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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo's down, but not out.

phenom08 on 20 March 2013
Mazty said:
DanneSandin said:
Mazty said:

Yes because THE FIGURES SHOW IT ONLY SELLS AT MOST 1 MILLION UNITS. And that was for a much more popular console! As I said, looking at it, no game really sells a system - multiple games combined sell systems. 

Bluray is a successful format. Are you really going to tell me 350 million blurays sold in 2010 alone is somehow a "failure"?  No. Your understanding of buisness and tech is terrible. Something doesn't have to "beat the other one" to be successful. HD-DVD wasn't successful. Bluray is because it is THE HD format and is shifting very respectable amounts. Again your failing here I think comes down to a lack of buisness understanding on your side. Is anyone going to say the Wii was a failure because it didn't beat the PS2? No, so please, stop saying this as it's a misunderstanding of buisness from yourself.

Yes the cell was a failure - it didn't take off. One mistake doesn't make a whole product a failure though. Who has said the iphone 4 was a failure due to the antenna posistion? No one. 

Losing market share =/= failure. Still retaining a third of the market is pretty good, especially when released a year after the competition at a much higher price. 

Financial gains so far has been  a failure BUT does the game division include bluray sales as I'm guessing you didn't know that Sony own one of the only bluray disc foundrys in the world. This is again a failing to understand buisness on your behalf - please research gross and net profit. 

Your entire argument is simply wrong, it's a black and white fallacy - you think loss = failure which is far, far from the truth.

Sony is the biggest loser this gen and yet has almost outsold the xbox 360 after having been released a year later, at a higher price and has helped Sony secure the HD format....You've never studied business have you?

Ultimately if you think kicking out more of the same franchise titles will save the Wii U, ask why didn't it save the GC? Or N64? What makes these games so much more different from the Nintendo-franchise-orientated consoles of the past that all sold not particuarly well?

I think this is actually the first point you've made I can agree on: "no game really sells a system - multiple games combined sell systems." Very, VERY few games can sell a system by themselves - but SSB is that sort of game that makes you pick up the console if you have one or two other games you want to play as well.

Bluray isn't a total failure because it didn't achieve market dominance, just like X360 or PS3 wasn't total failures just because they didn't win. And therefore we can't consider Wii U a failure if it ends up selling only 20m consoles; if it makes Nintendo money and makes them stay in business it has been a relative success, and not a total failure - something you have tried to make it out to be this entire thread, no?

Sony as a whole company is a failure for the last couple of years since they're losing shit ton of money every year - and I'm not just talking about their gaming division (which has been able to make some profit, but still has lost more in the long run that its made).

All of this just shows how biased you are. Sony is losing money, is in 3rd place, lost market share etc, and Wii U (and Nintendo) is a failure just because Wii U isn't selling too well right now? Biased.

And you really seem to not understand that it was Nintendo's franchises that saved them in the N64 and GC days. And the same franchises will save them this time around. You have just stated that you don't have to dominate a market to be considered successful, which means that GC was successful in the sense that it allowed Nintendo to hang in there and make a strong come back. Can Sony or MS rely on their franchises to save them like Nintendo's games have saved them? No. MSony are too reliant on 3rd party support.

Biased.


SSB looks like it helped to sell at most 1 mill units, but other than that it's just guess work saying if people past that date bought it as the sales prior and post are almost identical. 

Bluray is in no way a failure. Fact. Claiming it's a failure in any way when it's sold over a billion discs is lunacy. Your language isn't appropriate for describing products. 20m consoles would be a failure if that is not a relevant amount of the market. If the other consoles sell 100m each, then having a market share of under 10% is a failure. Obviously this is all relevant to whole console sales. 

How Sony is doing overall is not what this topic is about. 

All of this shows you haven't the slightest clue when it comes to discussing buisness. The fact you used the black and white fallacy shows this, and deeming them "3rd place THEY LOOSE!" is rediculous as they have almost sold the same amount as the 360 and almost have a 3rd of the market in a market of 3 consoles...Oh and was released a year later. 

The N64 and GC were saved?? Their sales were really, really low. Who considers them to be successful?? Define "save".

CoD has shown that 3rd party suppport is potentially more important than exclusives. Also they look to be offering technically a LOT more than the WIi U which should help sell consoles on the promise of 1080p improved graphics. 

Baised? Please. Come back when you know how to analyse stats and correctly assess buisness without resorting to fallacies or ambigious reasoning.


Lol, going by your own logic bluray is a failure. Funny how you mention low market share. You mention something being a failure if its competitors have sold way more, well that applies to Bluray as well lol. Pretty sure DVD sells make that "1 billion disc sold" look puny. Of course you conveniently ignored this. I have a better question, who says the PS3 has been successful? Its profits are pretty low. Extra hardware power didn't help Wii vs. PS3, DS vs. PSP, or 3DS vs. Vita.



