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Forums - General - Should we take "Christ" out Christmas?

 

Should "Christ" be taken out of this time of Year?

It's a religious Holiday... 189 64.51%
 
It's not about any Relig... 54 18.43%
 
I really don't care - wh... 50 17.06%
 
Total:293
DaRev on 24 December 2012
llewdebkram said:
I've always thought Jesus spoils Christmas, whoever decided to try and turn the time of year for getting drunk, over eating and getting expensive presents into a time for remembering Jesus must have been crazy; Get your own celebration day and leave our December the 25th alone!!

My guess it was the same people who decided to try and 'include' children in the celebrations when we all know Christmas is a time for adults!

Merry Christ doesn't existmas to you all !

that did make me



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Runa216 on 24 December 2012
djs said:
I say merry christmas, i don't say happy holidays.

Christmas is about the birth if Christ, not about shopping frenzy and holidays.
It's about forgiving and caring.

The Birth of christ happened in April or May (spring), Christmas  is just a stolen pagan holiday with christian values put over top of it. 

I don't say happy holidays, nor do I say Merry christmas.  I just don't care for the season.  Used to, until my mother, father, and aunt went on a crusade about how 'the muslims are taking away our freedoms by forcing us to say Happy Holidays; it's all a plot to take over Canada and the US."  because my aunt worked at a call center and was informed that, since she worked at a call center, she was to say happy holidays instead of Merry christmas.  

That's when I lost my christmas spirit.  

Seriously, if asked to say Happy Holidays, just fucking say it.  there's nothing to be gained by a militaristic forcing of "Merry christmas" on others.  It means the same damn thing.  The only people who are offended during the holiday season are the people who are afraid the world might be changing and we live in a world where Christianity isn't the only religion!  GASP!  

So say Merry christmas, Say Happy Kwanza, say Feliz Navidad, say Happy Chanukkah, or say happy holidays.  It all means the same damn thing, and no matter what you're asked to say, don't raise a fuss about it.  

Yes, that rant was aimed more at my family than you guys, but still.  It's frustrating beyond all hell.

To me, Christmas is about gifts.  It's a time of the year when I get shit, and have a reason to get shit for my friends and people I care about.  I don't care about the religious implications, I don't care about spending time with my family, I don't care about the holiday spirit or christmas lights, I hate christmas carols and shitty covers of carols, I hate the season, I only like presents. (Though I admit I like GIVING more than I like GETTING).  Anyone who ever pretended otherwise is a fool.  Christmas is about buying shit, giving shit, and getting shit.  Booyah!  

Happy Holidays, y'all, in whatever form you prefer. 



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Player1x3 on 24 December 2012
fighter said:
Player1x3 said:
fighter said:
haxxiy said:
Marks said:
Are you kidding? The whole point of Christmas is the birth of Christ...the reason we give gifts is because the wise men gave gifts to Christ.

That's like trying to take St. Patrick out of St. Patrick's Day or St. Valentine out of Valentine's Day....what's the fucking point?

Man I'm really tired of non-Christians trying to change Christian traditions in a Christian country. You don't hear about Christians going to Israel or Saudi Arabia and demand Jewish or Muslim traditions be changed...so why in America?

Saying happy holidays is MORE THAN SUFFICIENT...we don't need to now disrespect the hell out of Christmas by taking Christ's name out of it.

What, haven't you heard? Male white christians dominated the world for twenty centuries, opressed the hell out of everyone, Sauron style, and should pay for it now. Yeah, some people believe that despite China and India dominating world trade and culture all the way to the late 19th century, and women being held in way higher regard in the west throughout most of history. I blame good old ethnocentrism, only working in reverse this time...

christian believers are in the minority in western culture and they transformed a pagan celebration into a fake date of jesus birth

No, actually, it's the non christians who are in minority in The West

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_by_country

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Portugal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Spain

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_France

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Germany

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_UK#Statistics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Italy

and the best for last

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_United_States

Try again. And these were ones using highly humanist and secular - irreligion biased sources (aka EU)



kain_kusanagi on 25 December 2012
DaRev said:
Dmick90 said:
Christmas is a household name, you're never going to change that. It's just too big a holiday to try to change it. Liberals are trying to take God/Christ out of the pledge, schools, and everything. It really aggravates me. Just leave it alone it's not hurting anyone, that's the way it's been for centuries.

I thinks its funny how there is today (almost seems like forever now) been either very open or covert attacks on Christianity. Problem is that Christianity in its truest nature has to take it, and not retaliate so to speak - or turn the other cheek. So if people, Governments or Courts want to take God/Christ out of everyday living, then Christianity IMO says so be it, it's your right to choose. But I agree it is a difficult pill to swallow.

That's not true. You're taking Jesus' teachings on violence and insult and applying it to all aspects of life. To turn the other cheek is to not do harm. Petitioning, protesting, etc. to keep Christ in Christmas would not be against Christianity.

If the majority of America wanted to dump religion, which would not happen because the majority of Americans are religious, it would NOT be against Jesus' teaching to argue against it, appeal to courts, and organizing demonstrations against the religion bans. Doing violence in a retaliatory way would be, but not peaceful petitioning.



kain_kusanagi on 25 December 2012
fighter said:
Wh1pL4shL1ve_007 said:
djs said:
I say merry christmas, i don't say happy holidays.

