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Forums - Gaming Discussion - John Carmack, Frostbite 2 tech director, Crytek, and Gearbox endorse PS4 spec

Mummelmann said:

Come on, seriously, that UE4 comparison does not favor the PS4 at all. And they're also at different levels of zoom, different angle and different lighting.

And like vlad has pointed out, there is no depth of field or particle effects and the flames are rendered poorly. Overall, the difference is big and not in the PS4's favor, not even close.

PC's won't need to play catchup, you can fire up a 4k display with all effects and full AA and all filters, to suggest that consoles have the best visuals and a tech advantage is folly. Metro 2033, which came out in march 2011 looks a lot better than anything shown for the PS4, at least with everything maxed out in DX11 mode (no mods). The particle effects are among the best ever seen, the lighting and textures are grand and the depth of field is amazing both in brighter and darker environments. Not to mention how incredible some games can look with mods. Unfair comparison? Not really, that's one out of many distinct advantages of PC gaming.

People are getting carried away with the PS4 and consoles in general, its always the consoles that are playing catch-up with the PC, not the other way around.
I don't know why a lot of console gamers think that if a game looks bright and shiny, it has world class visuals, there's more to it than that.

Who's PC? My PC? The PC's sitting at Best Buy?

Comparing Console and PC is dumb imo. But comparing a Console to a custom build PC is beyond dumb. Of course many of these tech demo's look better on PC than Consoles. Those PC's are using GPU's that retail for more $$$ than the PS4 itself will cost. 

You can buy a PS3 right now at Best Buy for $250. What PC are they selling for $250 at Best Buy that out performs the PS3? 



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Subie_Greg said:
Mummelmann said:

Come on, seriously, that UE4 comparison does not favor the PS4 at all. And they're also at different levels of zoom, different angle and different lighting.

And like vlad has pointed out, there is no depth of field or particle effects and the flames are rendered poorly. Overall, the difference is big and not in the PS4's favor, not even close.

PC's won't need to play catchup, you can fire up a 4k display with all effects and full AA and all filters, to suggest that consoles have the best visuals and a tech advantage is folly. Metro 2033, which came out in march 2011 looks a lot better than anything shown for the PS4, at least with everything maxed out in DX11 mode (no mods). The particle effects are among the best ever seen, the lighting and textures are grand and the depth of field is amazing both in brighter and darker environments. Not to mention how incredible some games can look with mods. Unfair comparison? Not really, that's one out of many distinct advantages of PC gaming.

People are getting carried away with the PS4 and consoles in general, its always the consoles that are playing catch-up with the PC, not the other way around.
I don't know why a lot of console gamers think that if a game looks bright and shiny, it has world class visuals, there's more to it than that.

Who's PC? My PC? The PC's sitting at Best Buy?

Comparing Console and PC is dumb imo. But comparing a Console to a custom build PC is beyond dumb. Of course many of these tech demo's look better on PC than Consoles. Those PC's are using GPU's that retail for more $$$ than the PS4 itself will cost. 

You can buy a PS3 right now at Best Buy for $250. What PC are they selling for $250 at Best Buy that out performs the PS3? 

When people say "PC's will be playing catch up", that implies that PC's are unable to keep up with the tech when this is clearly not the case. This is one of the biggest advantages the PC has as a platform.

I agree that comparing PC's and consoles is dumb, that's kind of what I'm implying, the PC will always be technically superior.



Mummelmann said:
Subie_Greg said:
Mummelmann said:

Come on, seriously, that UE4 comparison does not favor the PS4 at all. And they're also at different levels of zoom, different angle and different lighting.

And like vlad has pointed out, there is no depth of field or particle effects and the flames are rendered poorly. Overall, the difference is big and not in the PS4's favor, not even close.

