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Forums - Gaming - You people want MOAR Power in 8th Gen consoles, but........

Well maybe EA can finally go under.
Granted I love Dead Space and Bioware games, It's kinda a necessary evil at this point for more companies to go under.



It's just that simple.

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Developers want more power. More power means better looking games, more intelligent AI etc, etc and the potential for far better games overall. The consoles with the oomph are the ones the developers are likely to support with in turn push up the sales. This is evident from the way many of them dismissed the wii u.

The wii sold a lot of consoles without third party support but it is looking very likely that this underpower console thing that nintendo insist on doing isn't going to work this time around.

The truth is processing power rules with the developers and it is has always played a part for the consumer, seems this will be the case even more next gen.

BTW I do not believe developers when they say PS and xbox regular game prices will stay the same next gen anymore than I would a politician telling me that my taxes and the cost of living will stay the same next year. I simply do not believe it.



justinian said:
Developers want more power. More power means better looking games, more intelligent AI etc, etc and the potential for far better games overall. The consoles with the oomph are the ones the developers are likely to support with in turn push up the sales. This is evident from the way many of them dismissed the wii u.

The wii sold a lot of consoles without third party support but it is looking very likely that this underpower console thing that nintendo insist on doing isn't going to work this time around.

The truth is processing power rules with the developers and it is has always played a part for the consumer, seems this will be the case even more next gen.

BTW I do not believe developers when they say PS and xbox regular game prices will stay the same next gen anymore than I would a politician telling me that my taxes and the cost of living will stay the same next year. I simply do not believe it.


As time passes tech gets cheap.   The only reason why PS360 costs $60 is because publishers needed to make their Wii games appealing.    If a PS3 game costs $50 and a Wii game costs $50, according to you which one people would think that is outrageous to have that price?  So instead of making Wii games cheaper they made PS360 games more expensive.   Think about it, why the same version of a game that is also available for PC costs $50 and not $60??? 

When next gen enters overdrive, it will require less resources to make "previous gen" games, making them cheaper to make; and the "current gen" games will cost just about the same as it is right now.



badgenome said:
Epic says costs will double next gen, but Ubisoft and Take-Two says they should stay about the same. Given Ubi's awesome week, I'm going with them.

lol Gears 1 had a budget of $10m and Gears 2 $12m. With $20m-$24m they would still be below the current gen average of AAA games.

Also better looking games don't necessarily equal higher budgets. The PC ports already use better textures, new effects and support higher resolutions. Simply using them for PS4/Xbox³ will make games look automaticall much better than last gen games without spending additional money.


@OP

No one expects that Sony and Microsoft make money purely off their console for the next few years. That's one of the advantages of console gaming actually. An equal gaming computer would cost you far more than one of these consoles, because Sony and MS (and now Nintendo) are prepared to sell the console at a loss.

Also we don't know how many games Nintendo needs to sell to make a profit off the WiiU. They just said more than one, which could mean a lot of things. 1-2 games is certainly an optimistic assumption. Expect the WiiU to be more expensive than that.



Mazty said:
Turkish said:

Nintendo takes a loss with WiiU because of the GamePad, the console itself shouldn't be much more expensive than the PS360. Afterall WiiU specs wise is not above said consoles, save for more(but slower) ram.

4K will happen next gen, PS4 gpu will have 32 ROPs, enough for 4K.


4k may never happen for gaming - who the *** plays at that resolution? 2560 is adequate for the size of gaming screens, so there really is no need to surpass that, more so when we consider 4k TV's are for most people impractically large. 

If you think the PS4 can game at 4k you've no idea what you're talking about. Even $1000 GPU's couldn't game at that resolution with a game with decent graphics. 

I agree it's unnecessary and extremely power demanding. If he's lucky he'll be able to play PS2 games at 4k, but no full PS4 game will be able to do that.
A PSN game maybe but only if it's extremely simple.
Either way it's quite redundant.



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Metallicube said:

Yikes, guess I pushed a button there.

I love how with the success of Wii, it's always "Oh well Nintendo was just lucky, just fortunate they stumbled upon the right thing," like they didn't know what they were doing. Wii U's strategy is nothing like Wii's. The point of Wii was that it was very user friendly, that easy to use Wiimote, combined with games that were easy to jump right into. Wii U on the other hand has this massive intimidating gamepad, and most of its focus has shifted back to Gamecube style niche games. Hell I've been gaming for over 20 years, and even I was hesitant to pick up that monstrosity of a controller they call the gamepad. But I digress..

