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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Regarding the PS4 announcement - "More, More, More—How Do You Like It? "

Kwaidd said:

A good read.  Many important points hit, such as the limits of technology spurring on amazing creativity vs high tech allowing more lazy shiny.  What was technology when electricity or the light bulb or telephone were made possible?  How many years later, and we are excited about a few more polygons etc over what the prev. gen gave us?  I totally get this guys point of view.

A friend of mine asked me yesterday, "what does it offer me over my ps3?"  And really, what does it truly offer thats new and fresh?  I guess, not a lot other than software support over the long term when they decide to drop the not good enough ps3.

Now, I'm not saying there won't be stellar gaming experiences to be enjoyed on the system...because of course there will be.  But, is it really that much better than we have experienced in the past because of greater power?  Or will it be more of the same goodness with a shinier cover because devs will be looking at ways to make the games look better, rather than take what power they had and find new ways to utilize it or find fascinating new ways to design games to make up for the fact that they cannot go any further down the road of pretty?

A good read indeed

I don't really understand this argument, this idea that gaming hardware shouldn't advance.  It doesn't even come close to making sense to me.  Without even trying, I can think of games that wouldn't have been the same or even possible on older hardware.

How would Shadow of the Colossus have played on the SNES?  Journey on the PS1 (it couldn't)?  Would Mario Galaxy have been possible on the NES?  Racing games are obviously better now, RTS games are obviously better on superior hardware.  An entire genre, the FPS, has been improved by leaps and bounds from generation to generation.

All improved hardware does is to give artists more freedom.  How anyone can argue against that, I cannot understand.

And before anyone says that all I care about is graphics, no.  I don't give a rat's fuzzy ass if games never looked better than KZ3 or Uncharted.  I'm a PC gamer but I never even check my settings.  That's not what this is about.



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VGKing said:
sales2099 said:
VGKing said:
RolStoppable said:
A wonderful read. More horsepower and better graphics don't automatically lead to better games. Gaming is held back by technology, but not in the sense many gamers would think.

It's more than just more horsepower and better graphics. It is  a console built by developers for developers. I can't stress how incredible this is.
PS4 has 8 GB of UNIFIED GDDR5 RAM. It is extremely easy to develop for and from the current leaks(which were all pretty much true) the next XBox will take a backseat next-gen for the PS4. Not only is PS4 more powerful, but it is easier to work with.

PS4 isn't held back by its tech specs, it's held back by developers' imaginations and creativity. 

Xbox has done that since day 1 by making a console thats developer friendly. It must feel nice to be finally be able to speak of PS4 this way. Funny enough PS fans never really appreciated 360 enough for being more developer friendly....wonder what changed :P

maybe compared to the PS3, but the 360 wasn't anywhere near as developer-friendly as the PS4 is going to be and the next Xbox.

If the 360 weas so easy to developer then Microsoft wouldn't be siwtching architectures.

Now thats just wishful thinking combined with ignorance that the 360 was clearly made similar to a PC archetecture.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

artur-fernand said:
benao87 said:
artur-fernand said:
Yet another huge text saying how not only Sony is doomed, but the entire industry of console gaming will eventually perish. Jesus Christ...

Personally, Andrew House could have entered the stage, showed that image with a shitton of third-parties, said "PlayStation 4, Holydays 2013", walked away, and I'd still be happy. It's gonna have GAMES and isn't that the most important thing? But no, if it doesn't offer something "REVOLUTIONARY" then it will certainly crash and burn.

I don't know about you mate, but studios are not profiting every quarter, and you know what happened to THQ.

Problem with gaming enthusiast is that everything is readed as a jab or an insult. The guy is just questioning some statements of the conferences (I'm particularly fixated in those made by Cage) where they were doing the exact same thing that Pezus is accusing Nintendo fans of. I reckon it's not really healthy, but whatever.

And regarding all those posts regarding Nintendo, I must be terrible at reading, as I missed that part when the author praises the WiiU as the industry saviour.

I wonder if the author of the article insulted somebody's mother.

Yes, some studios suffer major loses, other studios just close altogether, but go as far as to say that the video game industry WILL eventually perish is a very bold statement. Console sales have only been rising generation per generation, and I honestly don't see video games dying.


