At least sony had profit from previous consoles to rely on, the origional xbox was a disaster with no profit at all, if you honestly believe this gen ending in 3rd place in sales despite all the "variables" and all the money spent just so that they could stop sony dominating.....and still not dominate themselfs...Then when they realized the wii was ahead they ditched their core fan base and have now been aiming after casual gamers and from "rumours" so far are continuing to do so next gen

mission acomplised?? really? you belive that?

MS has tons of money to rely on as well. Not sure what your point there is. Regarding the 3rd place thing, yes. After years of throwing **** at the wall predicting this event, the PS3 is likely to finally pass the 360 in 2013. However, does this make up for the billions lost? Does this make up for the huge drop in userbase? Does it erase the strides and US dominance achieved by MS? No.

Like I said, it's widely known MS got into the business to slow Sony down and stop them from taking over the living room. To say they did not succeed in that this gen is just foolish imho. PSone hit 100 million sold in 9 1/2 years. PS2 hit it in less than 6. And the YoY drop rate the PS3 is seeing and its current userbase, PS3 won't even match the PSone pace. That's progress for MS.

But the main thing is the money lost. Again, Sony got on top by outspending Nintendo and Sega. Now MS is bleeding them the same way. Do you think Sony can survive another generation like PS3? I highly doubt it. Meanwhile the 360 has actually made MS money. This gen has been an immense success for them. The absolute only area where they'd see room for improvement would be Japan and the way that market is going, it's not even going to be worth it next gen.

Also, as someone who has been a core gamer on the 360 since 2005, they haven't abandoned me. That's just nonsense that people who don't know what they are talking about like to throw out. No offense. I have plenty of games to play on my 360 brought to me by MS.

1) my point was sony had money from the playstation brand to rely on, xbox 1 just poured money and i doubt the 360 is making loads of money either..it doesnt matter how much money the comany has if its just losing money...its not a venture which they will want to continue in.

2) Last gen the PS2 was the dominator in US.... what a difference a gen makes, it can just as easily change back unless you can prove otherwise?

3) Thats exactly why sony are getting this head start, they are not going to make the same mistake again

4) can you show me the proof?.............last time i heard a lot of investors wanted to pull out

5) enlighten me on what great hardcore games microsoft has bought you recently

Exactly. Just look at the strides MS has made this gen. And yet it apparently was not a success lol.

Also, regarding the games, in the last year or so they have brought to my 360:

Horizon
American Nightmare
Gears Judgement
Minecraft
Halo 4 (which I am not a fan of but they still made the effort)
Mark of the Ninja
Dust
Trials Evolution
Fez

Among others I am probably not thinking of right now. Maybe later I will look at a list.

So did you pay for Xbox's UFC, FIOS, ESPN3, etc etc? How many subscribers in those 'apps' compared to Netflix? Which one is higher? Xbox can't even play Blu-Rays so using Xbox for movies is out of the question. MS is forced to fight for niche programmes that directly compete with Cable providers and they have little to no marketshare in that departement.

If you say MS's goal is to become the centerpiece for home entertainment, then they have failed. They have little to no market share for movies, and they little to no market shares for cable programming.

it can lose it just as easy as it was gained, Sony and nintendo could tell you that

Mark of the Ninja -- indie/arcade game
american nightmare--stand alone dlc
dust - another indie/arcade game
Trials Evolution- a graphical update on an old flash pc game

fez?? lol

so these are hardcore games now? hahaha

so really the only two hardcore are forza and halo

And Gears, which is still more than the PS3 had all last year, thought last year would have taught you guys to be more humble.  More games have been released on the 360 than PS3, that's a fact and the gap has increased since the PS3 release.  It speaks volumes that you have to talk about "hardcore" to hide how pathetic your argument actually is.

....Because that's what i was talking about...how hardcore have been ditched

of course 2012 has been quite, because so much is coming out for the ps3 in 2013 and because they are working on ps4 titles now...;)

The potential happenings of next gen or the gen after that doesn't mean anything for this gen. It doesn't change what a success this gen was for MS.