PC's won't need to play catchup, you can fire up a 4k display with all effects and full AA and all filters, to suggest that consoles have the best visuals and a tech advantage is folly. Metro 2033, which came out in march 2011 looks a lot better than anything shown for the PS4, at least with everything maxed out in DX11 mode (no mods). The particle effects are among the best ever seen, the lighting and textures are grand and the depth of field is amazing both in brighter and darker environments. Not to mention how incredible some games can look with mods. Unfair comparison? Not really, that's one out of many distinct advantages of PC gaming.

People are getting carried away with the PS4 and consoles in general, its always the consoles that are playing catch-up with the PC, not the other way around.
I don't know why a lot of console gamers think that if a game looks bright and shiny, it has world class visuals, there's more to it than that.

Who's PC? My PC? The PC's sitting at Best Buy?

Comparing Console and PC is dumb imo. But comparing a Console to a custom build PC is beyond dumb. Of course many of these tech demo's look better on PC than Consoles. Those PC's are using GPU's that retail for more $$$ than the PS4 itself will cost. 

You can buy a PS3 right now at Best Buy for $250. What PC are they selling for $250 at Best Buy that out performs the PS3? 

When people say "PC's will be playing catch up", that implies that PC's are unable to keep up with the tech when this is clearly not the case. This is one of the biggest advantages the PC has as a platform.

I agree that comparing PC's and consoles is dumb, that's kind of what I'm implying, the PC will always be technically superior.

Exactly! How come you are the only one smart enough to figure that out lol

Gaming needs the PC gaming community. They move graphics and tech forward. But Gaming also needs Console community. A good portion of the money made on games themselves come from the Console side of things.

Gaming is a hobby/passion for Gamers. But it's a business for the Game Creators. Gaming needs both Consoles and PC's. Why we fight about this as a community is unknown to me 



Subie_Greg said:
Mummelmann said:
Subie_Greg said:
Mummelmann said:

Come on, seriously, that UE4 comparison does not favor the PS4 at all. And they're also at different levels of zoom, different angle and different lighting.

And like vlad has pointed out, there is no depth of field or particle effects and the flames are rendered poorly. Overall, the difference is big and not in the PS4's favor, not even close.

PC's won't need to play catchup, you can fire up a 4k display with all effects and full AA and all filters, to suggest that consoles have the best visuals and a tech advantage is folly. Metro 2033, which came out in march 2011 looks a lot better than anything shown for the PS4, at least with everything maxed out in DX11 mode (no mods). The particle effects are among the best ever seen, the lighting and textures are grand and the depth of field is amazing both in brighter and darker environments. Not to mention how incredible some games can look with mods. Unfair comparison? Not really, that's one out of many distinct advantages of PC gaming.

People are getting carried away with the PS4 and consoles in general, its always the consoles that are playing catch-up with the PC, not the other way around.
I don't know why a lot of console gamers think that if a game looks bright and shiny, it has world class visuals, there's more to it than that.

Who's PC? My PC? The PC's sitting at Best Buy?

Comparing Console and PC is dumb imo. But comparing a Console to a custom build PC is beyond dumb. Of course many of these tech demo's look better on PC than Consoles. Those PC's are using GPU's that retail for more $$$ than the PS4 itself will cost. 

You can buy a PS3 right now at Best Buy for $250. What PC are they selling for $250 at Best Buy that out performs the PS3? 

When people say "PC's will be playing catch up", that implies that PC's are unable to keep up with the tech when this is clearly not the case. This is one of the biggest advantages the PC has as a platform.

I agree that comparing PC's and consoles is dumb, that's kind of what I'm implying, the PC will always be technically superior.

Exactly! How come you are the only one smart enough to figure that out lol

Gaming needs the PC gaming community. They move graphics and tech forward. But Gaming also needs Console community. A good portion of the money made on games themselves come from the Console side of things.

Gaming is a hobby/passion for Gamers. But it's a business for the Game Creators. Gaming needs both Consoles and PC's. Why we fight about this as a community is unknown to me 


PC gaming and development is almost like Formula 1, you test and develop features and hardware to utilize on more commercial models (TCS, ASM, ABS and almost every safety feature of modern cars come from motorsport). Its true that the PC and console scene need each other, I've always owned at least one console in addition to the PC, its the perfect match if you truly love games and gaming.