Christmas is about the birth if Christ, not about shopping frenzy and holidays.
It's about forgiving and caring.


This. Christmas is always been called christmas. It depends on how you interpret it. But christmas was originally created to celebrate the birth of Jesus. No one in the world has a good enough reason to remove Christ from Christmas. 


christmas was a "re-branding" of a pagan holiday

That's a twisting of history. The truth is that the church moved Christmas and adopted a smidgen of the pagan holiday's traditions to subvert the pagan holiday to more easily convert the pagans. The church did not rebrand it, they replaced it.

A rebrand would be to take the original, change the name, and sell it as something else. But what Church really did was compete for the minds of the potential converts with an alternative holiday and make it as easy for them to accept as possible.

What we ended up with today is a Christmas with a little extra flavor. What your suggesting is we have a pagan holiday with a Christian title.



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Majora on 25 December 2012
wfz said:
You forgot to put a "Christmas isn't about religion. 'Christmas' is fine."


This. So glad you said it. Balls to Jesus or whatever. Here I am, a big nasty atheist spending an amazing night and day with family, eating too much, getting drunk and exchanging gifts. Merry Christmas everyone :)



Dmick90 on 25 December 2012
Torillian said:

Dmick90 said:
Christmas is a household name, you're never going to change that. It's just too big a holiday to try to change it. Liberals are trying to take God/Christ out of the pledge, schools, and everything. It really aggravates me. Just leave it alone it's not hurting anyone, that's the way it's been for centuries.

 


"way it's been for centuries" seems a bit much.  Only information I've seen for the pledge says that Under God was added in the 50's.  Hardly centuries of history.  Given that it was written in 1892 and the Under God part added in 1954 it's spent about half its history without a single mention of god so we'd just be going back to its original intentions.  

I have no specific disdain for any religion over another, but it's my belief that the government should stay away from anything that would seem like condemnation or allegiance to any one religion or the existence or not of religion and the pledge of allegiance is included in that.

Christmas is a holiday that has been around for centuries, and while the pledge has not been around for centuries it has been around quite a long time. The United States afterall was and is founded as a nation under God, so to try to change that or deny it is disrespectful to our founding fathers and the history this country built on. Like someone else said here that Christmas has become a bigger phenomenon than what it was originally intended for. Like I said, Christmas has become a universal term nowadays, could mean anything to anyone. You don't even have to be Christian to celebrate Christmas as many atheists, and non-Christians do. Christmas is also used as a marketing term. Why do you think businesses prefer Merry Christmas over Happy Holidays? Because Merry Christmas identifies more with customers, which means more $. 

Anyways, i'm really not interested in a debate over religion but Merry Christmas is the term America uses. Sorry but that's just the way it is...



menx64 on 25 December 2012

Merry Christmas



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fighter on 25 December 2012
Player1x3 said:
fighter said:
Player1x3 said:
fighter said:
haxxiy said:
Marks said:
Are you kidding? The whole point of Christmas is the birth of Christ...the reason we give gifts is because the wise men gave gifts to Christ.

That's like trying to take St. Patrick out of St. Patrick's Day or St. Valentine out of Valentine's Day....what's the fucking point?

Man I'm really tired of non-Christians trying to change Christian traditions in a Christian country. You don't hear about Christians going to Israel or Saudi Arabia and demand Jewish or Muslim traditions be changed...so why in America?

Saying happy holidays is MORE THAN SUFFICIENT...we don't need to now disrespect the hell out of Christmas by taking Christ's name out of it.

What, haven't you heard? Male white christians dominated the world for twenty centuries, opressed the hell out of everyone, Sauron style, and should pay for it now. Yeah, some people believe that despite China and India dominating world trade and culture all the way to the late 19th century, and women being held in way higher regard in the west throughout most of history. I blame good old ethnocentrism, only working in reverse this time...

christian believers are in the minority in western culture and they transformed a pagan celebration into a fake date of jesus birth

No, actually, it's the non christians who are in minority in The West

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_by_country

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Portugal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Spain

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_France

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Germany

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_UK#Statistics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Italy

and the best for last

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_United_States

Try again. And these were ones using highly humanist and secular - irreligion biased sources (aka EU)


the stats you show consider most atheists and agnostics as christians

 

not the case sorry



fighter on 25 December 2012
kain_kusanagi said:
fighter said:
Wh1pL4shL1ve_007 said:
djs said:
I say merry christmas, i don't say happy holidays.

Christmas is about the birth if Christ, not about shopping frenzy and holidays.
It's about forgiving and caring.


This. Christmas is always been called christmas. It depends on how you interpret it. But christmas was originally created to celebrate the birth of Jesus. No one in the world has a good enough reason to remove Christ from Christmas. 


christmas was a "re-branding" of a pagan holiday

That's a twisting of history. The truth is that the church moved Christmas and adopted a smidgen of the pagan holiday's traditions to subvert the pagan holiday to more easily convert the pagans. The church did not rebrand it, they replaced it.

A rebrand would be to take the original, change the name, and sell it as something else. But what Church really did was compete for the minds of the potential converts with an alternative holiday and make it as easy for them to accept as possible.

What we ended up with today is a Christmas with a little extra flavor. What your suggesting is we have a pagan holiday with a Christian title.


exactly what they did