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Forums - General Discussion - The Game of Thrones (Season 3) Official Thread - New Poll!

 

Who is your favorite character?

Jon Snow 59 18.85%
 
Tyrion Lannister 88 28.12%
 
Arya Stark 47 15.02%
 
Jaime Lannister 19 6.07%
 
Joffrey Baratheon 9 2.88%
 
Robb Stark 20 6.39%
 
Sandor Clegane (The Hound) 5 1.60%
 
Ygritte 4 1.28%
 
Bran Stark 7 2.24%
 
Someone else/ See results 50 15.97%
 
Total:308
Andrespetmonkey said:
I don't understand the last episode. Does that mean all that build-up was for nothing? Seems like a waste of screen time and a shitty end to that part of the story. I'm not even pissed about those characters dying really, just that it seemed pointless. Book readers, is there a point to it?


That conventions of story telling don't confom to reality.   The notion that life to have a "point" needs some ending is based on our custom of story telling.  A Song of Ice and Fire is in certain respects a counter to traditional high fantasy tropes.  We want our bright hero to slay our dark villain in glorious fashion, but that is not how life works.  Westeros is more real than many other fantasy worlds because it is grim like medieval Europe truly was.  Book readers do not know how this ends (least the honest ones admit that) and that is part of the joy for me.  I have no clue who will sit on the Iron Throne and who will remain after this tumultous era.  It is refreshing that book 5 threw another curve ball making me go "WHAT?" yet again so cannot wait for book 6.

I am not saying it is for anyone, but I adore it.



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Augen said:
Andrespetmonkey said:
I don't understand the last episode. Does that mean all that build-up was for nothing? Seems like a waste of screen time and a shitty end to that part of the story. I'm not even pissed about those characters dying really, just that it seemed pointless. Book readers, is there a point to it?


That conventions of story telling don't confom to reality.   The notion that life to have a "point" needs some ending is based on our custom of story telling.  A Song of Ice and Fire is in certain respects a counter to traditional high fantasy tropes.  We want our bright hero to slay our dark villain in glorious fashion, but that is not how life works.  Westeros is more real than many other fantasy worlds because it is grim like medieval Europe truly was.  Book readers do not know how this ends (least the honest ones admit that) and that is part of the joy for me.  I have no clue who will sit on the Iron Throne and who will remain after this tumultous era.  It is refreshing that book 5 threw another curve ball making me go "WHAT?" yet again so cannot wait for book 6.

I am not saying it is for anyone, but I adore it.

I'm not saying I want the good guys to always win, I'm just saying killing off main characters for no reason seems like bad writing. 

The writers can kill whoever they want, even my beloved daenerys (pls no), but if it's just for the sake of it then it seems like a waste and lost potential, even if it makes it more "real" at the same time. If you like it, awesome, but I don't buy your justification. 



Andrespetmonkey said:
Augen said:
Andrespetmonkey said:
I don't understand the last episode. Does that mean all that build-up was for nothing? Seems like a waste of screen time and a shitty end to that part of the story. I'm not even pissed about those characters dying really, just that it seemed pointless. Book readers, is there a point to it?


That conventions of story telling don't confom to reality.   The notion that life to have a "point" needs some ending is based on our custom of story telling.  A Song of Ice and Fire is in certain respects a counter to traditional high fantasy tropes.  We want our bright hero to slay our dark villain in glorious fashion, but that is not how life works.  Westeros is more real than many other fantasy worlds because it is grim like medieval Europe truly was.  Book readers do not know how this ends (least the honest ones admit that) and that is part of the joy for me.  I have no clue who will sit on the Iron Throne and who will remain after this tumultous era.  It is refreshing that book 5 threw another curve ball making me go "WHAT?" yet again so cannot wait for book 6.

I am not saying it is for anyone, but I adore it.

I'm not saying I want the good guys to always win, I'm just saying killing off main characters for no reason seems like bad writing. 

