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Forums - General Discussion - If you are against gay marriage, explain why without mentioning religion

 

Are you for or against gay marriage?

For 290 49.49%
 
Against 171 29.18%
 
don't know 16 2.73%
 
whatever who cares? 108 18.43%
 
Total:585
Nightwish224 on 19 January 2013

I personally do not care.

I'm going to quote Whoopi Goldberg on this:

"If you don't like gay marriage, don't marry a gay person."

Do whatever you want. Keep the government out.

Let individual people define marriage between two consenting adults, not government.



Everyone needs to play Lost Odyssey! Any opposition to this and I will have to just say, "If it's a fight you want, you got it!"

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Player1x3 on 19 January 2013
fordy said:
Player1x3 said:
timmah said:
I don't understand why some people automatically assume that if you disagree with somebody's actions or lifestyle, you're automatically a bigot, this makes no sense. I personally think it's wrong to sleep around, but I have close friends who do and I'm not bigoted towards them, it's their choice and not my place to judge them. If they came to me asking for advice, I'd give it to them straight, but that doesn't mean I hate them, judge them, dislike them, am bigoted towards them, or anything else like that. It's very possible to disagree with somebody's personal choices without being a 'bigot', and unfortunately that term gets thrown around way too often to degrade other people's opinions. I even worked with (and was good friends with) an openly gay man for a few years. I never saw it as my duty to judge him or tell him my opinion about his actions, because they are HIS actions and aren't hurting anybody else, so why should I care what he does at home? We even had a couple good discussions about gay marriage and he agreed with me about civil unions.

That's why, while a don't personally believe that homosexual acts are 'ok', the same way I don't think sleeping around is 'ok', or that watching porn is 'ok' (which DOES NOT make me bigoted against people who do those things), I don't think it's right to deny people rights based on that, which is why I believe we should have civil unions with same or similar legal benefits to marriage. Also, if a same-sex couple wants a ceremony, there are plenty of ministers out there who will do that.


You have just earned a shit ton of respect from me :D If only bigots like fordy could have a perspective on society and people like you do :)


Bigotry is the state of mind of a bigot, defined by Merriam-Webster as "a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially: one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance"

Show me where I have highlighted a particular group in this discussion, letalone regard them, unless of course you're accusing me of being prejudiced towards gays by being too sympathetic towards them...

 

It's a pretty simple concept called logic. You should try it, sometime...

You are a bigot to everyone that has a different opinion than you, which is the worst kind of bigot IMO. You constantly kept attacking and provoking killerxz and call him names because you disagree with him. Its pretty obvious that you're insanely intolerant towards most people who have a different view on the world than you. You're really not so much different than the christians and other groups you constantly like to flame and attack here, despite how extremly high you think of yourself. 

It's a pretty simple concept called self awarness. You should try it, sometime...



Tom3k on 19 January 2013
Michael-5 said:
Tom3k said:
Michael-5 said:
Tom3k said:
 

Homsexuality is not a "defect" as you so bluntly put it. There isn't a gay gene, if it were it would have been probably discovered by now. The most recent epigenetic studies link homosexuality with epi-marks, and "different" expression of genes.

Stupidity is a disorder as well. Just to point the obvioius...

From GENETIC point of view as you so boldly put it there Homosexuality doesn't prevent reproduction! 

I know there isn't a gay gene, I said that above. If there were a gene for homosexuality, it wouldn't be a defect, it would be a gene.

Stupidity is only a disorder if you are born with some retarding mutation. You can become dumb by drinking paint, you can't become homosexual, or bipolar no matter how hard you try. There is an important distinction.

Homosexuality doesn't prevent reproduction? You need two different genders to reproduce, if people are not interested oposite genders, then there is no reproduction


Please don't bring anthropology into discussion of genomics. Because you said "However from a genetics point of view, homosexuality is disfunctional. There is no arguement here, people are designed to reproduce sexually, if we were designed to be homosexuals, we would all have some sort of hermaphedite system in us.".

As I stated above homosexuality doesn't pervent reporuction. Am I infertile because I'm gay? Sudenly I started shooting blanks? Stop talking rubbish. As a gay person myself that has MANY gay freinds, I can asure you that you would be surprised by sheer number of them that actually reproduced (more than once if I may add). 

