00 said:
VGKing said:
I do think domestic fanboyism is an issue, but that alone isn't enough of a reason. A product can be made by any company but it can still appeal to foreign countries. What Microsoft failed to do with the Xbox 360 is explain why they should get the Xbox 360 instead of the PS3.

A Japanese gamer would say, Xbox 360 has Final Fantasy and Resident Evil? Cool but I'm already planning on buying a Playstation 3. Does it have anything else?

So IMO, to a Japanese gamer, the Xbox 360 is the "me too" console.

IMO the negative perception of the 360 wasn't that it was a me too console. The problem was that to an average Japanese gamer, MS strolled in with a too big controller, and said you will buy this even though we have no games that suit your tastes. Oh, you like JRPGs? Solved *throws money at the floor in front of foreign developers*. You like other types of games? You Japanese are never satisfied.

That's what the perception of xbox is. The people who buy xbox over there, are the ones that like american games. Sony treats Japan like it treats america and europe. It makes games tailored to all three areas, and makes sure they concentrate on all of them. MS is just an American focused game developer who buys off what they think is popular. Buying exclusivity only further creates negative view as gamers say, "oh thanks MS for stealing games".

All they need to do is create a Japanese studio, focus on making Japanese games, secure multiplats on most japanese games, offer a slightly smaller rechargeable controller.

Xbox would be a "me too" console if they could secure multiplats, but they've chosen not to do that. They'd rather buy a couple exclusives and leave the rest to luck. McDonalds changed their entire recipe line aside from the BigMac. They're successful in Japan. They changed how the customer is serviced, they changed the menu, they changed the style of the place. It's still extremely McDonald's, but just tailored properly. They didn't go in with all their American menu, then buy off Asahi to be McD exclusive, and have the same upfront direct service.


Funny how you talk about buying things up. What the hells did Sony do early on?



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MB1025 said:


Funny how you talk about buying things up. What the hells did Sony do early on?

I'm assuming that your point (since you don't come out and say it) is that Sony did the same thing. It's too bad that Sony is a Japanese company and has it's own studio and partnerships with Japanese studios, otherwise pointing fingers might've worked for you. Saying "oh sony did the same thing" doesn't make any point, because Sony and MS are not in the same boat. As an international brand moving into Japan, MS needed to do some things, but didn't. Sony, being a Japanese company didn't have to worry about similar constraints.

If that's too hard to understand, imagine that there is a costume party at your house, and I'm showing up as a guest of a friend of yours. You, who is throwing the party, could probably get some help with a costume, or you probably even already have one seeing as how yours is a house that has costume parties. Me, I've only been to parades, so all I have is beads and some funny hats. In order to dress appropriately, I'll have to find out the theme, what people generally wear, and what to bring for alcohol or food. Once I find out, I can decide if beads and hats are appropriate, and if not, just ask my friends for help or buy a costume/make a costume. You on the other hand already know the theme, and have food prepared and know what works because you've done it before.

This is kind of a case in point example. MS showed up to Japan with beads, a saint patty's day hat, and a blowtickler, and thought, when I get there, I'll just borrow a fake beard and pre-game and just bum a couple beers from whoever else is going/not keeping an eye on their beer.



Somini said:
HappyHenry said:
He right they are loyal to domestic companys. xbox will never sell in japan they need to focus on the markets their strongest in.

Isn't that the same reason why the 360 is selling much better than the competition in the US?


I don't think so. The PS2 destroyed the Xbox in American so I think the Xbox 360 did so much better in the USA because MS made sure it had the killer games that gamers couldn't go without. Halo had a lot to do with the rise of Xbox brand, for obvious reasons. But, American gamers grew up on Japanese games. We love Japanese games. We dont' descriminate. The Xbox 360 is not more popular in the US because MS is an American company. It's library of games is just what Americans are looking for. MS went out of their way to secure the games they knew Japanese gamers would want. But the Xbox 360 was ignored by the Japanese for being American, even though they probably all wanted to play Lost Odyssey and the others Japanese exclusives. But they turned their noses up at it for being western dog shit.

