By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft Discussion - NeXbox Always connected = Sleep Mode

J_Allard on 24 March 2013

Mandatory Kinect is DRM? lol.



Around the Network
Jaywood2010 on 24 March 2013
VGKing said:
JayWood2010 said:

After reading comments in the last thread I decided to just make a new thread.  I will copy and paste my comment here, but seriosly guys relax on the rumors.  And if you are going to speculate on them then think a little.  This is regarding the rumor about Always Connected and Installing games.

lmao at the comments in this thread. Very pitiful that people are turning a rumor with little information into something they hope to see people get pissed off at MSFT on forums. In reality forums are very little of the real world but that is a completely different story. 

It sounds like hibernation mode "Always connected". This means if you have XBL and Internet it will update your games and console while in hibernation mode. This will also allow you to turn your Xbox on by saying "Xbox On". That was not that difficult to figure out. It says nothing about constant internet connection.

Installs are not new at all and most PS3 games require an install but i guess we are ignoring that. I think what they are trying to do is make it more like PC where you can just click on your games from your hard drive to change games rather than changing discs or possibly quicker load times. That is a good thing and it is interesting that I hear people complaining about that when PS3 requires installs and that is only for quicker load times and nothing else. Then you have PC which blocked used game sales a long time ago but we will ignore that too i suppose. Hating on MSFT is the cool thing around here right?

Anyways. Always connected means always on "hibernation". 

Installs could potentially block used game sales but until that is confirmed I'd say it is best to not jump to any conclusions. I also want to point out that Sony has been pretty shady about the used game sales as well. From what I've understood about PS4 is that they are allowing publshers and developers to choose if they want to block used games. Now if that is true or not I dont know.

One last comment I want to make. EA has some kind of deal with MSFT correct. now if MSFT does block used games and Sony does not I would not doubt if EA puts all of there games as timed exclusives on MSFT's console so all games are sold as new for let's say 1-6 months. It wouldn't be out of the normal if many publishers and developers would take the same approach so for all of the sony fans saying this is dumb, well it is not. it is a business strategy that will help publishers and developers (which they have been screaming about for years. Do you guys really not think they won't take advantage of this?) and in return help MSFT. So if they team up together (which they will) then it isnt looking so high and mighty for sony any more seeing as MSFT would be getting timed exclusives from many big games. So before you guys draw conclusions without even thinking them through try thinking.

-An always online coonection sounds like DRM to me. Even if it isn't, there's that Kinect that needs to be plugged in to work. So there's either 1 or 2 forms of DRM.

-Yes, many PS3 games require mandatory installs. But these are partial installs and only install a couple of GB worst case scenario. Having to install entire games on the next XBox will be a huge hassle once you have a big collection of games and you are playing multiple games at the same time. 

-Reliable sources say the next XBox blocks used games. Nothing mentions the PS4 doing it, at least not lately. Besides, Sony confimed that PS4 plays used games. If they were allowing publishers to choose to block used games...this is the first I've heard of it. Maybe the reason no one is discussing it is because you made it up. A link to this rumor would be appreciated. Feel free to make a thread about it as well.

-Wishful thinking. EA can't jeapordise their relationship with Sony to put their games exclusively on a console the public will hate. Let's be honest, if all these rumors about the next XBox are true, many will choose a PS4 instead.

No one is hating on MIcrosoft, but if these rumors are true then we probably should. The next Xbox sounds very anti-consumer.
MANDATORY installs. ALWAYS ON. Kinect REQUIRED. Online play REQUIRES SUBSCRIPTION. 


If I was making it up do you think it would have taken 50+ comments to correct me?  No im not making it up and how does mandatory kinect make it DRM?   That is just there way of popularizing kinect.  

Let's be honest here.  If one blocks used games the other needs to.  Developers will love this and support who ever has the balls to block used games.  People might be pissed but guess what?  They will buy them anyways.




       

ethomaz on 24 March 2013

Any proof? Or only speculation.



thranx on 24 March 2013
VGKing said:

-An always online coonection sounds like DRM to me. Even if it isn't, there's that Kinect that needs to be plugged in to work. So there's either 1 or 2 forms of DRM.


kinect being plugged in is not DRM. thats like saying you have to plug your console into the electric grid, its DRM. doesnt make sence.



VGKing on 24 March 2013
JayWood2010 said:
VGKing said:
JayWood2010 said:

After reading comments in the last thread I decided to just make a new thread.  I will copy and paste my comment here, but seriosly guys relax on the rumors.  And if you are going to speculate on them then think a little.  This is regarding the rumor about Always Connected and Installing games.

lmao at the comments in this thread. Very pitiful that people are turning a rumor with little information into something they hope to see people get pissed off at MSFT on forums. In reality forums are very little of the real world but that is a completely different story. 

