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Forums - General - If you are against gay marriage, explain why without mentioning religion

 

Are you for or against gay marriage?

For 290 49.49%
 
Against 171 29.18%
 
don't know 16 2.73%
 
whatever who cares? 108 18.43%
 
Total:585
NintendoPie on 09 January 2013

I could care less if Gay People want to be married. It's their life, not mine.



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NobleTeam360 on 09 January 2013
Lafiel said:
Player1x3 said:
Andrespetmonkey said:

Do you know how many ancient societies allowed pedophilia by modern standards? A lot more than those that didn't, not that that's to say it makes it morally right, but to say they weren't exactly low on the morality spectrum.


Well then, we should be glad Christianity ended stuff like that in the Western World :)

bullshit?

mariage with 12-14 years (and consummation) was pretty much standard for centuries throughout europe even with christianity in place - from our point of view that is pedophilia

Yeah that's because life expectancy was a lot lower than what it is Today. 



kitler53 on 09 January 2013
kowenicki said:

In the UK we have civil partnerships for same sex couples.

Why bring religion into it?

Civil partnerships are enough.

Why cant same sex couple just have civil partnerships?

 

Dont care.

i'm not sure how things work in the UK but the USA has a ton of "marriage laws" that give married couples extra rights and entitlements non-married people don't get.  civil partnerships also are not covered by marriage laws.

i had a friend that lost her business due to being a lesbian.  she put her partner on her checking account.  as a small business owner she had significantly more money than her then grad student girlfriend.  the IRS came and said because they were not married those monies fell under "gift tax" laws (taxed at ~50%).  financially it nearly destroyed her.

so no, civil partnerships are not enough.

seperate but equal did not work for race.  it will not work for sexual preference.  i really don't care what people think in terms of religion and i really don't want government saying anything about marriage in context to peoples relgion.  but governing laws...laws need to be fair and equal.



fordy on 09 January 2013
think-man said:
fordy said:
think-man said:
Im not against gay marriage, but I am against gays/lesbians having kids together. It's just not fare on the kids who will have to grow up in a house that is different from 95% of the population.


So you'd prefer them to stay in orphanages where they feel like nobody loves them? What about to hetero couples that always fight, or are physically abusive? Would that be a better place to raise kids?

Im more talking about when they give sperm and have another women bare there child, or lesbians getting a sperm donor to make themselves pregnant.

Nowadays ( Well at least in my country) the familys go through extensive investigation to make sure they are fit to adopt a child, as well as support workers dropping by every couple of weeks to make sure everythings fine.


If they're going to a loving household, why should it make a difference?



Zkuq on 09 January 2013

Sorry, can't do without religion. Marriage is a religious thing and religions seem to be against gay marriage. That said, I believe there should be something similar for gay people, with similar rights but a different name. As for adoption rights... I think it should be given a much more careful thought but other than that, I think similar rights should be for gay people as well.



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kain_kusanagi on 09 January 2013
Majora said:
kain_kusanagi said:

Let me first say that I don't think gays are bad people and that I think they deserve just as much respect as anyone else.

With that said I am for Civil Unions for gays that come with all the same legal amenities as marriage. What I mean is that it wouldn't be called Marriage, but it would be like it in a legal sense.

The reason for this is I look at the natural world as having a purpose. Men and woman have sexual organs for procreation. That is why we are sexually attracted to each other, to have sex and make babies. Marriage is the result of human culture responding to human nature. Male and female fit together in nature. I'm not of the opinion that this is a choice so I don't judge people for being gay, but at the same time I don't believe that it is what humans are supposed to be.

With that said I would actually prefer it if the government would get out of marriage almost completely. The only reason that the government regulates marriage is for tax reasons. In my opinion there should be very few laws regarding marriage and the only one I can think of right now is minimum age of consent. If the government wasn't involved then anyone could "marry" anyone they want so long as they are of legal age. It would be a civil contract between two people just like it used to be hundreds of years ago. Religious people would get married in a church before God and non-religious people would just sign a standard marriage contract and have any kind of ceremony they want. This would let gays consider themselves really married and people who don't like it can just choose not to consider it real marriage.

A piece of paper from the government granting legal license doesn't really matter two the two people who love each other and are devoted to each other. Cut out the government and marriage is what ever the people choose to consider it between themselves. If that marriage comes to and end it would be no different than two business partners splitting assets in the closing of a hardware store.

Put simply, I want the government out of our lives, but since that won't happen I'm for Gay Civil Unions instead of Gay Marriage based on the natural purpose male and female reproduction.