Japanese gamers perplexe me. They seem very narrow minded to me. Western gamers play Japanese games, but the Japanese don't play Western games. Why they refuse to try Halo I will never understand.



kain_kusanagi said:
Somini said:
HappyHenry said:
He right they are loyal to domestic companys. xbox will never sell in japan they need to focus on the markets their strongest in.

Isn't that the same reason why the 360 is selling much better than the competition in the US?


I don't think so. The PS2 destroyed the Xbox in American so I think the Xbox 360 did so much better in the USA because MS made sure it had the killer games that gamers couldn't go without. Halo had a lot to do with the rise of Xbox brand, for obvious reasons. But, American gamers grew up on Japanese games. We love Japanese games. We dont' descriminate. The Xbox 360 is not more popular in the US because MS is an American company. It's library of games is just what Americans are looking for. MS went out of their way to secure the games they knew Japanese gamers would want. But the Xbox 360 was ignored by the Japanese for being American, even though they probably all wanted to play Lost Odyssey and the others Japanese exclusives. But they turned their noses up at it for being western dog shit.

Japanese gamers perplexe me. They seem very narrow minded to me. Western gamers play Japanese games, but the Japanese don't play Western games. Why they refuse to try Halo I will never understand.

Xbox 360 didn't just have killer games, it had benefit of Sony making mistake after mistake with the PS3. That allowed the 360 to gain ground in all regions.

As I stated before, MS got games to appeal to Japanese consumers and there were sales boosts in Japan because of it. The only way MS could have sold a lot more consoles in Japan is by continuing to lock exclusives for their hardware. MS could have bought popularity in Japan, but that wouldn't have been financially worthwhile.

Hence, more so than loyalty to hardware. Japanese consumers just go where the games they want are.



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Mr Puggsly said:
kain_kusanagi said:
Somini said:
HappyHenry said:
He right they are loyal to domestic companys. xbox will never sell in japan they need to focus on the markets their strongest in.

Isn't that the same reason why the 360 is selling much better than the competition in the US?


I don't think so. The PS2 destroyed the Xbox in American so I think the Xbox 360 did so much better in the USA because MS made sure it had the killer games that gamers couldn't go without. Halo had a lot to do with the rise of Xbox brand, for obvious reasons. But, American gamers grew up on Japanese games. We love Japanese games. We dont' descriminate. The Xbox 360 is not more popular in the US because MS is an American company. It's library of games is just what Americans are looking for. MS went out of their way to secure the games they knew Japanese gamers would want. But the Xbox 360 was ignored by the Japanese for being American, even though they probably all wanted to play Lost Odyssey and the others Japanese exclusives. But they turned their noses up at it for being western dog shit.

Japanese gamers perplexe me. They seem very narrow minded to me. Western gamers play Japanese games, but the Japanese don't play Western games. Why they refuse to try Halo I will never understand.

Xbox 360 didn't just have killer games, it had benefit of Sony making mistake after mistake with the PS3. That allowed the 360 to gain ground in all regions.

As I stated before, MS got games to appeal to Japanese consumers and there were sales boosts in Japan because of it. The only way MS could have sold a lot more consoles in Japan is by continuing to lock exclusives for their hardware. MS could have bought popularity in Japan, but that wouldn't have been financially worthwhile.

Hence, more so than loyalty to hardware. Japanese consumers just go where the games they want are.

I have a college buddy who's native Japanese and lives near Tokyo. I asked him once why Japanese gamers don't play Xbox. He told me straight up that the Japanese pretty much consider western games to be garbage. He said video game stores stock western games in bins labeled "foriegn shit".

Can you imagine that happening in the USA? Of course not. We love Japanese games as well as games from any country. How is it that western games like Halo can be so popular in evey part of the world EXCEPT Japan? While in college my Japanese friend played Halo with us. He wasn't good at first but he got better and loved it. But he was the type that wanted to try American things and see as much of the USA before going back. From what he's told me I don't think he represents the majority of Japan. The majority seem to agree with how Keiji Inafune so gently puts it. They don't want it if it isn't Japanese. Hopefully one day they will open their hearts to the amazing games that they are missing. Untill then MS will just have to bite the bullet and continue to futily support the Japanese market so they can secure the best Japanese games for the rest of the world.