It sounds like hibernation mode "Always connected". This means if you have XBL and Internet it will update your games and console while in hibernation mode. This will also allow you to turn your Xbox on by saying "Xbox On". That was not that difficult to figure out. It says nothing about constant internet connection.

Installs are not new at all and most PS3 games require an install but i guess we are ignoring that. I think what they are trying to do is make it more like PC where you can just click on your games from your hard drive to change games rather than changing discs or possibly quicker load times. That is a good thing and it is interesting that I hear people complaining about that when PS3 requires installs and that is only for quicker load times and nothing else. Then you have PC which blocked used game sales a long time ago but we will ignore that too i suppose. Hating on MSFT is the cool thing around here right?

Anyways. Always connected means always on "hibernation". 

Installs could potentially block used game sales but until that is confirmed I'd say it is best to not jump to any conclusions. I also want to point out that Sony has been pretty shady about the used game sales as well. From what I've understood about PS4 is that they are allowing publshers and developers to choose if they want to block used games. Now if that is true or not I dont know.

One last comment I want to make. EA has some kind of deal with MSFT correct. now if MSFT does block used games and Sony does not I would not doubt if EA puts all of there games as timed exclusives on MSFT's console so all games are sold as new for let's say 1-6 months. It wouldn't be out of the normal if many publishers and developers would take the same approach so for all of the sony fans saying this is dumb, well it is not. it is a business strategy that will help publishers and developers (which they have been screaming about for years. Do you guys really not think they won't take advantage of this?) and in return help MSFT. So if they team up together (which they will) then it isnt looking so high and mighty for sony any more seeing as MSFT would be getting timed exclusives from many big games. So before you guys draw conclusions without even thinking them through try thinking.

-An always online coonection sounds like DRM to me. Even if it isn't, there's that Kinect that needs to be plugged in to work. So there's either 1 or 2 forms of DRM.

-Yes, many PS3 games require mandatory installs. But these are partial installs and only install a couple of GB worst case scenario. Having to install entire games on the next XBox will be a huge hassle once you have a big collection of games and you are playing multiple games at the same time. 

-Reliable sources say the next XBox blocks used games. Nothing mentions the PS4 doing it, at least not lately. Besides, Sony confimed that PS4 plays used games. If they were allowing publishers to choose to block used games...this is the first I've heard of it. Maybe the reason no one is discussing it is because you made it up. A link to this rumor would be appreciated. Feel free to make a thread about it as well.

-Wishful thinking. EA can't jeapordise their relationship with Sony to put their games exclusively on a console the public will hate. Let's be honest, if all these rumors about the next XBox are true, many will choose a PS4 instead.

No one is hating on MIcrosoft, but if these rumors are true then we probably should. The next Xbox sounds very anti-consumer.
MANDATORY installs. ALWAYS ON. Kinect REQUIRED. Online play REQUIRES SUBSCRIPTION. 


If I was making it up do you think it would have taken 50+ comments to correct me?  No im not making it up and how does mandatory kinect make it DRM?   That is just there way of popularizing kinect.  

Let's be honest here.  If one blocks used games the other needs to.  Developers will love this and support who ever has the balls to block used games.  People might be pissed but guess what?  They will buy them anyways.

Where's the link then? 

Kinect needing to be plugged is similar to DRM in that it is anti-consumer. That's what I meant.

That's just not true. If Xbox 720 blocks used games, people will flock to the PS4 or Wii U because those won't. Gamestop will push these consoles that play used games over the one that doesn't. 



Around the Network
MoHasanie on 24 March 2013
VGKing said:

-Wishful thinking. EA can't jeapordise their relationship with Sony to put their games exclusively on a console the public will hate. Let's be honest, if all these rumors about the next XBox are true, many will choose a PS4 instead.

No one is hating on MIcrosoft, but if these rumors are true then we probably should. The next Xbox sounds very anti-consumer.
MANDATORY installs. ALWAYS ON. Kinect REQUIRED. Online play REQUIRES SUBSCRIPTION. 

Well clearly you're very biased cause with the very little info we know about the Nextbox, you're already claiming the public will "hate" it.

Also, you act like the PS4 is guranteed to be sucessful. From what we know, its gonna very expensive, and that itself is a big disadvantage for Sony. If MS undercuts the PS4 by a big margin, then many will certaininly not chose the PS4 instead even if the no used game rumor is true. 



