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Forums - General - Do we really need to kill animals??

NobleTeam360 said:
Why is killing animals for sustenance a big issue? As long as Humanity has been on Earth we have hunted and killed animals it's never going to change so this issue is really a non issue.

Did you kill the last animal that you have eaten? Did Homo neanderthalensis start Animal-Slavery?

I dont see what you are trying to say. 

The human beeing started as a planteater. We should still eat plants. A non issue. yes



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Meat contains vital vitamins and stuff that we need to keep healthy. This is why vegetarians needs to find another way of getting these vitamins by taking pills or something.



Jay520 said:


Bold: I'm not presenting my argument just yet. I'm just answering your question about plants having emotions.

Since, we're using Wikipedia articles, then yes, emotions require consciousness. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion . Plants lack feelings, etc because they lack both a brain and nervous system.

As for your questions, they are irrelevant as I haven't presented my perspective at all. I'm just answering your question about plants having emotions.


To cite the Wikipedia-article you linked: emotion is the generic term for subjective, conscious experience

Subjective is the key here. We cannot measure emotion. So we don't know if animals, plants or whatever have these. Sure, I think it's unlikely plants have emotions. But I'm not really sure, emotions are really existing or are something of an illusion our brain produces. Just like if you put a videogame into the console you might think a world exists behind the screen of your television. You may know that it is not the case, but your brain produces the illusion from flickering images. Emotion might be simulated the same, to justify for our consciousness, why we did something that is possibly done by our body automati (like breathing).

All I say is, that it is hard to justify morale/ethics. If someone says he thinks eating animals is morally wrong, because in his opinion killing animals is wrong, than I'm OK with it. If someone says it is morally wrong, because animals have emotions, then I start to argue. Ethics/Moral isn't something that can be much reasoned. People decide about morals and stick to it (or change it later). Our morals have changed pretty much over the last centuries. And they will change more.



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Ultr said:

The human beeing started as a planteater. We should still eat plants. A non issue. yes

What do you mean with that? Our ancestors in evolution (all homo habilis and homo erectus) were omnivore like we are. Probably I misunderstood what you mean with 'human beings started'? But on evolutionary terms a mixed diet is completely natural for us.



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Mnementh said:
Jay520 said:


Bold: I'm not presenting my argument just yet. I'm just answering your question about plants having emotions.

Since, we're using Wikipedia articles, then yes, emotions require consciousness. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion . Plants lack feelings, etc because they lack both a brain and nervous system.

As for your questions, they are irrelevant as I haven't presented my perspective at all. I'm just answering your question about plants having emotions.


To cite the Wikipedia-article you linked: emotion is the generic term for subjective, conscious experience

Subjective is the key here. We cannot measure emotion. So we don't know if animals, plants or whatever have these. Sure, I think it's unlikely plants have emotions.



Yes, subjective is one requirement for emotions. However, its not the only requirement for emotions. Consciousness is also required, which itself depends on the existence of a brain and nervous system, which plants do not have.

I do not care for discussing the philosophy or existence of emotions as that was never the point at all. My point is plants do not have emotions, answering your initial question.

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Jay520 said:
 


Yes, subjective is one requirement for emotions. However, its not the only requirement for emotions. Consciousness is also required, which itself depends on the existence of a brain and nervous system, which plants do not have.

I do not care for discussing the philosophy or existence of emotions as that was never the point at all. My point is plants do not have emotions, answering your initial question.


You can't be sure, as emotions itself cannot be showed. But that aside, I myself answered someone, who was stating that emotions of animals are the reason we should not eat meat.



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Mnementh said:
Jay520 said:
 


Yes, subjective is one requirement for emotions. However, its not the only requirement for emotions. Consciousness is also required, which itself depends on the existence of a brain and nervous system, which plants do not have.

I do not care for discussing the philosophy or existence of emotions as that was never the point at all. My point is plants do not have emotions, answering your initial question.


You can't be sure, as emotions itself cannot be showed. But that aside, I myself answered someone, who was stating that emotions of animals are the reason we should not eat meat.



Yes we can be sure. Emotions by definition necessitates the existence of some form of nervous system or brain. Plants do not have these. So we can say for sure that plants do not have emotions, by definition of emotions.

i think it's necesary, come on in nature animals eat other animals it's not something unnatural or cruel ,
it's just life , i think the only bad thing is that in order to raise animals, they destroy forests jungles etc to give them the space to roam , but in my opinion is okay to eat them



No, but I eat meat anyway because I don't give a shit. Not because I'm an inconsiderate arsehole but because the treatment of animals and actual slaughtering of them never crosses my mind when I take a bite out of that delicious burger or steak.



VGKing said:
Meat contains vital vitamins and stuff that we need to keep healthy. This is why vegetarians needs to find another way of getting these vitamins by taking pills or something.

If you need the takin of pills, there is probably something wrong with what you eat.

YOU will to actually think about what you eat, and what you take to you. But this is something EVERYONE should do! Think about everything you do, we have the ability.

"Most people think vegans and vegetarians need to worry about protein. In reality, a healthy vegan/vegetarian who eats plenty of fruits, vegetables legumes (beans, peas, etc.), and whole grains, gets plenty of protein. What we do need to be concerned about is getting enough vitamin B12, iron, and omega 3. To make sure you're getting plenty of these, eat fortified foods (like cereals), take vitamins/supplements (like a decent multivitamin), and be sure to eat foods and oils (like olive oil, canola oil, and especially flaxseeds or flaxseed oil) that are high in essential fatty acids."

http://www.veghealthguide.com/vitamins-minerals/