The writers can kill whoever they want, even my beloved daenerys (pls no), but if it's just for the sake of it then it seems like a waste and lost potential, even if it makes it more "real" at the same time. If you like it, awesome, but I don't buy your justification. 


Believe me, if you read the books, it's way harder to deal with this let people dying.



Andrespetmonkey said:
Augen said:
Andrespetmonkey said:
I don't understand the last episode. Does that mean all that build-up was for nothing? Seems like a waste of screen time and a shitty end to that part of the story. I'm not even pissed about those characters dying really, just that it seemed pointless. Book readers, is there a point to it?


That conventions of story telling don't confom to reality.   The notion that life to have a "point" needs some ending is based on our custom of story telling.  A Song of Ice and Fire is in certain respects a counter to traditional high fantasy tropes.  We want our bright hero to slay our dark villain in glorious fashion, but that is not how life works.  Westeros is more real than many other fantasy worlds because it is grim like medieval Europe truly was.  Book readers do not know how this ends (least the honest ones admit that) and that is part of the joy for me.  I have no clue who will sit on the Iron Throne and who will remain after this tumultous era.  It is refreshing that book 5 threw another curve ball making me go "WHAT?" yet again so cannot wait for book 6.

I am not saying it is for anyone, but I adore it.

I'm not saying I want the good guys to always win, I'm just saying killing off main characters for no reason seems like bad writing. 

The writers can kill whoever they want, even my beloved daenerys (pls no), but if it's just for the sake of it then it seems like a waste and lost potential, even if it makes it more "real" at the same time. If you like it, awesome, but I don't buy your justification. 


I don't know how else it could be done though.  You have literally 50+ "main" characters.  Inevitably some have to die.  It would be much worse writing if Martin continually introduced new characters only to have them killed off, so that we could hold onto the characters we've got to know.  Whether the readers like it or not, I think the book's do a pretty incredible job portraying the harsh realities of medieval warfare.  You lose friends and family, and have to just pick yourself up and carry on.  Always makes me think how easy we have it.



It's all about the game.

Andrespetmonkey said:

I'm not saying I want the good guys to always win, I'm just saying killing off main characters for no reason seems like bad writing. 

The writers can kill whoever they want, even my beloved daenerys (pls no), but if it's just for the sake of it then it seems like a waste and lost potential, even if it makes it more "real" at the same time. If you like it, awesome, but I don't buy your justification. 

This plot thread was layed out over time. We knew what kind of man Frey was and the Boltons history of hating the Starks, this is an event not in a vaccuum, but rather over months and even generations of history.  In retrospect it became obvious it was almost inevitable that Robb's romanticism had no place among these older bitter men.  His stubborn pride and notions of right and wrong and honor cost his father his life, but he idealized Ned as an example rather than a warning.

Now, imagine you are Arya Stark.  How do you see this world? A girl who rejected her role and dreamed of adventure, who watched her beloved father die for no good reason other than the whim of  a madman and her mother and brother due to ugly bitterness.  Now, what will her story be?

One story dies, another is born.  All these pieces moving create fascinating new elements and make a characters story more rich and undertsandable.  Perhaps becuase I've read these multiple times and suplementary materials I see the patterns of how character types are affected by this world making them more  undertsandable.  Characters like Stannis and Tywin are byproducts of a world view and how the world viewed them.  What we see now is another link in a long chain of history.  Eddard Stark had his father and brother murdered by Aerys, for what reason?  There was no point that we'd undertsand, but the act led in part to the downfall of a three hundred year old dynasty.  Actions have consequences, and the story never truly ends.  



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Augen said:
Andrespetmonkey said:

I'm not saying I want the good guys to always win, I'm just saying killing off main characters for no reason seems like bad writing. 

The writers can kill whoever they want, even my beloved daenerys (pls no), but if it's just for the sake of it then it seems like a waste and lost potential, even if it makes it more "real" at the same time. If you like it, awesome, but I don't buy your justification. 

