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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Why Did Xbox 360 Fail in Japan?

VGKing on 02 April 2013
theprof00 said:
VGKing said:
I do think domestic fanboyism is an issue, but that alone isn't enough of a reason. A product can be made by any company but it can still appeal to foreign countries. What Microsoft failed to do with the Xbox 360 is explain why they should get the Xbox 360 instead of the PS3.

A Japanese gamer would say, Xbox 360 has Final Fantasy and Resident Evil? Cool but I'm already planning on buying a Playstation 3. Does it have anything else?

So IMO, to a Japanese gamer, the Xbox 360 is the "me too" console.

IMO the negative perception of the 360 wasn't that it was a me too console. The problem was that to an average Japanese gamer, MS strolled in with a too big controller, and said you will buy this even though we have no games that suit your tastes. Oh, you like JRPGs? Solved *throws money at the floor in front of foreign developers*. You like other types of games? You Japanese are never satisfied.

That's what the perception of xbox is. The people who buy xbox over there, are the ones that like american games. Sony treats Japan like it treats america and europe. It makes games tailored to all three areas, and makes sure they concentrate on all of them. MS is just an American focused game developer who buys off what they think is popular. Buying exclusivity only further creates negative view as gamers say, "oh thanks MS for stealing games".

All they need to do is create a Japanese studio, focus on making Japanese games, secure multiplats on most japanese games, offer a slightly smaller rechargeable controller.

Xbox would be a "me too" console if they could secure multiplats, but they've chosen not to do that. They'd rather buy a couple exclusives and leave the rest to luck. McDonalds changed their entire recipe line aside from the BigMac. They're successful in Japan. They changed how the customer is serviced, they changed the menu, they changed the style of the place. It's still extremely McDonald's, but just tailored properly. They didn't go in with all their American menu, then buy off Asahi to be McD exclusive, and have the same upfront direct service.

But does PS3 have these exclusive Japanese games? To my knowledge, Sony doesn't really have any notable Japanese 1st party stuff. 



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theprof00 on 02 April 2013
VGKing said:
theprof00 said:
VGKing said:
I do think domestic fanboyism is an issue, but that alone isn't enough of a reason. A product can be made by any company but it can still appeal to foreign countries. What Microsoft failed to do with the Xbox 360 is explain why they should get the Xbox 360 instead of the PS3.

A Japanese gamer would say, Xbox 360 has Final Fantasy and Resident Evil? Cool but I'm already planning on buying a Playstation 3. Does it have anything else?

So IMO, to a Japanese gamer, the Xbox 360 is the "me too" console.

IMO the negative perception of the 360 wasn't that it was a me too console. The problem was that to an average Japanese gamer, MS strolled in with a too big controller, and said you will buy this even though we have no games that suit your tastes. Oh, you like JRPGs? Solved *throws money at the floor in front of foreign developers*. You like other types of games? You Japanese are never satisfied.

That's what the perception of xbox is. The people who buy xbox over there, are the ones that like american games. Sony treats Japan like it treats america and europe. It makes games tailored to all three areas, and makes sure they concentrate on all of them. MS is just an American focused game developer who buys off what they think is popular. Buying exclusivity only further creates negative view as gamers say, "oh thanks MS for stealing games".

All they need to do is create a Japanese studio, focus on making Japanese games, secure multiplats on most japanese games, offer a slightly smaller rechargeable controller.

Xbox would be a "me too" console if they could secure multiplats, but they've chosen not to do that. They'd rather buy a couple exclusives and leave the rest to luck. McDonalds changed their entire recipe line aside from the BigMac. They're successful in Japan. They changed how the customer is serviced, they changed the menu, they changed the style of the place. It's still extremely McDonald's, but just tailored properly. They didn't go in with all their American menu, then buy off Asahi to be McD exclusive, and have the same upfront direct service.

But does PS3 have these exclusive Japanese games? To my knowledge, Sony doesn't really have any notable Japanese 1st party stuff. 

Sony doesn't need to. Their presence is so strong that third parties make them exclusives constantly because it's cheap and easy. And IIRC, Sony does indeed help out third parties who are exclusive. There are literally hundreds of games that the american market never sees because it's considered too Japanese. These games end up on playstation and never leave the country. 360 has none of those games, and MS will never have any of those games until they treat their console like a Japanese product. The MS mindset is that Japanese will buy us because we are American, where the Japanese mindset is 'we will buy what appeals to us'. American DOES appeal to them, but if all you have is American, then you're going to be a niche console, which is exactly what happened.



theprof00 on 02 April 2013
DirtyP2002 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
HappyHenry said:
He right they are loyal to domestic companys. xbox will never sell in japan they need to focus on the markets their strongest in.


