Forums - Gaming Discussion - Wii U graphics power finally revealed - "we can now finally rule out any next-gen pretensions for the Wii U"

@zero129

That's a good question... I think you have two forms to get third-party support:

- Money (lol)
- A hardware easy to developer (SDK, DevTools, more PC like)

The first case Microsoft have the lead because well Microsoft have the money... Sony not. In the second case the last gen showed the PS3 have a way harder hardware to developer than 360... a machine with better SDK, DevTools and more PC like.

But that seems odd this new gen... Sony is getting a PS4 so PC like and Microsoft putting special units ("special sauce")... if the SDK and DevTools of the 720 are too good that to use the "special sauce" doens't need a hard work then I think Microsoft can have the thrid-party support... but if the SDK and DevTools of 720 are harder like the SDK and DevTools for PS3 (to use the Cell) then I guess the third-party will focus more on PS4.

Sony seem to create a console more PC like possible... so any PC dev will have no trouble to developer to PS4... and the DevTools and SKD are way more friendly and easy to work than the PS3 era.

Sony doesn't want to make the same Cell mistake.

Well in the end Microsoft have the money and that can do miracles lol.



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who cares about all this technical aspects? Nintendo is all about FUN.



Master Mii Artisan 

zero129 said:
Wasnt the same thing said about the X360 and the Ps3?. The is no way 360 would match the power of the PS3 yet pretty much every multiplat game looks better on the x360 then it does on the PS3?.

Yes, except on paper and in real world the GPU in the Xbox 360 is more powerful. The Cell is just a 1-core CPU with 6 SPE supporting engines. The Xbox 360 has a 3-core 6-threaded CPU, where each of the 3 cores is as powerful as the single main core in the Cell. That means without insane optimizations on the Cell's SPE/SPU engines (using them to aid in graphical calculations for the slower RSX GPU), PS3 CPU and GPU were collectively less powerful. Not to mention the GPU was gimped by just 256MB of VRAM vs. 512MB for Xbox 360. Therefore, the claims that PS3 was the more powerful console were simply wishful thinking in practical terms where developers faced time and budget contraints. It's like having a 750 hp muscle car and non-sticky tires, where you can't put the power to the ground. For the few developers like Naughty Dog that spent millions of dollars learning the Cell and having more flexible launch schedules, they could extract the full power of the Cell (as they will with the Last of Us). However, these cases are far and few between for the PS3.

This time things we aren't comparing 2 different CPUs with 2 different GPU architectures. The CPUs are rumored to be identical and the GPUs come from the same family. The comparison of PS3 vs. 360 doesn't really apply here. It's akin to comparing 2 different PCs with identical CPUs but one has a more powerful GPU. Of course all these rumors could be entirely false.

zero129 said:
The reason i asked Ninja this question is cos he told me once he believed the 360 was more powerful cos it had better looking multiplat games and he said the console with the best looking multiplats is the most powerful. Im not saying i think that as i know the Ps3 is more powerful then the 360, but im asking "Him" not you what will he think if the same thing happens again nextgen.

The 360 vs. PS3 case is unique because the SPE engines in the Cell can be used for vectorized code to perform graphical effects. But if you do not utilize them, the Xbox 360 is the more powerful console, which is why in practice most multi-platform titles do look better on the 360.

Even if you compare exclusives, for instance, Forza 4 has better graphics than GT5, Halo 4 > Uncharted 3 on a technical level. In very rare cases, the PS3 can outperform Xbox 360 if all 6 SPEs are active. For example the dynamic lighting of the flashlight in the Last of Us. So in rare cases the combined power of the PS3 was probably slightly higher but in practice it was lower for most developers.

I do not agree that the console with the best looking 3rd party games is automatically the most powerful but in the context of rumored specs of PS4 vs. 720, it would be true. As you said the rumored specs could be false, which is why I should emphasize my point "assuming those specs are accurate." 



Poor Wii-U, more of a reason for people to bash it I guess. I'm still gonna buy one for Nintendo games.
It's still a bit of a let down that it couldn't be just a little bit stronger..



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I make bad threads.  

SSB really went downhill after Melee....

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zero129 said:
ninjablade said:
Soundwave said:
Baron said:
dahuman said:
DF jumped the gun too fast to get hits on their site, at the moment of their writing and even right now, nothing is conclusive yet. They are good at analyzing "graphics," but they are no experts when it comes to analyzing hardware. I'll stick to my usual saying though, if you want some real fucking graphics, go PC or STFU about it. cause all 8th gen consoles are already last gen or worse on the graphics level. They also don't understand why GCN doesn't mean as much for consoles, it's meant for PCs to start with.


