By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft Discussion - NeXbox Always connected = Sleep Mode

Stinky on 24 March 2013

The people who seem maddest about these rumours are folks who would likely never consider buying an xbox in the first place.



Around the Network
theprof00 on 24 March 2013
Machiavellian said:
theprof00 said:
Machiavellian said:


Actually he is not arguing semantics he is stating exactly what the document says.  The document says nothing about any DRM tied to always on and always online.  The document explicity state what those two services mean.  This is not a consumer document.  It's a document for developers and if MS is to use these two services for DRM they would just state it.  DRM. Is something that developers and publishers want and if MS will provide it for them then it would be stated.

The key people keep forgetting is that MS is a for profit company.  If MS will institute a DRM system to not play used games it would demand something in return from publishers.  The reason it's very doubtful that MS would require the console to be on in order to play games is that it would limit their install base.

Are you stating what the document directly says, or making assumptions?

In tabletop games, we have two acronyms. One called RAW, and RAI.

Many times Rules As Worded end up being completely incorrect, and fixed by the developer.
Rules as Interpreted is almost wrong just the same.

So who is to say whose interpretation is better?


I am stating what the document says.  It directly states what the use is for always on always connected and it makes no mention or hint to anything else.  There is no interpretation until MS changes there XDK.  This is the Xbox developer kit.  It's give tools, libraries and documentation for developers to code for the Xbox.  It's not a consumer document and if features are to be used for DRM, it would just state it.

What a lot of people continue to for get is that a XDK needs to specify to developers how a specific DRM will be provided so it can be added to the software unless MS has a totally hardware solution which means non of the things in the document is used for DRM.

Just for the record, I do believe there will be some type of DRM from Sony and MS, I just do not believe this is it.  The reason we have not heard anything solid on this from either Sony or MS is they are both still working with publishers.  It's not in the interest of either Sony or MS. To do this unless publishers add some incentive to combat the negative press or both consoles do it.

but it specifically refers to downloading, so how could always connected not mean it's always online, if you're stating exactly what it says?



Stinky on 24 March 2013
Machiavellian said:
I do not know why people keep stating that the PS4 will play used games because Sony has not confirmed it yet. Here is a statement from two Sony execs that say this is something to be determined. Here are the quotes

Sony's stance seems to be wait and see what MS does, then do that.



theprof00 on 24 March 2013
Stinky said:
Machiavellian said:
I do not know why people keep stating that the PS4 will play used games because Sony has not confirmed it yet. Here is a statement from two Sony execs that say this is something to be determined. Here are the quotes

Sony's stance seems to be wait and see what MS does, then beat it.

:D just a tiny fix necessary there.



Machiavellian on 25 March 2013
theprof00 said:
but it specifically refers to downloading, so how could always connected not mean it's always online, if you're stating exactly what it says?

 


Here is a quote from Sony boss on the exact same feature but Sony says the PS4 is not required to be always connected so tell me whats the difference.

Eurogamer: Does the console always need to be connected to the internet?

Shuhei Yoshida: You can play offline, but you may want to keep it connected. The system has the low-power mode - I don't know the official term - that the main system is shut down but the subsystem is awake. Downloading or updating or you can wake it up using either the tablet, smartphone or PS Vita.

So the PS4 does the exact same thing.  It has a low power mode that allows the console to upload and download.  So by your definition then the PS4 must always be connected as well and Shuhei does not know what he is talking about.



Around the Network
Machiavellian on 25 March 2013
theprof00 said:
Stinky said:
Machiavellian said:
I do not know why people keep stating that the PS4 will play used games because Sony has not confirmed it yet. Here is a statement from two Sony execs that say this is something to be determined. Here are the quotes

Sony's stance seems to be wait and see what MS does, then beat it.

:D just a tiny fix necessary there.