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Tatewaki75 on 20 March 2013
Osc89 said:
Tatewaki75 said:
Osc89 said:
Well the baseline is probably Gamecube sales, which will cover all the Nintendo fans. Then you add the amount of "casual" audience they get, which they seemed to overestimate. It didn't captivate people like the Wii did, and as it ages it's much less likely to suddenly become popular. So far, this doesn't make a 1st or 2nd place console. All that's left are transitioning gamers from PS3 and 360.

To me, that is the focus now. What does the Wii U offer to someone who owns a PS3/360? You can't really include any old Nintendo franchises, because if they had any interest they would have been buying Nintendo by now. I would genuinely like to know what Nintendo are thinking. I don't want the Wii U to be useless for anything other than first party games, and I want them to prove that we wouldn't all get the same experience if they went third party.

Well, I'm pretty darn sure I can't get Mario, or Smash Bros., or Zelda, or Kirby, or Metriod, ect, on the ps360. The only reason I bought a PS3 back in the day was the promise of FFXIII, which crushed my hopes and dreams. Since then I've only bought maybe 8 games on it, and only a few of them were the hot 3rd party games. I'm fairly certain there are others out there like me that aren't capivated by the newest Uncharted or Halo, and would rather sink their teeth into something like Disgaea 4 or a new 3D Mario game. 


I thought Disgaea 4 was for PS3? And every other game you mention is first party. Like I said, their old franchises aren't enough, as was proven by the sales of the Gamecube. Don't get me wrong, I have both a Gamecube and Wii and love the first party games, but I don't like the way Nintendo consoles are useless for anything other than Nintendo games. I'm not sure I can bring myself to get a Wii U as why should I support them when it feels like they have given up competing directly with Microsoft and Sony?

Disgaea 4 IS for PS3. Never said I didn't get one, just that I didn't get many games on it. I feel that a console purchase is justified if there's at least 5 must have games, regardlesss of if they're first or third party. If they're not enough for you, that's fine, but they're enough for many people, including myself, to buy Nintendo systems. 



I'm the result of someone exclusively playing Final Fantasy XI from the PS2 release till 2010, and only stopping for small bouts of catch up. 

3DS Friend Code: Tate - Uh.. stuff happened... I need to get a new 3DS 

Switch FC: SW-3272-7705-6029

If you add me, please let me know so I can add you back. =D

FFXI Character: Formally Tatewaki of Cerberus, Now Arngrim Of Sylph.  Retired forever. ; ;

FFXIV Character: Tate Raken of Hyperion

All time favorite game: Chrono Trigger. 

All time favorite Manga: One piece... Followed by Ranma 1/2. 

newwil7l on 20 March 2013

Why do you guys even bother with Mazty. We all know he is biased



Mazty on 20 March 2013
phenom08 said:
Mazty said:

SSB looks like it helped to sell at most 1 mill units, but other than that it's just guess work saying if people past that date bought it as the sales prior and post are almost identical. 

Bluray is in no way a failure. Fact. Claiming it's a failure in any way when it's sold over a billion discs is lunacy. Your language isn't appropriate for describing products. 20m consoles would be a failure if that is not a relevant amount of the market. If the other consoles sell 100m each, then having a market share of under 10% is a failure. Obviously this is all relevant to whole console sales. 

How Sony is doing overall is not what this topic is about. 

All of this shows you haven't the slightest clue when it comes to discussing buisness. The fact you used the black and white fallacy shows this, and deeming them "3rd place THEY LOOSE!" is rediculous as they have almost sold the same amount as the 360 and almost have a 3rd of the market in a market of 3 consoles...Oh and was released a year later. 

The N64 and GC were saved?? Their sales were really, really low. Who considers them to be successful?? Define "save".

CoD has shown that 3rd party suppport is potentially more important than exclusives. Also they look to be offering technically a LOT more than the WIi U which should help sell consoles on the promise of 1080p improved graphics. 

Baised? Please. Come back when you know how to analyse stats and correctly assess buisness without resorting to fallacies or ambigious reasoning.


Lol, going by your own logic bluray is a failure. Funny how you mention low market share. You mention something being a failure if its competitors have sold way more, well that applies to Bluray as well lol. Pretty sure DVD sells make that "1 billion disc sold" look puny. Of course you conveniently ignored this. I have a better question, who says the PS3 has been successful? Its profits are pretty low. Extra hardware power didn't help Wii vs. PS3, DS vs. PSP, or 3DS vs. Vita.


How is bluray a failure by my logic? Bluray sales are increasing, not decreasing, as is it's market share. If you don't understand business analysis please don't join in this conversation.

