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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Next Generation graphics!

jcp234 said:
Rachid said:
of course i want the old nintendo with higher quality standards and graphics.

Well, the casual market is much larger than the hardcore market, right?

 

And WiiPlay also comes with an extra Wiimote. LOL Not to knock the game, but that's a pretty good incentive for a lot of individuals to pick it up.

And I am sure there is a way for casual games and hardcore games to mutually exist. The two do not have to be mutually exclusive of one another.

There will always be developers who will want to accommodate the hardcore gamer. Even if a developer does decide to produce casual games here and there...The whole industry will not 100% agree to accommodate only the casual gamer...

 

And the casual market represents opportunities for companies to increase their resources (low cost simple games that sell well generate profits)...which can then be funneled toward more risky harcore projects.

Haven't some developers already started implementing said strategy?


 Actually yes they have, I can't give you a link but it tore up the N-Sider forums before they closed. A UbiSoft boss said that UbiSoft was using the Nintendo Wii's success to fund bigger projects on the X-Box 360 and PlayStation3. Nintendo fans were furious and I believe a clarification statement was made shortly after.

 Fact is that is exactly what the publishers are doing. The problem is they aren't funneling that money back into new Wii games. They are funneling that money into the new Turok or CallOfDuty or GhostRecon. Either way you slice it the casual market seems to be an excuse for developers to make crap and pass it off as quality titles



-JC7

"In God We Trust - In Games We Play " - Joel Reimer

 

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Joelcool7 said:
leonoel said:
The reason Wii Play outsells every other game is because of the free controller take that out, and you will see the sales are not that high.

 I hope your right, I know initially that gave it edge but many casual games are doing insainly well. Games like Cooking Mama and the Petz series of titles not to mention all the dang brain games.

Nintendo led the way into creating cheaply looking games. I mean no graphics aren't everything I prefer most of Nintendo's last gen GameCube games to many of todays PS3 titles, but these new casual games aren't even setting the bar at GameCube.

 When games involve a Pencil writing words, or the letter A or a crossword puzzel or maybe a cartoonish pizza or an even N64 rendered pencil. 

 I mean come on a few of the casual games look SNES or worse Flash4 quality. When a developer can develope a game at say 200,000$ and sell 500,000 copies over their usual 6-8 million development budget with sales of 500,000 or less copies. You do the math?

The future Nintendo has set us on will see the next big game being "Playing games:For Dummies". Couldn't Nintendo have at least gone with their PennantChase:BaseBall added a GameCube looking bowling game some decent looking boxing title and thrown them together to form WiiSports?

Just because its casual doesn't mean it should look like shit! 


I don't think casual gamers are expecting extra celestial advanced realistic graphics. Casual gamers tend to not take it as seriously as the hardcore.

I'm assuming you are disappointed with the graphic quality because you're a hardcore. Why waste resources and costs if the casual gamer is content?

If casual gamers are content and are willing to pay for these games (which you believe have crappy graphics) it would not be a wise business decision to spend more money to improve graphics....if the market was really bothered by these poor graphics...it would be reflected in poor sales. 



I'm not a fanboy, I just try to tip the balance in favor of logic and common sense.

Louie said:
 

Your not long into this market, right?

 

It always happens with the market leader. The best selling system gets a ton of crappy games. It happened to the SNES, the PSX, the PS2, Gameboy, Gameboy Advance, DS and now Wii.

That´s the way things go in this industry and I really hope you don´t want Nintendos censorship back they used in the 80´s.

About the other things you mentioned: Leonel already said why Wii Player sells so well and Ubisoft is still producing as much "AAA" games as always, they have their own casual game developement studio now, that´s all.


 Of course I know the most popular system always gets more games, do I want the censorship of Nintendo in the early 90's. No I don't but something similiar to their standards during the Nintendo64 midlife would be nice.

Nintendo's policies in the early 90's ensured higher quality software. By only allowing publishers to release 3-titles a year or so. These policies were to give Nintendo the home field advantage and allow them to easily sell their software while remaining slightly competitive with the competition 3rd party wise.

However Nintendo should restart censorship quality wise. Test each game before finalizing its liscense demand a demo of the game before liscensing it. However many studios with only concepts can get liscensed and big publishers can get away with releasing almost anything they want.

Nintendo bringing back some sort of quality control would be nice! 



-JC7

"In God We Trust - In Games We Play " - Joel Reimer

 

Joelcool7 said:

1. I never said Nintendo abandoned the hardcore. I said they openned the floodgates to a ton of crappy games. Just because a game gets labeled casual doesn't mean you should be able to get away with passing off N64 graphics.


2. When a game like WiiPlay can manage to outsell far superior AAA+ titles you know we are headed in the wrong direction. Now I like WiiPlay like many of you do its fun for a casual 10-minutes of gameplay every two to three weeks.


1. Lots of bad games don't make a bad library. The lack of good games makes a bad library. The Wii has good games, and it's getting more all the time, so we have nothing to complain about.  

The choice crappy publishers have to make about what console to put their crappy games on is probably easier this gen due to the HD consoles having very high development costs that pretty much rule them out as an option for smaller companies, but again, nobody's forcing you to play those games. 

2. Wii Play costs next to nothing with the controller, and it's a pretty good introduction to the wiimote for people who're new to gaming. I haven't played my copy of the game for almost a year now, but it's still not the least bang I've got for my buck.

The only casual games that're doing extremely well on the Wii are Mario Party 8 and Mario&Sonic, which are both fun and well designed mini-game collections. Have you tried them? Aside from that there are Warioware, which is a decent franchise with a reputation, and the first Brain Something game on the Wii. That's hardly an overwhelming flood of casual games on the best seller list, especially considering the top 2 non-bundled games on the Wii continue to be single player games with lots of content and complex game mechanics.