The Xbox was focused on offering the same exact thing the PS3 offered. In Japan if an outsider company tries to do that in any occurance they lose. If they change it up and do somethhing different then they pique the interest of the Japanese. 


MS copies the PS3 even when they launch first. Awesome.

STAGE is incorrect. They did nothing to copy ps3 (or ps2 for that matter) other than buying exclusivity for a couple titles, that forumla does not make a playstation.



SENTIENT6 on 02 April 2013

It's got nothing to do with Xbox being non japanese, Apple products and other Western products sell like hotcakes there. There is nothing on xbox that appeals to the japanese audience.

 

Sony makes games tailored to geographic areas and has a lot of variety, the xbox is clearly a console and company that is focused strictly on it's western roots.



theprof00 on 02 April 2013
VGKing said:

But does PS3 have these exclusive Japanese games? To my knowledge, Sony doesn't really have any notable Japanese 1st party stuff. 

Oh and also, SCEJ



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S.T.A.G.E. on 02 April 2013
theprof00 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
theprof00 said:
Poor international adaptation all around.
No Japan-based studio.
No Japan centric first party games.
Only good jrpgs were new IPs which typically don't sell.
ONLY Jprgs for the eastern market, when Japan has many genres that we don't see in the west.
No investing in Japanese branding or marketing (or should I say effective brand/marketing)
No alternate sized controller.

It's really not hard to effectively adapt to another culture, but it requires changes that MS didn't see fit to make.
Nintendo and Sony are very Japanese systems that sell well worldwide because the Japanese doesn't get in the way. Xbox is a very American console, and Japan doesn't like it because the American gets in the way.


When they see the Xbox 360, they think American PS3. End of story. Theres a lot of product nationalism in Japan. They essentially offer the exact same things and the only company that stands out for itself is Nintendo, so they have no need to support the outside. Microsoft gives them no reason to. Its not like westerners who pick apart little things to differentiate one console from another. If you don't bring something new to the table with the Japanese they dont care. Essentially speaking, if they want to break down the walls of Japan, stop making a safe console, be more like Nintendo (not exactly like them but think outside the box).

That's not really true though, because the Japanese love foreign things and culture. It just has to be presented correctly. The japanese love english tea and fashion companies. They love Dolce and Gabana, they love McDonalds, they love Apple, they love T.G.I. Fridays, and they love Hard Rock Cafe.

Japan needs dedication. Like I said, MS has no Japanese developer studio. They make no Japan centric games. Like someone said, a peeping game for Kinect...the problem is that Japan sees xbox as an arrogant company, and for the most part, they are, in terms of the xbox product. Windows sells fine over there. The problem is they didn't try hard enough. Just throwing money at the problem does do anything. You need to be invested.


You're saying what I am saying isnt true but you're using TGI Fridays, McDonalds, Apple and others as examples. These are people who have been doing their own american centric thing for decades now.  They might have competition but they are still at the forefront.



VGKing on 02 April 2013
theprof00 said:
VGKing said:
theprof00 said:
VGKing said:
I do think domestic fanboyism is an issue, but that alone isn't enough of a reason. A product can be made by any company but it can still appeal to foreign countries. What Microsoft failed to do with the Xbox 360 is explain why they should get the Xbox 360 instead of the PS3.

A Japanese gamer would say, Xbox 360 has Final Fantasy and Resident Evil? Cool but I'm already planning on buying a Playstation 3. Does it have anything else?

So IMO, to a Japanese gamer, the Xbox 360 is the "me too" console.

IMO the negative perception of the 360 wasn't that it was a me too console. The problem was that to an average Japanese gamer, MS strolled in with a too big controller, and said you will buy this even though we have no games that suit your tastes. Oh, you like JRPGs? Solved *throws money at the floor in front of foreign developers*. You like other types of games? You Japanese are never satisfied.

That's what the perception of xbox is. The people who buy xbox over there, are the ones that like american games. Sony treats Japan like it treats america and europe. It makes games tailored to all three areas, and makes sure they concentrate on all of them. MS is just an American focused game developer who buys off what they think is popular. Buying exclusivity only further creates negative view as gamers say, "oh thanks MS for stealing games".

All they need to do is create a Japanese studio, focus on making Japanese games, secure multiplats on most japanese games, offer a slightly smaller rechargeable controller.