More power is fine, until it reaches the point where the majority of developers can no longer sustain themselves because of increasing costs, which I see us heading towards next gen, especially with the economy the way it is. This is preciesly WHY the Wii was created in the first place. It was meant to weather the storm of a tough economy with its low costs and mass appeal. But now all three companies, yes even Nintendo, seem to be retreating back to the upper tier of gamers, which is going to limit their appeal and thus their sales. This, combined with skyrocketing development costs, cannot be a good thing. I'm only using logic here. There is going to likely be further consolidation and companies going bankrupt, and perhaps even collapse if costs get too high. But hey, at least Sony and MS fans can boast about their better graphics!

Why would Nintendo fans be scared of the power gap? They certainly weren't during the Wii years, and that looks to be a far bigger gap than this generation. Because of third parties? Nintendo hasn't gotten third party support since the SNES days. We're used to this by now. Because of sales? If you look at your history, not only does the most powerful console never win, but actually the least powerful console is usually the one to become the most successful.

Button, no.  I just find it ridiculous that some people believe if Nintendo's strategy isn't working, then other companies must be in danger.  Quite a biased conclusion.

No, Nintendo didn't know exactly what the outcome of the Wii would be, so don't suggest they did.  The world could have shunned it like they did with most motion controls in the past.  Nintendo took a gamble and it paid off.  I give them massive props for that.  However, like I said before, this same gamble isn't paying off for the Wii U.  And yes, it is the same gamble.  Underpowered HW, but the focus is supposed to be on the controller, not the power.

It's ridiculous to conclude that costs going up are because a console has more power.  It's as if some of you people think developers pay by the texture or polygon.  A lot of the cost are attributed to inflation.  The costs of everything else is going up.  Salaries, equipment, and leasing buildings for HQs.  And that has nothing to do with the power of a console.  If the consoles are easier to develop for than they were for this gen, which the PS4 will be compared to the PS3, then the prices aren't just going to skyrocket for no reason.  Again, as long as companies put out quality games and have good time/resource management, which was lacking in the companies that went out of busines this gen, then they'll be fine.  And the Wii was not created for the poor economy.  The Wii was in development well before 2006, which was still a year before the economy really went to shit.  Part of the Wii's success can probably be attributed to the weak economy, though.  Still, that didn't really stop the PS3/360 from selling well, also.

Nintendo fans are afraid because they can look at the sales.  The Wii U is selling like a dying console.  And its only been out for 2 months and is only $30-$50 more expensive then the PS3.  They know that Nintendo games can only push a console so far.  It needs 3rd party games, as well.  Basically, it comes down to them fearing a 2nd or 3rd place finish.



Heavenly_King said:
justinian said:
Developers want more power. More power means better looking games, more intelligent AI etc, etc and the potential for far better games overall. The consoles with the oomph are the ones the developers are likely to support with in turn push up the sales. This is evident from the way many of them dismissed the wii u.

The wii sold a lot of consoles without third party support but it is looking very likely that this underpower console thing that nintendo insist on doing isn't going to work this time around.

The truth is processing power rules with the developers and it is has always played a part for the consumer, seems this will be the case even more next gen.

BTW I do not believe developers when they say PS and xbox regular game prices will stay the same next gen anymore than I would a politician telling me that my taxes and the cost of living will stay the same next year. I simply do not believe it.


As time passes tech gets cheap.   The only reason why PS360 costs $60 is because publishers needed to make their Wii games appealing.    If a PS3 game costs $50 and a Wii game costs $50, according to you which one people would think that is outrageous to have that price?  So instead of making Wii games cheaper they made PS360 games more expensive.   Think about it, why the same version of a game that is also available for PC costs $50 and not $60??? 

When next gen enters overdrive, it will require less resources to make "previous gen" games, making them cheaper to make; and the "current gen" games will cost just about the same as it is right now.

Indeed. Inflation is our friend in this case.
Games within a generation don't get more expensive over time even though pretty much all other goods do.

Actually I don't see why publishers and the console manufacturers won't increase the price. $60 in 2005 is just as much as $70 in 2013:
http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
Sounds fair to me, since the average Joe earns more money in 2013 than in 2005 for the same job.

If they did that the funny thing would be that only WiiU games got more expensive while PS4/Xbox³ games basically stayed the same. (obviously last gen only PS3/360 games got more expensive).



I really question the cry about development cost going up all the time. Sure, sometimes they might, but also, new tech sometimes does more things for the designers, so you, in theory, could actually use less people.