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kain_kusanagi said:

I have a college buddy who's native Japanese and lives near Tokyo. I asked him once why Japanese gamers don't play Xbox. He told me straight up that the Japanese pretty much consider western games to be garbage. He said video game stores stock western games in bins labeled "foriegn shit".

Can you imagine that happening in the USA? Of course not. We love Japanese games as well as games from any country. How is it that western games like Halo can be so popular in evey part of the world EXCEPT Japan? While in college my Japanese friend played Halo with us. He wasn't good at first but he got better and loved it. But he was the type that wanted to try American things and see as much of the USA before going back. From what he's told me I don't think he represents the majority of Japan. The majority seem to agree with how Keiji Inafune so gently puts it. They don't want it if it isn't Japanese. Hopefully one day they will open their hearts to the amazing games that they are missing. Untill then MS will just have to bite the bullet and continue to futily support the Japanese market so they can secure the best Japanese games for the rest of the world.

So, in your opinion, Japanese did not support Xbox because the xbox did not have enough japanese games, right? So then what's so perplexing about Japanese gamers? Think about it like football and soccer. Football sells better in American and Soccer in Europe. Why would you put a console out in Europe and expect people to buy football games? Why would you even think this is narrow minded?

Tell me, do you play games like monster-hunter, bullet-hell games like ikaruga or perfect cherry blossom, dragon quest, final fantasy, hot shots games? How about visual novels? Little Busters? Tsukihime? Touhou? What about DBZ, One Piece, Pokemon, Animal Crossing? Do you play any of these?

EDIT: Just noticed this line "We love Japanese games as well as games from any country". Umm no. We like what suits our TASTE - no matter where it's from.



theprof00 said:
kain_kusanagi said:

I have a college buddy who's native Japanese and lives near Tokyo. I asked him once why Japanese gamers don't play Xbox. He told me straight up that the Japanese pretty much consider western games to be garbage. He said video game stores stock western games in bins labeled "foriegn shit".

Can you imagine that happening in the USA? Of course not. We love Japanese games as well as games from any country. How is it that western games like Halo can be so popular in evey part of the world EXCEPT Japan? While in college my Japanese friend played Halo with us. He wasn't good at first but he got better and loved it. But he was the type that wanted to try American things and see as much of the USA before going back. From what he's told me I don't think he represents the majority of Japan. The majority seem to agree with how Keiji Inafune so gently puts it. They don't want it if it isn't Japanese. Hopefully one day they will open their hearts to the amazing games that they are missing. Untill then MS will just have to bite the bullet and continue to futily support the Japanese market so they can secure the best Japanese games for the rest of the world.

So, in your opinion, Japanese did not support Xbox because the xbox did not have enough japanese games, right? So then what's so perplexing about Japanese gamers? Think about it like football and soccer. Football sells better in American and Soccer in Europe. Why would you put a console out in Europe and expect people to buy football games? Why would you even think this is narrow minded?

Tell me, do you play games like monster-hunter, bullet-hell games like ikaruga or perfect cherry blossom, dragon quest, final fantasy, hot shots games? How about visual novels? Little Busters? Tsukihime? Touhou? What about DBZ, One Piece, Pokemon, Animal Crossing? Do you play any of these?

EDIT: Just noticed this line "We love Japanese games as well as games from any country". Umm no. We like what suits our TASTE - no matter where it's from.

No, what I find perplexing is that the Japanese are the only major gaming market that turns their nose at the great games that the rest of the world loves.

For your information I do like some of the games you listed as well as anime and manga. I own Ikaruga on Dreamcast and several Final Fantasy games as well as countless other Japanese published games. I have yet to play Monster Hunter, but I plan to get one to try out. It looks cool. I'd say I probalby own more Japanese developed games and other media than western stuff, with the exception of Hollywood films. I own more manga than comics. I own more anime than cartoons. I own more Japanese games than Western games.

My Japanese friend and Keiji Inafune seem to agree that you will have a hard time finding a Japanese gamer counterpart to a gamer like me. For pete's sake, the dump awsome games like Halo and Assassin's Creed into bins labled "foreign shit".