 

For those that claim that homosexuality is a "condition", "disorder", "unnatural"... or whatnot. Get off your high horse! As a "phenomenon" that is observed in nature from a simple guppy fish to mammals it's obviously very natural and common thing... And out of all the animals that inhabit this planet the only animal that has "issues" with homosexuality or homsexuals is the one that claims to be "smartest" of them all. But in end it's just one poisoned by "religious donctrine's" and their narrow minded views of nature and humanity.

It's not Anthropology, it's Biology. Homosexuality isn't genetic, it's a random mutation. Random mutations, like schizophrenea or homosexuality are not normal mutations, do not contribute to the fitness of a species, and overall are not what the species was designed for.

Homosexuality does prevent reproduction. If you're fertile, but do not have the means to procreate, then you can't procreate can you? This is no different from a man who has no penis (say because of an accident). Just because you got sperm in the sack doesn't mean you can procreate. Even if the guy forced himself to procreate, there is still a mental barrier which reduces reproductive success.

How is homosexuality not a disorder? Is schizophrenea not a disorder? They are both random mutations which result in abnormal behaviours in the brain.

Out of all the animals in the world, only one species has an issue with bi polar, rape, schizophrenea, etc. Just because it happens naturally, doesn't mean it's normal. Rape is natural, schizophrenea is natural, and has a biological source like homosexuality. Are you going to argue those things are normal? We should accept rape and crazy's, and not treat them?

I don't see a point in arguing with you, because you simply don't understand the concepts that you use in first place...

In your 1st line you state "Homosexuality isn't genetic, it's a random mutation". Could you please make up your mind? The definition of "mutation" is infreaquent, unrepaired mistakes that occur in the DNA replication process and lead to changes in nucleotide sequences of DNA thus changing the instructions for some cellular components (That's from Lehninger Principles of Biochemistry, 4th edition btw). Just so you know genes are nucleotide sequences within DNA. And Genetics is the study of those genes. So saying that something isn't genetic, but it occurs because of changes in it's gene(s), while previously stating that there ins't such thing as gay gene... Gosh... You are a confused one...



Player1x3 on 19 January 2013
Majora said:
mai said:

^Good thing you do. It is "strange" indeed, human beings are tend to protect their lifestyle, at least those who value stability, even though unconsciously sometimes.

Child sexuality is smth he/she learns about as early as 10-12 y.o., of course, kids are aware of gender specific differences way before that and could even form sort of couples with each other mimicking adult's behaviour, but never truly understand it until early teen age. At this point pro-gay lobbists usually start running in circles screaming "it's not a choice" :D Of course, it's not, but it is surely not smth you inherit. Relationships between parents, social groups he/she interacts with, culture in general are all influential in one way or another on kid's psychology before he/she formed as a personality, which includes his/her sexuality. Though I'm not with alarmists in anti gay marriage camp, that homosexuals are great threat, but it's smth worth keeping in mind that homosexuals are useless for society in this specific regard -- this should be foundtation of our attitude to them on what's tolerable and what's not.


Speechless. You sad, bigoted little man.

Hahaha, a classic response. Just because you dont have a respectful argument to counter his point doesnt mean you have to insult and attack him. But then again, I guess you wouldnt be a pro gay activist if you didnt do that...



Jay520 on 19 January 2013
Michael-5 said:

1. Could you refresh what you said about your opinions? I've been discussing this matter with half a dozen people.

2. I am against homosexuality. According to scientist and psychiatrists, most beleive it's a biological defection. At some people point before people are born, maybe even before they are even complete zygotes, some mutation occurs and makes them homosexual. This is why homosexuality affects random individuals, no differently from schizophenea.

I think looking for a cure for any biological disorder is important. Homosexuallity isn't life devastating like bi polar is, nor is it life threatening like cancer, but it's something and if people want to put money into finding a cure I'm all for it.

3. You are correct, there is still a debate among nature vs. nurture. Either way there is still a cure. With a biological defect, it would be fixable by drugs and therapy. With a Psychological defect, it would also be fixable by drugs and therapy. The difference is the amount of drugs (obviously a lot more for a biological source) and the amount of therapy (more for psychological sources). Either way, why shouldn't we look for a cure for a disorder, just because it's less harmful then others?

Homo's have a right to be Hetero if it was possible, and I'm sure many would want to be.