Well, that is what Bungie said about developing Halo: Reach - "Building a motion capture studio in-house saved Bungie time as motion capture data could be applied to the game models the same day it was shot" http://halo.bungie.net/news/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=Spandex

And, look at the user generated mods to Skyrim. They are making it nearly photo realistic, but not changing the design at all - and only through volunteers. It's quite amazing.

They way things are going - DirectX gives you tools, then people are using Unreal Engine, CryEngine, Frostbyte, Havok, etc. on top of that. So actual game companies can rent/lease a design engine so they only make the game part and use the tools other companies have already made.

As the tech becomes better, stronger, and more accessible, it does open some additional doors for designers.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

Metallicube said:
ClassicGamingWizzz said:
Metallicube said:

We must have more power!! More more more! Even at the risk of destroying the industry! 

Kinda sounds like how the Roman Empire fell

lol

 

I think people wants the industry to get stuck in this gen forever, NO MORE POWER !!! NO 60 FPS WE WANT 30 OR BELOW !!! GOD SAVES US FROM IMPROVED SHADOWS, LIGHTINING  AND GRAPHICS!!!

same was said last gen , did industry ended? nop , scream all you want but the industry will go foward and will not be stuck in the stone age.

Ironically, the industry WILL end up in the stone age if it keeps going the rate its going. Look at all the bankrupt companies already, and this is with the CURRENT gen. Imagine what could transpire next gen, with even further skyrocketting costs. The Wii route was the correct direction to go from a business standpoint, but the industry shunned and mocked it, sticking with their old ways. I have a feeling that they will soon regret that.

That's looking at a small segment of the industry though. There are plenty of small indie developers, startups, and smaller Kickstarter funded devs that are actually doing quite well. How many of them will migrate and develop for consoles? There are Indie (low budget) games on PC that manage to push visuals beyong the current consoles. It's possible to do, as always though, the developers have to be intelligent about how they go about it.



IamAwsome said:

....but can the industry really survive it? 

- Yes

Everyone in the PS3/360 camp says the Wii U isn't poweful enough. How powerful do you expect the PS4/X3ox to be??? If Nintendo takes a loss on the so called "underpowered" Wii U, than what makes you think Sony and MS will be able to release consoles with MOAR power, and even remotely turn some sort of profit? 

- The Wii U is the same amount of power of PS360 if not a little bit better, why would we want a console that puts out the same looking games that we been playing for the last 6 years? We expect the PS4/720 to be more power then the PS360 atleast 3 - 4 times like it has been every gen. Nintendoes loss is because of the tablet controller, and I'm expecting a $399 - $499 price for both PS4 and X720, which is acceptable these days.

The base Wii U is $299, and they profit with 1-2 games sold, so that puts the production price at around $325 (and no the GamePad doesn't eat up most of the cost). If consoles are as powerful as you people want, we could be looking at $400-$500 launch prices if they don't sell at a loss. 

- Clearly the gamepad is costing a lot of money since the PS360 has similar specs and are profiting at $199 - $250.

Oh, and 4k will NOT happen next gen. just saying :).

- 8th gen? No very doubtful, I don't think anyone is expecting this?

Development costs are rising, and we lost a lot of devs this gen. What makes y'all think they'll survive with costs tripling? We'll just have more Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, and Madden, and less innovation. Lightbbox Interactive, Eat Sleep Play, and Superbot Entertainment were all founded in the middle of this gen. They all released games last year that didn't sell. After that they faced major layoffs, and make iOS games now. THQ went belly up, and poor Vigil got left in the cold. Now we have publishers like EA and Square Enix consistently posting losses. If big publishers are losing money now, how will they survive next gen? 

- That's the name of the game, happens every generation, the only thing about the 7th genration is the big recession hit hard on a lot of companies. Cost won't triple, they may double at the most. Also there is cheaper alternatives to making games like the mini games on Xbox live and PSN like Journey, Flower, Limbo etc. Smaller gaming companies can start there if they're successful then they can make bigger games.

The answer?: They WON'T

- You don't know that.

If development costs rise more next gen like Epic says, bigger publishers will have to merge, and smaller publishers will either turn to iOS development, or shut down altogether, like THQ and Atari. Everyone wants an insanely powerful PS4, but for the good of the industry, it's not necessary. 

- Companies are preparing for this, do you really think they don't know that things get bigger and better every gen? A lot of companies now are complaining how the 7th gen is going on so long and they want the 8th gen to start, if they were all so scared of the new generation why would they want it to come so bad?