Of course there is going to be differences in taste. But good games should sell anywhere gamers guy good games. Japanese gamers don't want it if it's foriegn, they don't give it a chance. There's a difference between playing a game and not caring for it and refusing to play it because it's foriegn.



kain_kusanagi said:
theprof00 said:
kain_kusanagi said:

I have a college buddy who's native Japanese and lives near Tokyo. I asked him once why Japanese gamers don't play Xbox. He told me straight up that the Japanese pretty much consider western games to be garbage. He said video game stores stock western games in bins labeled "foriegn shit".

Can you imagine that happening in the USA? Of course not. We love Japanese games as well as games from any country. How is it that western games like Halo can be so popular in evey part of the world EXCEPT Japan? While in college my Japanese friend played Halo with us. He wasn't good at first but he got better and loved it. But he was the type that wanted to try American things and see as much of the USA before going back. From what he's told me I don't think he represents the majority of Japan. The majority seem to agree with how Keiji Inafune so gently puts it. They don't want it if it isn't Japanese. Hopefully one day they will open their hearts to the amazing games that they are missing. Untill then MS will just have to bite the bullet and continue to futily support the Japanese market so they can secure the best Japanese games for the rest of the world.

So, in your opinion, Japanese did not support Xbox because the xbox did not have enough japanese games, right? So then what's so perplexing about Japanese gamers? Think about it like football and soccer. Football sells better in American and Soccer in Europe. Why would you put a console out in Europe and expect people to buy football games? Why would you even think this is narrow minded?

Tell me, do you play games like monster-hunter, bullet-hell games like ikaruga or perfect cherry blossom, dragon quest, final fantasy, hot shots games? How about visual novels? Little Busters? Tsukihime? Touhou? What about DBZ, One Piece, Pokemon, Animal Crossing? Do you play any of these?

EDIT: Just noticed this line "We love Japanese games as well as games from any country". Umm no. We like what suits our TASTE - no matter where it's from.

No, what I find perplexing is that the Japanese are the only major gaming market that turns their nose at the great games that the rest of the world loves.

For your information I do like some of the games you listed as well as anime and manga. I own Ikaruga on Dreamcast and several Final Fantasy games as well as countless other Japanese published games. I have yet to play Monster Hunter, but I plan to get one to try out. It looks cool. I'd say I probalby own more Japanese developed games and other media than western stuff, with the exception of Hollywood films. I own more manga than comics. I own more anime than cartoons. I own more Japanese games than Western games.

My Japanese friend and Keiji Inafune seem to agree that you will have a hard time finding a Japanese gamer counterpart to a gamer like me. For pete's sake, the dump awsome games like Halo and Assassin's Creed into bins labled "foreign shit".

Of course there is going to be differences in taste. But good games should sell anywhere gamers guy good games. Japanese gamers don't want it if it's foriegn, they don't give it a chance. There's a difference between playing a game and not caring for it and refusing to play it because it's foriegn.

http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/blog.php?b=652

It's simply not true. Maybe in one or two locally owned stores, yes, but likely those stores are just pandering, not setting the tone.

As far as getting the Japanese to like western games, yes, that will be a problem, because they have different taste. Again, look back at Fifa in America. .7m compared to 5m in Europe. Fifa is an amazing franchise. Who do I blame here? Nobody, because there is nobody to blame and it's onyl the culture that is not really into soccer.

As for why we enjoy Japanese games, maybe that just says more about the Japanese ability to reach multiple markets than it does about our ability to accept foreign products. Many foreign companies enjoy success in Japan, but they really have to tailor the product.

Edit: also, the word you're likely talking about is "gaikokumono" which just means foreign product, though in English we would say shit, because the translation is "stuff".



ethomaz said:
The same reason 360 sells better in US lol

The 360 has only sold a little over a million Japan and the PS3, Wii have sold millions in the US so no, its not the same.



theprof00 said:
kain_kusanagi said:
theprof00 said:
kain_kusanagi said:

I have a college buddy who's native Japanese and lives near Tokyo. I asked him once why Japanese gamers don't play Xbox. He told me straight up that the Japanese pretty much consider western games to be garbage. He said video game stores stock western games in bins labeled "foriegn shit".