This plot thread was layed out over time. We knew what kind of man Frey was and the Boltons history of hating the Starks, this is an event not in a vaccuum, but rather over months and even generations of history.  In retrospect it became obvious it was almost inevitable that Robb's romanticism had no place among these older bitter men.  His stubborn pride and notions of right and wrong and honor cost his father his life, but he idealized Ned as an example rather than a warning.

Now, imagine you are Arya Stark.  How do you see this world? A girl who rejected her role and dreamed of adventure, who watched her beloved father die for no good reason other than the whim of  a madman and her mother and brother due to ugly bitterness.  Now, what will her story be?

One story dies, another is born.  All these pieces moving create fascinating new elements and make a characters story more rich and undertsandable.  Perhaps becuase I've read these multiple times and suplementary materials I see the patterns of how character types are affected by this world making them more  undertsandable.  Characters like Stannis and Tywin are byproducts of a world view and how the world viewed them.  What we see now is another link in a long chain of history.  Eddard Stark had his father and brother murdered by Aerys, for what reason?  There was no point that we'd undertsand, but the act led in part to the downfall of a three hundred year old dynasty.  Actions have consequences, and the story never truly ends.  

Now that sounds interesting. If these deaths spawn some other story that turns out to be more interesting than Robb's potential story, I'll applaud that.



Augen said:
Andrespetmonkey said:

I'm not saying I want the good guys to always win, I'm just saying killing off main characters for no reason seems like bad writing. 

The writers can kill whoever they want, even my beloved daenerys (pls no), but if it's just for the sake of it then it seems like a waste and lost potential, even if it makes it more "real" at the same time. If you like it, awesome, but I don't buy your justification. 

This plot thread was layed out over time. We knew what kind of man Frey was and the Boltons history of hating the Starks, this is an event not in a vaccuum, but rather over months and even generations of history.  In retrospect it became obvious it was almost inevitable that Robb's romanticism had no place among these older bitter men.  His stubborn pride and notions of right and wrong and honor cost his father his life, but he idealized Ned as an example rather than a warning.

Now, imagine you are Arya Stark.  How do you see this world? A girl who rejected her role and dreamed of adventure, who watched her beloved father die for no good reason other than the whim of  a madman and her mother and brother due to ugly bitterness.  Now, what will her story be?

One story dies, another is born.  All these pieces moving create fascinating new elements and make a characters story more rich and undertsandable.  Perhaps becuase I've read these multiple times and suplementary materials I see the patterns of how character types are affected by this world making them more  undertsandable.  Characters like Stannis and Tywin are byproducts of a world view and how the world viewed them.  What we see now is another link in a long chain of history.  Eddard Stark had his father and brother murdered by Aerys, for what reason?  There was no point that we'd undertsand, but the act led in part to the downfall of a three hundred year old dynasty.  Actions have consequences, and the story never truly ends.  

It is easy to say that characters die for no reason when you don't even know what happens next. Their death could trigger a chain of event. Have you never though of this, Andrespetmonkey?

It's like... What was the point of cutting Jaime's hand?  Well, it was cruel, yes, but as far as the character growth is concerned, what will happen from here? It's the same with Robb and Catelyn's death. How will their death affect the people around them?



Hynad said:

It is easy to say that characters die for no reason when you don't even know what happens next. Their death could trigger a chain of event. Have you never though of this, Andrespetmonkey?

@bolded: Of course... that's why I asked book readers if there was a good reason to it.

And yeah, but I'm afraid they might not be as good as Robb's potential story, because the show's been building momentum for ages and I was expecting awesome things.



Andrespetmonkey said:
Hynad said:

It is easy to say that characters die for no reason when you don't even know what happens next. Their death could trigger a chain of event. Have you never though of this, Andrespetmonkey?

@bolded: Of course... that's why I asked book readers if there was a good reason to it.

And yeah, but I'm afraid they might not be as good as Robb's potential story, because the show's been building momentum for ages and I was expecting awesome things.

There will be lots of awesome things is store for you. Don't lose hope! ^__-

But yeah... I was crushed by the Red Wedding too. It was a mix of anger, sadness and despair. All at the same time.