rpg is a broad genre and its elements will be incorporated into so many games like bioshock and too human that it will disapear and nobody will know what truly counts as an rpg game

So, Naz, after reading this thread, give me your expectations of Fallout 3.

*dons flamesuit and riot shield*

Well, personally, simply upgrading special moves or abilities isn't a defining RPG element, like I see written by others; actually that has little to do with it.  It's all about numberical stats and how they affect what you can and can't do and how well you do it.  It's what seperates the gameplay from every other genre.  That and travel and exploration (to differentiate from strategy games). 

Odds say it will suck... Fallout 3 has been in development for some 8 years, and switched developers from an awesome developer to an awful developer. 

The chances of Bethesda ever making a game with even passable gameplay are slim to none, and I'm sure they'll eliminate the previously stellar plot in favor of "Kill big evil emporer."  There will be a world the size of the actual continental united states, but there will be 2 actual towns, on exact opposite corners of the world.   If you want a car to drive accross it, you'll have to pay $75 on PC, and $100 on Xbox Live.  It will be a hummer with realistic gas mileage, and gasoline will be extra, with realistic gas prices.  

Seriously the chances of me buying Fallout 3 after the rights were sold to Bethesda are very very low. 

And while Fallout 1 and 2 were ugly by design and necessity, 3 looks just plain ugly so far.

And possibly:

Black Isle = rpg geniuses

Bethesda =/= rpg geniuses

no?

@naz
man one studio u can't diss is bethesda especially since u or anyone else besides the devs don't truly no enough about this game to back up all your claims

Yes. Exactly.

@dante

I can have whatever opinions I want about Bethesda... and believe me, I've had plenty of experience with their games to back up my stance. Sure, they could magically learn how to make a passable combat system. They could magically learn how to make a plot that's not derivative of every other game they have made. The graphics could also magically hop up to current generation standards from the trailer.

That's a lot of magic that needs to happen in the next 6 months or so though, and personally, I'm not counting of any of that happening.

While I'm not nearly as down on Bethesda as you, I think we can both agree on one thing:

The Fallout franchise should have gone to BioWare or another top-shelf WRPG developer. I don't Bethesda fits at all. 

you have with other games of theres but not fallout they could take a different approach with it but it wont be to dif

The best way to look at a role playing game is to picture yourself as assuming the role of a character and creating a story while following a formal system of rules/guidelines with a numerical system. Old school dungeons & dragons is the best example...and that's what you do. RPG's involve (or should) imagination, character roles, set of guidelines, numerical gameplay (although often hidden in a console game), etc. You should be able to shape the outcome to a degree (which you can't in most JRPG's).

Now I think that the meaning of RPG as been altered significantly with the advent of Final Fantasy and other JRPG's (which I honestly prefer--I prefer the linear, layed out storyline and assuming the role of a pre-rendered character, but most don't).

I have a hard time swallowing many of the "modern" RPG's. Like Folklore, you have no creativity, no story making, no numerical combat, no will over the outcome, and little customization & upgrading--yet it is an "Action" RPG (Not a bad game--actually sort of enjoy it and it has a nice story to tell). Too Human looks like it is pushing the bounds of being an RPG too. A blend between a God of War (Action) and a Diablo/Baldur's Gate (RPG)--how far can you blend before it crosses that boundary of no longer being an RPG? Time will tell when I play it.

Anyhow, the point is...some people like JRPG's and some people like SRPG's and some people like WRPG's...each console has its own strengths in each category and its flagship RPG's. RPG has become a fairly broad term lately and can be interpreted differently pretty easily. It's old school D&D (which I use to love to play...damn I'm old) definition doesn't necessairly work for it anymore--the term RPG has to be adaptable to a degree...So different interpretations doesn't mean one person is right and another is wrong. Hence the titles...WRPG/ARPG & JRPG/SRPG, etc. Each console meets the needs of different RPG fans, differently.