Parokki said:

Joelcool7 said:

1. I never said Nintendo abandoned the hardcore. I said they openned the floodgates to a ton of crappy games. Just because a game gets labeled casual doesn't mean you should be able to get away with passing off N64 graphics.


2. When a game like WiiPlay can manage to outsell far superior AAA+ titles you know we are headed in the wrong direction. Now I like WiiPlay like many of you do its fun for a casual 10-minutes of gameplay every two to three weeks.


1. Lots of bad games don't make a bad library. The lack of good games makes a bad library. The Wii has good games, and it's getting more all the time, so we have nothing to complain about.

The choice crappy publishers have to make about what console to put their crappy games on is probably easier this gen due to the HD consoles having very high development costs that pretty much rule them out as an option for smaller companies, but again, nobody's forcing you to play those games.

2. Wii Play costs next to nothing with the controller, and it's a pretty good introduction to the wiimote for people who're new to gaming. I haven't played my copy of the game for almost a year now, but it's still not the least bang I've got for my buck.

The only casual games that're doing extremely well on the Wii are Mario Party 8 and Mario&Sonic, which are both fun and well designed mini-game collections. Have you tried them? Aside from that there are Warioware, which is a decent franchise with a reputation, and the first Brain Something game on the Wii. That's hardly an overwhelming flood of casual games on the best seller list, especially considering the top 2 non-bundled games on the Wii continue to be single player games with lots of content and complex game mechanics.


 I own MarioParty8 and have rented WarioWare and I own WiiPlay. I have rented BrainAge and am a fan to a degree of games like TraumaCenter and Cooking Mama. However they are cheaply developed and I prefer my Pikmin and Animal Crossing over todays innovative games TraumaCenter or BrainAge or Dogz or Cranium.

You can have innovation without throwing visuals to the dogs. You only mention Nintendo's first party casual titles. Also UbiSoft is by no means a crappy publisher yet wave after wave of cheaply made casual games appear on its launch list. EAGames is following suit but Spore and such will hopefully keep them from the same fait.

Fact is I'm not afraid of Nintendo themselves declining. I'm afraid I bought a console that is pretty much only good for playing Nintendo's own games! 



-JC7

"In God We Trust - In Games We Play " - Joel Reimer

 

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Joelcool7 said:
Louie said:
 



Of course I know the most popular system always gets more games, do I want the censorship of Nintendo in the early 90's. No I don't but something similiar to their standards during the Nintendo64 midlife would be nice.

The problem here is that Nintendo has to make games for the DS and Wii and game developement is much more expensive now than it was during the N64 era. They can´t develope as many high quality games anymore because they need more time to develope them now. That´s why high quality games on Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 need years to be releases. Nintendo puts lot of polish in its games.

 

Nintendo's policies in the early 90's ensured higher quality software. By only allowing publishers to release 3-titles a year or so. These policies were to give Nintendo the home field advantage and allow them to easily sell their software while remaining slightly competitive with the competition 3rd party wise.

...which was completely against the law in about 95% of all countries in the world and one of the biggest mistakes they ever made because 3rd parties left them as soon as possible during the PSX era.

However Nintendo should restart censorship quality wise. Test each game before finalizing its liscense demand a demo of the game before liscensing it. However many studios with only concepts can get liscensed and big publishers can get away with releasing almost anything they want.

Nintendo bringing back some sort of quality control would be nice!

I´m not sure but I THINK I had some kind of heart attack when I read the last sentence, which would at least explain why I´m lying on the floor now... Rol, stop creating accounts only to give us some sarcastic threads. 


 



Louie said:
 

However Nintendo should restart censorship quality wise. Test each game before finalizing its liscense demand a demo of the game before liscensing it. However many studios with only concepts can get liscensed and big publishers can get away with releasing almost anything they want.

Nintendo bringing back some sort of quality control would be nice!

I´m not sure but I THINK I had some kind of heart attack when I read the last sentence, which would at least explain why I´m lying on the floor now... Rol, stop creating accounts only to give us some sarcastic threads.


... you don't think it's seriously him? Even Austrians aren't that sneaky!

I'm not touching this thread anymore. The very thought of falling for a RolRoll is too horrifying. ;___;



"Nintendo is making as many top notch hardcore games as they ever have. Third parties are giving lots and lots of support to the DS, and flocking to the Wii. The fact that there are lots of casual games doesn't diminish the fact that there are lots of non-casual games either."

 I started to worry about the "ömg casuals are killing gaming". But I dont because its rubbish, its just attracting a much bigger audience. Not all casuals will but some will become "hardcore" gamers. Which will mean more "hardcore"games.



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DMeisterJ said:
I stopped reading when you said that Nintendo games were of a higher caliber than Sony or Microsoft. Surely you aren't talking about the last generation of hardware, or the one before that. You have to make that statement based off of one year on the market of the PS3. And if you believe that XBOX 360s software catalog is not as strong as the Wii's you must be on somethin.

Othher than that, good read.

Thats why he said GAMES not HARDWARE.

 



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misteromar mk4 said:

"Nintendo is making as many top notch hardcore games as they ever have. Third parties are giving lots and lots of support to the DS, and flocking to the Wii. The fact that there are lots of casual games doesn't diminish the fact that there are lots of non-casual games either."

 I started to worry about the "ömg casuals are killing gaming". But I dont because its rubbish, its just attracting a much bigger audience. Not all casuals will but some will become "hardcore" gamers. Which will mean more "hardcore"games.


 Well said



I'm not a fanboy, I just try to tip the balance in favor of logic and common sense.