This.

If the rumors about Durango and PS4 are true than I don't expect a 'quantum leap' compared to their predecessors. Mobile processors and graphics chipsets... So much for PC gaming in a box.


The PS4 sounds quite beastly actually. 1.8 TFLOP GPU console plus an 8-core CPU with extremely fast GDDR5 RAM (4GB of it).

That's maybe not as big of a leap from PS2 to PS3, but it's still a monsterous jump.

yup i will switching to ps4 nextgen for that reason, hope they improve the controller and i will very happy.

Question. What if xbox 8 even if it doesnt have on paper as much power but has better looking 3rd party games will you still go for the PS4?.

Also do you own a PC?

i would have to think about, but if psn is still free, probably ps4, i hope thats not the case and i don't  even have a pc.



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BlueFalcon said:

Even if you compare exclusives, for instance, Forza 4 has better graphics than GT5, Halo 4 > Uncharted 3 on a technical level.

That's false but I will not enter in a off-topic discussion



ethomaz said:

BlueFalcon said:

Assuming both the Xbox 720 and PS4 share the same CPU, and PS4 maintains at least a 50% lead with the AMD GPU, the above statement is a mathematical impossibility unless MS pays $ to 3rd parties to purposely subotage 3rd party ports to PS4. Since the GPUs are likely coming from the same AMD family (i.e., HD7000 series), it's impossible to make up for the graphical performance gap. Some possible scenarios how Xbox 720's game may look better is if the CPU is in the Xbox 720 is much better and/or if the OS on the PS4 is horribly inefficient negating all of the processing power advantage of PS4's GPU or if the developers can't figure out how to recreate "DX11" effects in PS4's OS environment.

Considering Xbox Live fees vs. free PSN (or PSN+ offering way more features like free games over Xbox Live), and if PS4 has superior GPU, MS is going to have to do something spectacular or market the **** out of their console to make it worth buying over PS4 if their prices are similar. Without PS4's 1 year delay and $600 price tag, MS's key advantage it had with 360 over PS3 are completely gone.

Seems like the Nextbox have "special sauce" units to help and free up the GPU... so less work to GPU... in the end the performance is near the PS4.

It's like that...

PS4 power: 5 task per cycle
260 power:  3 task per cycle

You have to run 5 tasks in both GPU but the Nextbox can do 2 tasks in the "special sauce" units... so at the end both give you the same performance. Of course that a dummy example lol... and these tasks are not for graphics at all (it is but not shaders specifics)...

Another point is that PS4 will reserve only 896 shaders units (1.4TFLOPS) for graphics... the others 256 shaders units (400GFLOPS) will be free to developer use for anything (graphics, GPGPU, etc).

At the end what will show how good the console perform is the optimizations and full use of the hardware.

I don't how it's possibe, the memory is a huge advantage for ps4 and you have 6 more cu;s i just don't see how ps4 won't have a nice advanateg but its too early to make the call,  i really don't believe in  special suace with out an explanation, most of the time its just wishful thinking.



BlueFalcon said:
zero129 said:
Wasnt the same thing said about the X360 and the Ps3?. The is no way 360 would match the power of the PS3 yet pretty much every multiplat game looks better on the x360 then it does on the PS3?.

Yes, except on paper and in real world the GPU in the Xbox 360 is more powerful. The Cell is just a 1-core CPU with 6 SPE supporting engines. The Xbox 360 has a 3-core 6-threaded CPU, where each of the 3 cores is as powerful as the single main core in the Cell. That means without insane optimizations on the Cell's SPE/SPU engines (using them to aid in graphical calculations for the slower RSX GPU), PS3 CPU and GPU were collectively less powerful. Not to mention the GPU was gimped by just 256MB of VRAM vs. 512MB for Xbox 360. Therefore, the claims that PS3 was the more powerful console were simply wishful thinking in practical terms where developers faced time and budget contraints. It's like having a 750 hp muscle car and non-sticky tires, where you can't put the power to the ground. For the few developers like Naughty Dog that spent millions of dollars learning the Cell and having more flexible launch schedules, they could extract the full power of the Cell (as they will with the Last of Us). However, these cases are far and few between for the PS3.