Here's the last 3 paragraphs where he concludes:

Creativity thrives under limitations. People who love games understand this implicitly, since the best players find the most creative ways to succeed within the confines of the rules. The Great Train Robbery is a masterpiece not in spite of its limitations but because of them. So if David Cage doesn’t think he can produce an emotional work of art with a PlayStation 3 and an eight-figure budget, maybe he shouldn’t be in the art-making business.

Expanding the technological capabilities of our game machines is not inherently bad, but treating new tech as a magic bullet is a self-destructive delusion (if a familiar one). The reason that so many games suck is not because the technology is too modest. The reason that so many games suck is because so many games suck. Making art is hard. No microchip changes that.

And yet Sony’s developers insist on the myth of “more.” More polygons and more gigabytes because surely this time, they will lead to the promised land of creative expression. In practice, this dogma hasn’t done much to improve games. Quite the opposite. As production budgets balloon and the cost of entry shuts out independent voices, the worship of “more” is likely to be the ruination of console gaming as we know it. The industry’s arms race with itself simply is not sustainable. Yet here’s Sony, blithely promising to build a bigger gun. They’d better watch out—the recoil’s a bitch.

The bolded part is pretty much his main argument, he does says that "console gaming as we know" will change, but that is already happening or did you miss the 'social' tone of the conference, or the ammount of investments of big studios on social games. For good or bad, things are changing, now, tell me again how these last lines of the article are wrong.



M.U.G.E.N said:


Entirely depends on the vision of the creator. Better specs means more freedom to do persue dreams and goals of creators without constraints. This is why devs from teams like Epic are just so giddy about specs of the PS4. It's dev friendly design and plenty of power to do what they want to do. The important thing to understand is just because there is a lot of power, you don't have to use all of it. It just removes limits for those are affected. This is what sony was explaining at the event. Removing limits/boundaries for creation. 

I mean if you check the previous few posts you will notice how the creator of Witness, needed the extra power to make his game a reality. This is why, as he explains, the team skipped the last gen as well as even the wiiu.

Maybe the better way to put it would be that realistic graphics or huge budgets aren't necessary for imaginitive titles. Because a large game (meaning how big the story, etc.) does need newer engines and such. 



the PS4 is awesome. So I dont give a damn about this kind of articles.

I will buy a PS4 first day because I love everything we know about it.



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pokoko said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:
pokoko said:
[...]
[...]

No, I'm sorry, but you're wrong.  It's a sophomoric and bitter piece.  Read it again and note all the hyperbole and insults.  Note all the strawman arguments and false information.  That's not professional at all.

As for the idea that improving your hardware hurts gaming, that's ridiculous.  It's like saying we should take brushes away from painters and give them pieces of grass because it will make their paintings better.  It's just sophistry.  Not even Nintendo believes that, as every single device they've made has been more powerful than previous models.

Even then, the entire point of Sony's presentation wasn't "moar power", it was about removing artificial barriers.  Are the artists themselves, the developers, complaining about the Cell being replaced by normalized PC architecture?  Are they angry that more RAM lets them do what they want?  If so, then I'll listen to his point, but I haven't heard anything like that.

The writer just wants gaming to fit his vision, that's all, and no other.  He doesn't want explosions, he doesn't want FPS, he doesn't want anything that he won't enjoy to exist.  And that's sad and hateful.  I loathe people like that.

Hyperbole is a literary device, and I think the author uses it expertly in the piece. I'll concede your point about it being gratuitously argumentative and insulting.

But that doesn't change the veracity of his thesis, which is that power alone does not a good game make. If anything, a preoccupation with power will hurt the medium, not improve it. Who knows? Maybe PS4 will surprise all of us, and translate all that horsepower under the hood into something progressive. All I know is that there is something essential to a video game, and it doesn't require state-of-the-art graphics, sound, physics, etc.

As to your last paragraph, doesn't everyone want his hobby or passion of choice to conform to his ideal? Why invest so much time, money, and energy in a hobby and not care in which direction it goes?



benao87 said:
Here's the last 3 paragraphs where he concludes:

Creativity thrives under limitations. People who love games understand this implicitly, since the best players find the most creative ways to succeed within the confines of the rules. The Great Train Robbery is a masterpiece not in spite of its limitations but because of them. So if David Cage doesn’t think he can produce an emotional work of art with a PlayStation 3 and an eight-figure budget, maybe he shouldn’t be in the art-making business.