Or maybe its that Sony is a coporation just like MS and its looking for more than just gamers interest.  This silly notion that Sony cares about gamers do not go beyound what is best for Sony.  Sony isnt wating for MS, they both are in conversation with publishers on how to best implement some type of used game DRM where everyone can get a cut on those used game sales besides Gamestop.

I notice that a lot of Sony fanbase just completly ignore information that is kept from them and put their hands in their ears until Sony slaps them awake.  I do not love Sony, Nintendo or MS.  Instead I am a game player and I play games on anything that quench my need.  I never forget that these coporations are out for their own benifit and if they do something for me, its not about me but about what I will spend for them.



MoHasanie on 25 March 2013
VGKing said:
MoHasanie said:
VGKing said:

-Wishful thinking. EA can't jeapordise their relationship with Sony to put their games exclusively on a console the public will hate. Let's be honest, if all these rumors about the next XBox are true, many will choose a PS4 instead.

No one is hating on MIcrosoft, but if these rumors are true then we probably should. The next Xbox sounds very anti-consumer.
MANDATORY installs. ALWAYS ON. Kinect REQUIRED. Online play REQUIRES SUBSCRIPTION. 

Well clearly you're very biased cause with the very little info we know about the Nextbox, you're already claiming the public will "hate" it.

Also, you act like the PS4 is guranteed to be sucessful. From what we know, its gonna very expensive, and that itself is a big disadvantage for Sony. If MS undercuts the PS4 by a big margin, then many will certaininly not chose the PS4 instead even if the no used game rumor is true. 

I can only go by on the info we have now. If you want to wait until we have concrete info then you go do that.

PS4 won't be very expensive. It's going to be pretty much the same price as the next Xbox. give or take $50.....keep in mind that the next Kinect will be bundled with every Xbox. That will bring up prices.

And the PS eye thing is rumored to be bundled with the PS4 as well, so that will just make an expensive console even more expensive. 



    

NNID: FrequentFlyer54

theprof00 on 25 March 2013
Machiavellian said:
theprof00 said:
but it specifically refers to downloading, so how could always connected not mean it's always online, if you're stating exactly what it says?

 


Here is a quote from Sony boss on the exact same feature but Sony says the PS4 is not required to be always connected so tell me whats the difference.

 

Eurogamer: Does the console always need to be connected to the internet?

Shuhei Yoshida: You can play offline, but you may want to keep it connected. The system has the low-power mode - I don't know the official term - that the main system is shut down but the subsystem is awake. Downloading or updating or you can wake it up using either the tablet, smartphone or PS Vita.

 

So the PS4 does the exact same thing.  It has a low power mode that allows the console to upload and download.  So by your definition then the PS4 must always be connected as well and Shuhei does not know what he is talking about.

That's not really answering the question is it. Furthermore, he doesn't use the words "ALWAYS CONNECTED" nor does he refer to being connected while away from the console. He only mentions when not using it.



VGKing on 25 March 2013
Stinky said:
The people who seem maddest about these rumours are folks who would likely never consider buying an xbox in the first place.

That just doesn't make sense at all.

Machiavellian said:
theprof00 said:
but it specifically refers to downloading, so how could always connected not mean it's always online, if you're stating exactly what it says?

 


Here is a quote from Sony boss on the exact same feature but Sony says the PS4 is not required to be always connected so tell me whats the difference.

 

Eurogamer: Does the console always need to be connected to the internet?

Shuhei Yoshida: You can play offline, but you may want to keep it connected. The system has the low-power mode - I don't know the official term - that the main system is shut down but the subsystem is awake. Downloading or updating or you can wake it up using either the tablet, smartphone or PS Vita.

 

So the PS4 does the exact same thing.  It has a low power mode that allows the console to upload and download.  So by your definition then the PS4 must always be connected as well and Shuhei does not know what he is talking about.

He says you can play online, so no it doesn't do the same thing. People seem to think the next Xbox has some sort of always online DRM. Now, if the rumors said the next XBox CAN be always online then this confusion wouldn't be taking place. But rumors state that it WILL be always online. The choice of words makes a big difference.