1. It disturbs me to know that either you have a really short memory or you just aren'y paying attention. I said my opinion onn a cure here. 

2. I don't care what terminology you use to call homosexuality. You can call it a defect, disorder, etc. Quite frankly, I don't care. The point is, you shouldn't be against Homosexuality as a whole. Because plenty of homosexuals love being homosexuals. Are you against homosexuality when homosexuals are fine with their sexual orientation? Of course not. You are only against homosexuality in specific cases. So stop saying you're just against homosexuality as if it's always a negative thing, because it's not.

3. I don't think so. If it's a psychological cause, then there may not be a 'cure' possible. Like for some strange reason, some men love fat chicks. Obviously this would be a psychological cause and not a biological one. Do you think there could ever possibly be a 'cure' for men like that? Probably not. 

I'm all for the research of drugs/therapy that allows people to choose their sexual orientation at will. I have no problem with it. But that doesn't mean I'm against homosexuality as a whole. 



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Majora on 19 January 2013
Player1x3 said:
Majora said:
mai said:

^Good thing you do. It is "strange" indeed, human beings are tend to protect their lifestyle, at least those who value stability, even though unconsciously sometimes.

Child sexuality is smth he/she learns about as early as 10-12 y.o., of course, kids are aware of gender specific differences way before that and could even form sort of couples with each other mimicking adult's behaviour, but never truly understand it until early teen age. At this point pro-gay lobbists usually start running in circles screaming "it's not a choice" :D Of course, it's not, but it is surely not smth you inherit. Relationships between parents, social groups he/she interacts with, culture in general are all influential in one way or another on kid's psychology before he/she formed as a personality, which includes his/her sexuality. Though I'm not with alarmists in anti gay marriage camp, that homosexuals are great threat, but it's smth worth keeping in mind that homosexuals are useless for society in this specific regard -- this should be foundtation of our attitude to them on what's tolerable and what's not.


Speechless. You sad, bigoted little man.

Hahaha, a classic response. Just because you dont have a respectful argument to counter his point doesnt mean you have to insult and attack him. But then again, I guess you wouldnt be a pro gay activist if you didnt do that...


I'll reply to YOU, later



Player1x3 on 19 January 2013
Majora said:
Player1x3 said:
Majora said:
mai said:

^Good thing you do. It is "strange" indeed, human beings are tend to protect their lifestyle, at least those who value stability, even though unconsciously sometimes.

Child sexuality is smth he/she learns about as early as 10-12 y.o., of course, kids are aware of gender specific differences way before that and could even form sort of couples with each other mimicking adult's behaviour, but never truly understand it until early teen age. At this point pro-gay lobbists usually start running in circles screaming "it's not a choice" :D Of course, it's not, but it is surely not smth you inherit. Relationships between parents, social groups he/she interacts with, culture in general are all influential in one way or another on kid's psychology before he/she formed as a personality, which includes his/her sexuality. Though I'm not with alarmists in anti gay marriage camp, that homosexuals are great threat, but it's smth worth keeping in mind that homosexuals are useless for society in this specific regard -- this should be foundtation of our attitude to them on what's tolerable and what's not.


Speechless. You sad, bigoted little man.

Hahaha, a classic response. Just because you dont have a respectful argument to counter his point doesnt mean you have to insult and attack him. But then again, I guess you wouldnt be a pro gay activist if you didnt do that...


I'll reply to YOU, later


Im hoping you'll have a little more substance and taste in your accusations and attacks that are about get posted..



menx64 on 19 January 2013

I said, evolution and human reproduction... The only two real reasons, yet nobody replied to it. I am sure if I would have said religion I would have gotten tens of answers.



Menx64

3DS code: 1289-8222-7215

NNid: Menx064

Jay520 on 19 January 2013
menx64 said:

I said, evolution and human reproduction... The only two real reasons, yet nobody replied to it. I am sure if I would have said religion I would have gotten tens of answers.


What does gay marriage have to do with human reproduction and evolution?



Burning Typhoon on 19 January 2013

I don't see why we can't just get a new term.

That way, they can still get "married," and, when they use the term, there's no confusion at all about the person they're married to. It would be of the same gender.

...You don't call gay men lesbians, but, gay women get called gay or lesbian so why not? Less confusion, they're not technically married, but, still "are." Everyone's happy...