Besides, the PC is an evergreen for Indie titles through digital distribution and the possibilities with emulators and other implements are endless!



Mummelmann said:
Subie_Greg said:
Mummelmann said:
Subie_Greg said:
Mummelmann said:

Come on, seriously, that UE4 comparison does not favor the PS4 at all. And they're also at different levels of zoom, different angle and different lighting.

And like vlad has pointed out, there is no depth of field or particle effects and the flames are rendered poorly. Overall, the difference is big and not in the PS4's favor, not even close.

PC's won't need to play catchup, you can fire up a 4k display with all effects and full AA and all filters, to suggest that consoles have the best visuals and a tech advantage is folly. Metro 2033, which came out in march 2011 looks a lot better than anything shown for the PS4, at least with everything maxed out in DX11 mode (no mods). The particle effects are among the best ever seen, the lighting and textures are grand and the depth of field is amazing both in brighter and darker environments. Not to mention how incredible some games can look with mods. Unfair comparison? Not really, that's one out of many distinct advantages of PC gaming.

People are getting carried away with the PS4 and consoles in general, its always the consoles that are playing catch-up with the PC, not the other way around.
I don't know why a lot of console gamers think that if a game looks bright and shiny, it has world class visuals, there's more to it than that.

Who's PC? My PC? The PC's sitting at Best Buy?

Comparing Console and PC is dumb imo. But comparing a Console to a custom build PC is beyond dumb. Of course many of these tech demo's look better on PC than Consoles. Those PC's are using GPU's that retail for more $$$ than the PS4 itself will cost. 

You can buy a PS3 right now at Best Buy for $250. What PC are they selling for $250 at Best Buy that out performs the PS3? 

When people say "PC's will be playing catch up", that implies that PC's are unable to keep up with the tech when this is clearly not the case. This is one of the biggest advantages the PC has as a platform.

I agree that comparing PC's and consoles is dumb, that's kind of what I'm implying, the PC will always be technically superior.

Exactly! How come you are the only one smart enough to figure that out lol

Gaming needs the PC gaming community. They move graphics and tech forward. But Gaming also needs Console community. A good portion of the money made on games themselves come from the Console side of things.

Gaming is a hobby/passion for Gamers. But it's a business for the Game Creators. Gaming needs both Consoles and PC's. Why we fight about this as a community is unknown to me 


PC gaming and development is almost like Formula 1, you test and develop features and hardware to utilize on more commercial models (TCS, ASM, ABS and almost every safety feature of modern cars come from motorsport).
Its true that the PC and console scene need each other, I've always owned at least one console in addition to the PC, its the perfect match if you truly love games and gaming.

Besides, the PC is an evergreen for Indie titles through digital distribution and the possibilities with emulators and other implements are endless!

THIS

Something that Consoles should have been doing since 2006 is a big push for Digital games. They are starting to now, but should have happened sooner. With all the tears shed about Used Games, I am surprised that Digital Games wasn't the answer they came up with. Make them ready to buy and download same time as retail release (or even allow preorder and predownload) and make them slightly cheaper than retail. 

I bought Hitman for PC as a Digital for $50 day one. Console version $60 at retail. Somethings wrong there lol

Also Console needs to lower Digital price when Retail does. Too many times have I seen a Console game new at Best Buy for $40 while the PSN store still has it at $60. Not used copy either. Has to change



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torok said:
thranx said:
KBG29 said:
I think you are again seeing PS4 as a PC and not a closed system. Every generation we go through this, and every gen it's the same thing. Even thought these consoles indvidual parts are not as complex as the PCs best, the way they are integrated together make them much more powerful than they look. Remember that with the PS4 people will be coding directly to the chips, no directx or other API. The chips always have custom interfaces allowing direct access to eachother that is just not possible on PC. Being a set in stone spec devs know exactly what they are working with.