MoHasanie said:
VGKing said:
MoHasanie said:
VGKing said:

-Wishful thinking. EA can't jeapordise their relationship with Sony to put their games exclusively on a console the public will hate. Let's be honest, if all these rumors about the next XBox are true, many will choose a PS4 instead.

No one is hating on MIcrosoft, but if these rumors are true then we probably should. The next Xbox sounds very anti-consumer.
MANDATORY installs. ALWAYS ON. Kinect REQUIRED. Online play REQUIRES SUBSCRIPTION. 

Well clearly you're very biased cause with the very little info we know about the Nextbox, you're already claiming the public will "hate" it.

Also, you act like the PS4 is guranteed to be sucessful. From what we know, its gonna very expensive, and that itself is a big disadvantage for Sony. If MS undercuts the PS4 by a big margin, then many will certaininly not chose the PS4 instead even if the no used game rumor is true. 

I can only go by on the info we have now. If you want to wait until we have concrete info then you go do that.

PS4 won't be very expensive. It's going to be pretty much the same price as the next Xbox. give or take $50.....keep in mind that the next Kinect will be bundled with every Xbox. That will bring up prices.

And the PS eye thing is rumored to be bundled with the PS4 as well, so that will just make an expensive console even more expensive. 

We havn't really heard that from a reliable source but the PS Eye is pretty cheap. The next-gen version shouldn't be much more expensive. Definitley won't come close to Kinect in terms of price. My guess is Sony won't try to overengineer this and try to push it as the next big thing. They'll have it there for the video chat and voice commands. Plus the Move Support for games like Just Dance 5/6/7/8/9/10. Again, I expect both consoles to be very very similar in price. You won't see one being $400 and the other being $500. Sony isn't stupid ,they have competition and they will price match. 



Machiavellian on 25 March 2013
theprof00 said:
Machiavellian said:
theprof00 said:
but it specifically refers to downloading, so how could always connected not mean it's always online, if you're stating exactly what it says?

 


Here is a quote from Sony boss on the exact same feature but Sony says the PS4 is not required to be always connected so tell me whats the difference.

 

Eurogamer: Does the console always need to be connected to the internet?

Shuhei Yoshida: You can play offline, but you may want to keep it connected. The system has the low-power mode - I don't know the official term - that the main system is shut down but the subsystem is awake. Downloading or updating or you can wake it up using either the tablet, smartphone or PS Vita.

 

So the PS4 does the exact same thing.  It has a low power mode that allows the console to upload and download.  So by your definition then the PS4 must always be connected as well and Shuhei does not know what he is talking about.

That's not really answering the question is it. Furthermore, he doesn't use the words "ALWAYS CONNECTED" nor does he refer to being connected while away from the console. He only mentions when not using it.

Whats to answer?? You asked a question that I could answer anyway I want which would then take us in a circle jerk.  Instead I gave you proof of a simliar solution that does not meet your specification.  

Why don't you tell me whats the difference because he doesn't have to use the same words for the actual solution to be the same.  If the console is in a low powered mode that allows it to upload and download from PSN, then its alwasy on, alwasy connected.  If you could show me a case why this is not the same instead of of telling me the words are not the same then that would be a better case.  Both the solutions do the same thing and unless specified are the same.  Trying to wring out extra meaning from always on, always connected is going more towards speculation than anything else.

What you are trying to do is find reason that MS would make a console require internet connectivity even though with the amount of XBL subscriptions compared to how many people own the console is only 25% of the customer base. MS is a business first and it doesn't even remotely make sense for them to require an internet connection to limit the penatration of their next consoles in peoples homes.  You can bet there will be DRM but it will be on the publishers just like it is now with Project 10 dollar and other such methods.

As mentioned before, the document gives an exact meaning of what always on, always connected means so there is no reason for me to extrapolate more than what is written.  There is no confusion and there is no opinion until MS says differently.