The Wii wasn't aimed at the same market as the PS3 (look at the volume of core cames), and the DS has a much stronger game line-up. Why would anyone buy a Wii U when it offers generally the same games as the much cheaper xbox 360? This is one reason the sales are so low and one reason why I doubt sales will ever pick up significantly. Even with Nintendo exclusives, core gamers will choose games that look better than the previous gen over ones that do not as that is the main driving force behind each generation of core consoles.



AshKetchum1992 on 20 March 2013

I think Mario Kart can help the Wiiu sales a lot because the franchise is more mainstream than it was in the GameCube era, thanks to the popularity of the first Wii.

And Nintendo should release a Pokemon Stadium game for WiiU , that would help the sales of the console. I'd buy that game day one.



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curl-6 on 20 March 2013
Mazty said:
curl-6 said:
Mazty said:

Did you really just mix physics with buisness analytics?

Did you really just miss the point of such an obvious metaphor?

Defending such a metaphor shows you really don't understand buiness or how to analyse it. Sorry, that's the truth. Only on the internet will people argue a point when the have  no experience in the topic at hand.

You not grasping that Brawl and NSMBW were massive system sellers shows you don't understand the video game industry.



Osc89 on 20 March 2013
Tatewaki75 said:
Osc89 said:
Tatewaki75 said:
Osc89 said:
Well the baseline is probably Gamecube sales, which will cover all the Nintendo fans. Then you add the amount of "casual" audience they get, which they seemed to overestimate. It didn't captivate people like the Wii did, and as it ages it's much less likely to suddenly become popular. So far, this doesn't make a 1st or 2nd place console. All that's left are transitioning gamers from PS3 and 360.

To me, that is the focus now. What does the Wii U offer to someone who owns a PS3/360? You can't really include any old Nintendo franchises, because if they had any interest they would have been buying Nintendo by now. I would genuinely like to know what Nintendo are thinking. I don't want the Wii U to be useless for anything other than first party games, and I want them to prove that we wouldn't all get the same experience if they went third party.

Well, I'm pretty darn sure I can't get Mario, or Smash Bros., or Zelda, or Kirby, or Metriod, ect, on the ps360. The only reason I bought a PS3 back in the day was the promise of FFXIII, which crushed my hopes and dreams. Since then I've only bought maybe 8 games on it, and only a few of them were the hot 3rd party games. I'm fairly certain there are others out there like me that aren't capivated by the newest Uncharted or Halo, and would rather sink their teeth into something like Disgaea 4 or a new 3D Mario game. 


I thought Disgaea 4 was for PS3? And every other game you mention is first party. Like I said, their old franchises aren't enough, as was proven by the sales of the Gamecube. Don't get me wrong, I have both a Gamecube and Wii and love the first party games, but I don't like the way Nintendo consoles are useless for anything other than Nintendo games. I'm not sure I can bring myself to get a Wii U as why should I support them when it feels like they have given up competing directly with Microsoft and Sony?

Disgaea 4 IS for PS3. Never said I didn't get one, just that I didn't get many games on it. I feel that a console purchase is justified if there's at least 5 must have games, regardlesss of if they're first or third party. If they're not enough for you, that's fine, but they're enough for many people, including myself, to buy Nintendo systems. 


You're probably right, 5 games seems about right for a justified console purchase. But when there are 10x that many worth getting on the other consoles just because of third party games it is a bit frustrating. Ultimately for the Wii U it will probably only take one of Mario Kart, Smash Bros or Zelda, whichever comes out first, and I'll get one. However it will only ever be for the Nintendo games, as the Wii U doesn't really offer anything to people who don't want first party games.

What I don't understand is why Nintendo make consoles if no one wants one for the hardware. If they cared about their fans, they would release a console on par with Sony and Microsoft, as we would have more games. It would then be easy for third party games to launch across all consoles. But instead they are making cheap gimmicky hardware to try and create a new fad. As a Nintendo fan, do you feel the Wii U was made for you? Or was Nintendo looking at the "soccer moms" playing angry birds on their iPads?



PSN: Osc89

NNID: Oscar89

Tatewaki75 on 20 March 2013
Osc89 said:
Tatewaki75 said:
Osc89 said:
Tatewaki75 said:
Osc89 said:
Well the baseline is probably Gamecube sales, which will cover all the Nintendo fans. Then you add the amount of "casual" audience they get, which they seemed to overestimate. It didn't captivate people like the Wii did, and as it ages it's much less likely to suddenly become popular. So far, this doesn't make a 1st or 2nd place console. All that's left are transitioning gamers from PS3 and 360.

To me, that is the focus now. What does the Wii U offer to someone who owns a PS3/360? You can't really include any old Nintendo franchises, because if they had any interest they would have been buying Nintendo by now. I would genuinely like to know what Nintendo are thinking. I don't want the Wii U to be useless for anything other than first party games, and I want them to prove that we wouldn't all get the same experience if they went third party.