Can you imagine that happening in the USA? Of course not. We love Japanese games as well as games from any country. How is it that western games like Halo can be so popular in evey part of the world EXCEPT Japan? While in college my Japanese friend played Halo with us. He wasn't good at first but he got better and loved it. But he was the type that wanted to try American things and see as much of the USA before going back. From what he's told me I don't think he represents the majority of Japan. The majority seem to agree with how Keiji Inafune so gently puts it. They don't want it if it isn't Japanese. Hopefully one day they will open their hearts to the amazing games that they are missing. Untill then MS will just have to bite the bullet and continue to futily support the Japanese market so they can secure the best Japanese games for the rest of the world.

So, in your opinion, Japanese did not support Xbox because the xbox did not have enough japanese games, right? So then what's so perplexing about Japanese gamers? Think about it like football and soccer. Football sells better in American and Soccer in Europe. Why would you put a console out in Europe and expect people to buy football games? Why would you even think this is narrow minded?

Tell me, do you play games like monster-hunter, bullet-hell games like ikaruga or perfect cherry blossom, dragon quest, final fantasy, hot shots games? How about visual novels? Little Busters? Tsukihime? Touhou? What about DBZ, One Piece, Pokemon, Animal Crossing? Do you play any of these?

EDIT: Just noticed this line "We love Japanese games as well as games from any country". Umm no. We like what suits our TASTE - no matter where it's from.

No, what I find perplexing is that the Japanese are the only major gaming market that turns their nose at the great games that the rest of the world loves.

For your information I do like some of the games you listed as well as anime and manga. I own Ikaruga on Dreamcast and several Final Fantasy games as well as countless other Japanese published games. I have yet to play Monster Hunter, but I plan to get one to try out. It looks cool. I'd say I probalby own more Japanese developed games and other media than western stuff, with the exception of Hollywood films. I own more manga than comics. I own more anime than cartoons. I own more Japanese games than Western games.

My Japanese friend and Keiji Inafune seem to agree that you will have a hard time finding a Japanese gamer counterpart to a gamer like me. For pete's sake, the dump awsome games like Halo and Assassin's Creed into bins labled "foreign shit".

Of course there is going to be differences in taste. But good games should sell anywhere gamers guy good games. Japanese gamers don't want it if it's foriegn, they don't give it a chance. There's a difference between playing a game and not caring for it and refusing to play it because it's foriegn.

http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/blog.php?b=652

It's simply not true. Maybe in one or two locally owned stores, yes, but likely those stores are just pandering, not setting the tone.

As far as getting the Japanese to like western games, yes, that will be a problem, because they have different taste. Again, look back at Fifa in America. .7m compared to 5m in Europe. Fifa is an amazing franchise. Who do I blame here? Nobody, because there is nobody to blame and it's onyl the culture that is not really into soccer.

As for why we enjoy Japanese games, maybe that just says more about the Japanese ability to reach multiple markets than it does about our ability to accept foreign products. Many foreign companies enjoy success in Japan, but they really have to tailor the product.

Edit: also, the word you're likely talking about is "gaikokumono" which just means foreign product, though in English we would say shit, because the translation is "stuff".


Yet that's is not how my Japanese college friend describes it.

Your sports analogy isn't as accuret many would assume. Every sport has it's region. Soccer is more popular outside of the USA, but it really is the only sport that has world wide fanship. Most sports are as tied to their culture of origin as brands of beer. But we are talking about a ball game. Reduce soccor down to it's basics and it sounds a lot like football's basics. Get the ball to the other side of the field. In that regard sports games are popular everywhere.

Video games should appeal universaly in Japan like they do in the rest of the world. Why are the Japanese the only ones that don't want to play the rest of the world's games? My Japanese friend and the respected gaming industry veteran Keiji Inafune agree. The Japanese don't want to play foriegn games because they only want stuff made in Japan.

It took a decade for Japan to catch on to what the rest of world was enjoying in Apple's iPhone. But it finaly happened. Maybe the Nextbox will be able to do what Apple finaly did. I don't know. The Japanese have to be willing to try something new and keep an open mind to having fun regardless of the products country of origin. Keiji Inafune seems to think that it will be a difficult mountain to climb even though he likes the Xbox and enjoyed western games himself. He knows Japanese culture and he believes they aren't buying the stellar western games because they aren't Japanese.