This time things we aren't comparing 2 different CPUs with 2 different GPU architectures. The CPUs are rumored to be identical and the GPUs come from the same family. The comparison of PS3 vs. 360 doesn't really apply here. It's akin to comparing 2 different PCs with identical CPUs but one has a more powerful GPU. Of course all these rumors could be entirely false.

zero129 said:
The reason i asked Ninja this question is cos he told me once he believed the 360 was more powerful cos it had better looking multiplat games and he said the console with the best looking multiplats is the most powerful. Im not saying i think that as i know the Ps3 is more powerful then the 360, but im asking "Him" not you what will he think if the same thing happens again nextgen.

The 360 vs. PS3 case is unique because the SPE engines in the Cell can be used for vectorized code to perform graphical effects. But if you do not utilize them, the Xbox 360 is the more powerful console, which is why in practice most multi-platform titles do look better on the 360.

Even if you compare exclusives, for instance, Forza 4 has better graphics than GT5, Halo 4 > Uncharted 3 on a technical level. In very rare cases, the PS3 can outperform Xbox 360 if all 6 SPEs are active. For example the dynamic lighting of the flashlight in the Last of Us. So in rare cases the combined power of the PS3 was probably slightly higher but in practice it was lower for most developers.

I do not agree that the console with the best looking 3rd party games is automatically the most powerful but in the context of rumored specs of PS4 vs. 720, it would be true. As you said the rumored specs could be false, which is why I should emphasize my point "assuming those specs are accurate." 

Now this was a good reply much better then your other one.

I guess we will just have to wait and see how powerful both consoles are. But imo the difference is going to be so small it wont even matter.

Plus as a PC gamer it 100% doesnt matter to me as in a sense i have always ben a gen ahard of consoles, so i will buy all 3 nextgen consoles once the is exclusive games on them i want, Yes i do class the WiiU as nextgen. Plus i like good Graphics on consoles but i also like good gameplay even more and well i have had no problem with Ps3 or x360 gfx so i dont see why id start having a problem now



ninjablade said:
zero129 said:
ninjablade said:
Soundwave said:
Baron said:
dahuman said:
DF jumped the gun too fast to get hits on their site, at the moment of their writing and even right now, nothing is conclusive yet. They are good at analyzing "graphics," but they are no experts when it comes to analyzing hardware. I'll stick to my usual saying though, if you want some real fucking graphics, go PC or STFU about it. cause all 8th gen consoles are already last gen or worse on the graphics level. They also don't understand why GCN doesn't mean as much for consoles, it's meant for PCs to start with.


This.

If the rumors about Durango and PS4 are true than I don't expect a 'quantum leap' compared to their predecessors. Mobile processors and graphics chipsets... So much for PC gaming in a box.


The PS4 sounds quite beastly actually. 1.8 TFLOP GPU console plus an 8-core CPU with extremely fast GDDR5 RAM (4GB of it).

That's maybe not as big of a leap from PS2 to PS3, but it's still a monsterous jump.

yup i will switching to ps4 nextgen for that reason, hope they improve the controller and i will very happy.

Question. What if xbox 8 even if it doesnt have on paper as much power but has better looking 3rd party games will you still go for the PS4?.

Also do you own a PC?

i would have to think about, but if psn is still free, probably ps4, i hope thats not the case and i don't  even have a pc.

Well you should get one and then add me on steam lulz xD



zero129 said:
ninjablade said:
zero129 said:
ninjablade said:
Soundwave said:
Baron said:
dahuman said:
DF jumped the gun too fast to get hits on their site, at the moment of their writing and even right now, nothing is conclusive yet. They are good at analyzing "graphics," but they are no experts when it comes to analyzing hardware. I'll stick to my usual saying though, if you want some real fucking graphics, go PC or STFU about it. cause all 8th gen consoles are already last gen or worse on the graphics level. They also don't understand why GCN doesn't mean as much for consoles, it's meant for PCs to start with.


This.

If the rumors about Durango and PS4 are true than I don't expect a 'quantum leap' compared to their predecessors. Mobile processors and graphics chipsets... So much for PC gaming in a box.


The PS4 sounds quite beastly actually. 1.8 TFLOP GPU console plus an 8-core CPU with extremely fast GDDR5 RAM (4GB of it).

That's maybe not as big of a leap from PS2 to PS3, but it's still a monsterous jump.

yup i will switching to ps4 nextgen for that reason, hope they improve the controller and i will very happy.

Question. What if xbox 8 even if it doesnt have on paper as much power but has better looking 3rd party games will you still go for the PS4?.

Also do you own a PC?

i would have to think about, but if psn is still free, probably ps4, i hope thats not the case and i don't  even have a pc.

Well you should get one and then add me on steam lulz xD

if i do i will add you for sure.