Well, I'm pretty darn sure I can't get Mario, or Smash Bros., or Zelda, or Kirby, or Metriod, ect, on the ps360. The only reason I bought a PS3 back in the day was the promise of FFXIII, which crushed my hopes and dreams. Since then I've only bought maybe 8 games on it, and only a few of them were the hot 3rd party games. I'm fairly certain there are others out there like me that aren't capivated by the newest Uncharted or Halo, and would rather sink their teeth into something like Disgaea 4 or a new 3D Mario game. 


I thought Disgaea 4 was for PS3? And every other game you mention is first party. Like I said, their old franchises aren't enough, as was proven by the sales of the Gamecube. Don't get me wrong, I have both a Gamecube and Wii and love the first party games, but I don't like the way Nintendo consoles are useless for anything other than Nintendo games. I'm not sure I can bring myself to get a Wii U as why should I support them when it feels like they have given up competing directly with Microsoft and Sony?

Disgaea 4 IS for PS3. Never said I didn't get one, just that I didn't get many games on it. I feel that a console purchase is justified if there's at least 5 must have games, regardlesss of if they're first or third party. If they're not enough for you, that's fine, but they're enough for many people, including myself, to buy Nintendo systems. 


You're probably right, 5 games seems about right for a justified console purchase. But when there are 10x that many worth getting on the other consoles just because of third party games it is a bit frustrating. Ultimately for the Wii U it will probably only take one of Mario Kart, Smash Bros or Zelda, whichever comes out first, and I'll get one. However it will only ever be for the Nintendo games, as the Wii U doesn't really offer anything to people who don't want first party games.

What I don't understand is why Nintendo make consoles if no one wants one for the hardware. If they cared about their fans, they would release a console on par with Sony and Microsoft, as we would have more games. It would then be easy for third party games to launch across all consoles. But instead they are making cheap gimmicky hardware to try and create a new fad. As a Nintendo fan, do you feel the Wii U was made for you? Or was Nintendo looking at the "soccer moms" playing angry birds on their iPads?

To me, consoles have always just been a means to an end. I've made some silly purchasing desisions in the past. (I bought a sega saturn because it came with 3 free games, Virtua Fighter, Daytona USA and a shooting game I never played.)  I could understand if people were upset about the console if they released something that's barely better than the Wii graphics wise, but there was definitely a leap, and it's not like the games on Wii U look bad. I've been playing games a LONG time, and stuff like the original mario bros. is still fresh in my mind. My favorite consoles last gen was the DS, simply because it had such a great library of games. (I admit though, I bought it solely as a pokemon machine at first.) I also see your point about one system having more games than the other and it doesn't seem justified. Up until a few years ago, I never really thought about that. I would always buy a nintendo console, and usually a sony console. I had more PS2 games than Gamecube games, but I never once regretted buying a gamecube. Same with PS1 and N64. (Still don't know what I was thinking with that Sega saturn, Specially since no stores near me stocked saturn games anymore.) This gen will be no different. I'll own a wii u, and I'll own a PS4. Recently though, I've noticed I've been buying less and less third party games, simply because I don't enjoy first or third person shooters and the market seems oversaturated with them. 

 

Edit: As an answer to your last question, I'm nore sure WHAT to feel about the gamepad yet. I'm saving my opinions until I can spend a good chunk of time using it. I was kinda hoping the next nintendo platform would follow suit and be cheaper than the compitition like the Wii was. Then again considering that my favorite nintendo system since the SNES, the DS, has that dual screen feel, I'll prolly feel right at home. I wouldn't have minded a controller like the wii u gamepad for the PS2 when I was addicted to FFXI. 



I'm the result of someone exclusively playing Final Fantasy XI from the PS2 release till 2010, and only stopping for small bouts of catch up. 

3DS Friend Code: Tate - Uh.. stuff happened... I need to get a new 3DS 

Switch FC: SW-3272-7705-6029

If you add me, please let me know so I can add you back. =D

FFXI Character: Formally Tatewaki of Cerberus, Now Arngrim Of Sylph.  Retired forever. ; ;

FFXIV Character: Tate Raken of Hyperion

All time favorite game: Chrono Trigger. 

All time favorite Manga: One piece... Followed by Ranma 1/2. 

DanneSandin on 21 March 2013
newwil7l said:
Why do you guys even bother with Mazty. We all know he is biased

And ain't that the truth! Amen brah!



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

curl-6 on 21 March 2013
DanneSandin said:
newwil7l said:
Why do you guys even bother with Mazty. We all know he is biased

And ain't that the truth! Amen brah!

Have any of you guys ever seen him posting without bashing Nintendo? I haven't, but I could just have missed it.