With that said here is what is great about this for the PC. Right now PS3/360 and low mid range laptop and desktop cards are the baseline. Devs have to make the games with those specs in mind because, that's were the userbase is. With PS4, and hopefully XB3 both having 8GB of memory, and similar to PC tech, they can start to make those the minimum spec. That means High end GPU's will start to see games that actually take advantage of them, and that means nvidia and amd wll start to push the limits more. I expect to see GPU's with 8GB GDDR5 in no time, and they will be followed by 10GB and 12GB in no time. 

I dont think that is possible. I am not a programmer so i can be wrong. but i think that statement is completley wrong and not even possible.


It's actually correct. On consoles, devs have access to lower level APIs and can optimize the code for the hardware. That allows a much bigger performance using weaker hardwares. It's (almost) like programming on Java/C# or C, the latter one give way more performance.

I agree with that. he said with no API at all. thats what i didn't think could be done. I know a set console with set hardware is easier to get max performace out of vs a computer with differing hardware



ps4 will single-handedly drive the graphics bar to a whole new level. it's like a PC on steroids with 2 prosthetic legs and a gun, there's just no match, someone broke into the house & is in the bathroom! long live kaz! sony ftw!



Turkish said:
vlad321 said:
I am not surprised. It's basically a mid range PC as it stands (maybe even a decent one, but definitely mid/low-mid by the time it comes out). I am even willing to bet that it has so much RAM in the first place is so it can run the OS and the other random crap in the background.... like a PC. Honestly, given the architecture, any reason why a game is on a PS4 and not a PC is publisher politics and nothing else.

Which explains Carmack, he knows how to do PC very well.


A high end pc let alone a midrange one cannot display the PS4 graphics, PS4 is highly optimized because its a fixed platform. We have these discussions every gen, try playing games like Uncharted 3 on a pc with comparable specs to PS3.  8GB GDDR5 ram means amazing textures and detail, expect the high end pcs playing catchup to the PS4 for atleast 18 months when PS4 comes out.

I can easily build a PC stronger than the WII U for $280.  Far Cry 3 on PC can be maxed out with a $500 build.  It looks every bit as good as Killzone did.   Don't kid yourself, the PS4 is a $500-$600 build for $400.   That makes it a great deal, but calm down console kids...

P.S.  I am getting PS4 day 1 and I love killzone.



Prediction for console Lifetime sales:

Wii:100-120 million, PS3:80-110 million, 360:70-100 million

[Prediction Made 11/5/2009]

3DS: 65m, PSV: 22m, Wii U: 18-22m, PS4: 80-120m, X1: 35-55m

I gauruntee the PS5 comes out after only 5-6 years after the launch of the PS4.

[Prediction Made 6/18/2014]

Eddie_Raja said:
Turkish said:
vlad321 said:
I am not surprised. It's basically a mid range PC as it stands (maybe even a decent one, but definitely mid/low-mid by the time it comes out). I am even willing to bet that it has so much RAM in the first place is so it can run the OS and the other random crap in the background.... like a PC. Honestly, given the architecture, any reason why a game is on a PS4 and not a PC is publisher politics and nothing else.

Which explains Carmack, he knows how to do PC very well.


A high end pc let alone a midrange one cannot display the PS4 graphics, PS4 is highly optimized because its a fixed platform. We have these discussions every gen, try playing games like Uncharted 3 on a pc with comparable specs to PS3.  8GB GDDR5 ram means amazing textures and detail, expect the high end pcs playing catchup to the PS4 for atleast 18 months when PS4 comes out.

I can easily build a PC stronger than the WII U for $280.  Far Cry 3 on PC can be maxed out with a $500 build.  It looks every bit as good as Killzone did.   Don't kid yourself, the PS4 is a $500-$600 build for $400.   That makes it a great deal, but calm down console kids...

P.S.  I am getting PS4 day 1 and I love killzone.


Care to share a link for that PC at $250 that outperforms the PS3/360. How about that PC at $400 that outperforms the PS4



x86 => much easier to develop for.