Xbox would be a "me too" console if they could secure multiplats, but they've chosen not to do that. They'd rather buy a couple exclusives and leave the rest to luck. McDonalds changed their entire recipe line aside from the BigMac. They're successful in Japan. They changed how the customer is serviced, they changed the menu, they changed the style of the place. It's still extremely McDonald's, but just tailored properly. They didn't go in with all their American menu, then buy off Asahi to be McD exclusive, and have the same upfront direct service.

But does PS3 have these exclusive Japanese games? To my knowledge, Sony doesn't really have any notable Japanese 1st party stuff. 

Sony doesn't need to. Their presence is so strong that third parties make them exclusives constantly because it's cheap and easy. And IIRC, Sony does indeed help out third parties who are exclusive. There are literally hundreds of games that the american market never sees because it's considered too Japanese. These games end up on playstation and never leave the country. 360 has none of those games, and MS will never have any of those games until they treat their console like a Japanese product. The MS mindset is that Japanese will buy us because we are American, where the Japanese mindset is 'we will buy what appeals to us'. American DOES appeal to them, but if all you have is American, then you're going to be a niche console, which is exactly what happened.

That makes sense.



theprof00 on 02 April 2013
S.T.A.G.E. said:
theprof00 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
theprof00 said:
Poor international adaptation all around.
No Japan-based studio.
No Japan centric first party games.
Only good jrpgs were new IPs which typically don't sell.
ONLY Jprgs for the eastern market, when Japan has many genres that we don't see in the west.
No investing in Japanese branding or marketing (or should I say effective brand/marketing)
No alternate sized controller.

It's really not hard to effectively adapt to another culture, but it requires changes that MS didn't see fit to make.
Nintendo and Sony are very Japanese systems that sell well worldwide because the Japanese doesn't get in the way. Xbox is a very American console, and Japan doesn't like it because the American gets in the way.


When they see the Xbox 360, they think American PS3. End of story. Theres a lot of product nationalism in Japan. They essentially offer the exact same things and the only company that stands out for itself is Nintendo, so they have no need to support the outside. Microsoft gives them no reason to. Its not like westerners who pick apart little things to differentiate one console from another. If you don't bring something new to the table with the Japanese they dont care. Essentially speaking, if they want to break down the walls of Japan, stop making a safe console, be more like Nintendo (not exactly like them but think outside the box).

That's not really true though, because the Japanese love foreign things and culture. It just has to be presented correctly. The japanese love english tea and fashion companies. They love Dolce and Gabana, they love McDonalds, they love Apple, they love T.G.I. Fridays, and they love Hard Rock Cafe.

Japan needs dedication. Like I said, MS has no Japanese developer studio. They make no Japan centric games. Like someone said, a peeping game for Kinect...the problem is that Japan sees xbox as an arrogant company, and for the most part, they are, in terms of the xbox product. Windows sells fine over there. The problem is they didn't try hard enough. Just throwing money at the problem does do anything. You need to be invested.


You're saying what I am saying isnt true but you're using TGI Fridays, McDonalds, Apple and others as examples. These are people who have been doing their own american centric thing for decades now.  They might have competition but they are still at the forefront.

No they are not.
TGIF and McDonalds had huge drastic changes. Apple stores aren't really considered an American kind of store, and they just work over there, as do ipods.

McDonalds actualy did have a lot of growing pains if you'd care to read up on it. They went over there with all their same food and service and had like two new items and Japanese shunned them. More and more they changed the menu, changed all the ingredients, how they serve the customer, and everything, like recipes.

Look at this:
http://inventorspot.com/articles/mcdonalds_japan_goes_nobrand_with_quarter_pounder_shops_19505

Look how hard McDonalds is willing to try.




Exia on 02 April 2013

I believe the first impression was very important for xbox to at least try to make a dent in the market.

When your initial launch models have 33% failure rate!
The japanese are so good with quality control after WW2, there was a term giving to their legendary quality: Kaizen — 改善, Japanese for change for the better; the common English term is continuous improvement.
That not going to bold well with the japanese for sure.

Microsoft also money hatting timed-exclusivity jrpgs to their system.
This sends 2 message. i) We are buying into the market.
ii) We want to use this as a delay tactic against the ps3.
Not only do they use money to boss their way to the market but also trying to piss on consumers to even thinking of buying the ps3.

Well the japanese just send them an "f" you and the console died shortly after.



Mr Puggsly on 02 April 2013

This loyalty thing to Japanese hardware is a stupid argument. The Japanese consumers didn't buy the 360 because it didn't have many games they wanted exclusively.

Xbox 360 saw a sales boost in Japan every time it got a game that appealed to Japanese consumers, but it didn't happen enough or with big enough titles.

I anticipate the next Xbox will be in Japan. The big three put their consoles pretty much everywhere they can. Even markets smaller than Japan.



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