I think this is very reasonable and well rounded. I'd vote for you in an election!! Great post IMO.

Thanks, but I, like all who have the best interest of the nation in mind, have no interest running for public office. That's why government is so screwed up.



think-man on 09 January 2013
fordy said:
think-man said:
fordy said:
think-man said:
Im not against gay marriage, but I am against gays/lesbians having kids together. It's just not fare on the kids who will have to grow up in a house that is different from 95% of the population.


So you'd prefer them to stay in orphanages where they feel like nobody loves them? What about to hetero couples that always fight, or are physically abusive? Would that be a better place to raise kids?

Im more talking about when they give sperm and have another women bare there child, or lesbians getting a sperm donor to make themselves pregnant.

Nowadays ( Well at least in my country) the familys go through extensive investigation to make sure they are fit to adopt a child, as well as support workers dropping by every couple of weeks to make sure everythings fine.


If they're going to a loving household, why should it make a difference?

Because they will be brought up in a house thinking its normal for men to be together, kids at school will  laugh and bully them if they found out.

Just read this: http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2012/08/6065/

Thats an inside view of a child growing up with gay parents.



 

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fordy on 09 January 2013
BasilZero said:
fordy said:
think-man said:
fordy said:
think-man said:
Im not against gay marriage, but I am against gays/lesbians having kids together. It's just not fare on the kids who will have to grow up in a house that is different from 95% of the population.


So you'd prefer them to stay in orphanages where they feel like nobody loves them? What about to hetero couples that always fight, or are physically abusive? Would that be a better place to raise kids?

Im more talking about when they give sperm and have another women bare there child, or lesbians getting a sperm donor to make themselves pregnant.

Nowadays ( Well at least in my country) the familys go through extensive investigation to make sure they are fit to adopt a child, as well as support workers dropping by every couple of weeks to make sure everythings fine.


If they're going to a loving household, why should it make a difference?


What gives you the notion that all heterosexual relationships (not saying you are saying it directly but the way you worded about it seems like that way) have a negative background like that and none of the homosexual relationships have it?

All types of relationships have issues - pretty sure there are background checks to see people's histories to see if there are actually problems before an adoption.


Where in my question does it imply that? I was stating that it's better for a child to be in a loving household, regardless of parents.



Mr Khan on 09 January 2013
BasilZero said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
BasilZero said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
As kids, we all grow up watching marriages all around us in series, films, other media and in reality. We watch a beautiful, traditional ceremony where a couple of humans experience what many (who has experienced it) would consider their greatest moments in their lives and we think, "One day I will be up there at the altar with my future partner and have the time of my life."


To deny anyone to experience that dream come true is plain, inhumane cruelty.


You need to watch Clannad (even if you dont watch anime).


Why?


You mentioned media consisting of marriages surrounding the love life of individuals - Clannad does the same thing except it didnt have a "Marriage/Wedding" but a Civil Union or at least that is what I think they had ;p

Just something to point out - plus it is a good recommendation that everyone needs to watch regardless of liking or hating anime!

Perhaps i should take on Clannad after finishing Girls und Panzer.

It's either that, or Sailor Moon (skipping the season that was Chibi-usa centric, except for the Dark Lady bit)

Anyway... I'm still combing through this thread. Lots of reports in here, so please try to keep it civil, but that doesn't mean everyone's safe.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

fordy on 09 January 2013
think-man said:
fordy said:
think-man said:
fordy said:
think-man said:
Im not against gay marriage, but I am against gays/lesbians having kids together. It's just not fare on the kids who will have to grow up in a house that is different from 95% of the population.


So you'd prefer them to stay in orphanages where they feel like nobody loves them? What about to hetero couples that always fight, or are physically abusive? Would that be a better place to raise kids?

Im more talking about when they give sperm and have another women bare there child, or lesbians getting a sperm donor to make themselves pregnant.

Nowadays ( Well at least in my country) the familys go through extensive investigation to make sure they are fit to adopt a child, as well as support workers dropping by every couple of weeks to make sure everythings fine.


If they're going to a loving household, why should it make a difference?

Because they will be brought up in a house thinking its normal for men to be together, kids at school will  laugh and bully them if they found out.

Just read this: http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2012/08/6065/

Thats an inside view of a child growing up with gay parents.


Are you saying the ends justifies the means? That gay couples cannot have children around because gay couples are looked down upon on society?

I'd say that's society's problem, not the problem of gay couples OR their kids. Society painted this image of them.

You don't think kids who were half white and half black received similar treatments back in an era of segregation? Society will adapt over time.