Expanding the technological capabilities of our game machines is not inherently bad, but treating new tech as a magic bullet is a self-destructive delusion (if a familiar one). The reason that so many games suck is not because the technology is too modest. The reason that so many games suck is because so many games suck. Making art is hard. No microchip changes that.

And yet Sony’s developers insist on the myth of “more.” More polygons and more gigabytes because surely this time, they will lead to the promised land of creative expression. In practice, this dogma hasn’t done much to improve games. Quite the opposite. As production budgets balloon and the cost of entry shuts out independent voices, the worship of “more” is likely to be the ruination of console gaming as we know it. The industry’s arms race with itself simply is not sustainable. Yet here’s Sony, blithely promising to build a bigger gun. They’d better watch out—the recoil’s a bitch.

The bolded part is pretty much his main argument, he does says that "console gaming as we know" will change, but that is already happening or did you miss the 'social' tone of the conference, or the ammount of investments of big studios on social games. For good or bad, things are changing, now, tell me again how these last lines of the article are wrong.

Actually the paragraph that bothers me is the very last one.

 

And yet Sony’s developers insist on the myth of “more.” More polygons and more gigabytes because surely this time, they will lead to the promised land of creative expression. In practice, this dogma hasn’t done much to improve games. Quite the opposite. As production budgets balloon and the cost of entry shuts out independent voices, the worship of “more” is likely to be the ruination of console gaming as we know it. The industry’s arms race with itself simply is not sustainable. Yet here’s Sony, blithely promising to build a bigger gun. They’d better watch out—the recoil’s a bitch.

 

See what I mean? "The RUINATION of console gaming as we know it"? That's pretty exagerated.



NintendoPie said:
VGKing said:
RolStoppable said:
A wonderful read. More horsepower and better graphics don't automatically lead to better games. Gaming is held back by technology, but not in the sense many gamers would think.

It's more than just more horsepower and better graphics. It is  a console built by developers for developers. I can't stress how incredible this is.
PS4 has 8 GB of UNIFIED GDDR5 RAM. It is extremely easy to develop for and from the current leaks(which were all pretty much true) the next XBox will take a backseat next-gen for the PS4. Not only is PS4 more powerful, but it is easier to work with.

PS4 isn't held back by its tech specs, it's held back by developers' imaginations and creativity. 

That's a great thing to say. But, high-end, amazing specs aren't needed for imagination or creativity. That's where it goes wrong.

Battlefield 3 isn't possible on the Wii. Like it or not, power is important for imagination and creativity.



UnitSmiley said:
There are a few things that can be criticized about the conference such as Squares showing (or lack thereof) but this article is basically complaining the PS4 is more powerful lol.

Sony made a fairly powerful new console that developers are praising for it's ease of use when it comes to developing games. Apparently somehow that's a bad thing. I highly believe this author would be writing negative things about Sony no matter what the PS4 was capable of.

I agree.  It is almost like if someone payed the dude to write something bad about having a powerful console.    When it is obviously something good when it is accesible (like the PS4), because game developers will have lots of freedom to make games.  I really dont know WTH that is a bad thing.



RolStoppable said:
VGKing said:

Why was Wii rejected by the industry though?

Because it was severely underpowered and had none of the big 3rd party games such as Grand Theft Auto or Assassin's Creed. Wii U is the solution to the Wii problem, but its too late.

@bold
I can tell you didn't see the Sony conference. Long Story Short, the philosophy of the PS4 is a platform that removes all limitations. There's more than enough fast ram, there's social features to encourage social interaction, there's Cloud technology, smartphone/tablet/Vita integration and of course more than enough power to satisfy power-hungry developers. Probably most important of all is the support of all 3rd party developers. Something Nintendo would kill for.

The Wii was rejected, because publishers couldn't simply outspend their competitors. Since the ceiling for graphics wasn't as high as on other systems, it meant that they had to compete with Nintendo on creativity and imagination. That's the hard way to sell games. It's much easier to sell an average game with pretty graphics.

There will always be technical limitations. Trust me, developers will want more power in the not so distant future. They always do.

Of there is a ceiling, but developers won't reach it so easily.