    

NNID: FrequentFlyer54

Machiavellian on 24 March 2013
theprof00 said:
Machiavellian said:


Actually he is not arguing semantics he is stating exactly what the document says.  The document says nothing about any DRM tied to always on and always online.  The document explicity state what those two services mean.  This is not a consumer document.  It's a document for developers and if MS is to use these two services for DRM they would just state it.  DRM. Is something that developers and publishers want and if MS will provide it for them then it would be stated.

The key people keep forgetting is that MS is a for profit company.  If MS will institute a DRM system to not play used games it would demand something in return from publishers.  The reason it's very doubtful that MS would require the console to be on in order to play games is that it would limit their install base.

Are you stating what the document directly says, or making assumptions?

In tabletop games, we have two acronyms. One called RAW, and RAI.

Many times Rules As Worded end up being completely incorrect, and fixed by the developer.
Rules as Interpreted is almost wrong just the same.

So who is to say whose interpretation is better?


I am stating what the document says.  It directly states what the use is for always on always connected and it makes no mention or hint to anything else.  There is no interpretation until MS changes there XDK.  This is the Xbox developer kit.  It's give tools, libraries and documentation for developers to code for the Xbox.  It's not a consumer document and if features are to be used for DRM, it would just state it.

What a lot of people continue to for get is that a XDK needs to specify to developers how a specific DRM will be provided so it can be added to the software unless MS has a totally hardware solution which means non of the things in the document is used for DRM.

Just for the record, I do believe there will be some type of DRM from Sony and MS, I just do not believe this is it.  The reason we have not heard anything solid on this from either Sony or MS is they are both still working with publishers.  It's not in the interest of either Sony or MS. To do this unless publishers add some incentive to combat the negative press or both consoles do it.



Ssenkahdavic on 24 March 2013

Funny how you left out one of the most important aspects of installing games...

This has basically been a requirement of PC games since the world evolved from Diskettes. I cannot remember the last game I played that I didn't have to install. Oh wait, Tablets and Phones require the same. Do not see the problem.

Always on? Wait, my PC is always connected as long as I have it plugged in/powered on also. This isnt a problem either. I love how my PS3 can log itself in and update my games. Saves me from having to do it.
Only way always on would be a problem is if it was required for use and we do not know that yet.




 

  

The Only True Next Gen Game - Hero-U

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.
Robert A. Heinlein

Machiavellian on 24 March 2013

I do not know why people keep stating that the PS4 will play used games because Sony has not confirmed it yet. Here is a statement from two Sony execs that say this is something to be determined. Here are the quotes

UK Managing Director Fergal Gara

"Well, first of all, we haven't stated that second-hand games... we haven’t made a statement on the second-hand games question," Gara said. "The answer to the pre-owned question isn’t clarified just yet and we’re working through that and we’ll announce our position in more detail as and when we can." [quote]

Sony vice president of Worldwide Studios Michael Denny
[quote] "It's a massively important issue and I understand why it's one that keeps coming up and will keep coming up, because people want to know what the exact stance is," Denny said.

"In relation to points like that, of course we're mindful of what the game development community wants and what the wider industry issues are with those things. I think in good time that will become clearer," he added.

Denny did not provide a simple yes or no answer, but said Sony will do right by developers and consumers alike.

"It's not something that I feel I have any further announcement or comment to make on, other than to acknowledge with you that it's a massively important issue and of course we are going to do the right thing," he said.


Just from those 2 comments and even the evasive one from Shuhei Yoshida from another interview when asked if the PS4 will play used games he stated he needs to review Sony services on the issue.



VGKing on 24 March 2013
MoHasanie said:
VGKing said:

-Wishful thinking. EA can't jeapordise their relationship with Sony to put their games exclusively on a console the public will hate. Let's be honest, if all these rumors about the next XBox are true, many will choose a PS4 instead.

No one is hating on MIcrosoft, but if these rumors are true then we probably should. The next Xbox sounds very anti-consumer.
MANDATORY installs. ALWAYS ON. Kinect REQUIRED. Online play REQUIRES SUBSCRIPTION. 

Well clearly you're very biased cause with the very little info we know about the Nextbox, you're already claiming the public will "hate" it.

Also, you act like the PS4 is guranteed to be sucessful. From what we know, its gonna very expensive, and that itself is a big disadvantage for Sony. If MS undercuts the PS4 by a big margin, then many will certaininly not chose the PS4 instead even if the no used game rumor is true. 

I can only go by on the info we have now. If you want to wait until we have concrete info then you go do that.

PS4 won't be very expensive. It's going to be pretty much the same price as the next Xbox. give or take $50.....keep in mind that the next Kinect will be bundled with every Xbox. That will bring up prices.