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Forums - Politics Discussion - This is why I don't like debating religion

Majora on 17 December 2012
Runa216 said:
Majora said:

I don't think you understand what exactly it is that you are posing. Alexander the Great is an historical figure who apart from leaving behind many buildings has also left archaeologists with a wealth of artifacts as evidence to his existence.

The knowledge of the existence of Alexander the Great is different to the written "proof" of God in that (lack of archaeological evidence aside) Alexander the Great is now presented as an omnipotent being who's word is law over all men. The existence of Alexander the Great does not require you to suspend belief for it to appear perfectly reasonable that he did exist.

Another point you are missing in this debate is that whether God exists or not is really not important. As there is no evidence or any logical reason to believe he exists, why worry about whether he exists or not? Using your logic, there is no proof that unicorns, fairies and other pantheons of Gods and Goddesses do not exist, however the difference there is that most people these days aren't worrying, stressing or fighting over their potential existence. If they exist, that's wonderful but as they are not present or tangible it really isn't important. It is important however that we acknowledge what is real and what does exist.

FYI - I am not suggesting that Jesus didn't exist - I think it entirely reasonable to believe that he did. I just know that if he did exist, he was potentially mentally unstable as he claimed to be the son of an invisible deity. If I suggested to you that I was the son of god and truly believed it, would I be worthy of your time and adoration or would you dismiss me as crazy or mistaken? There is so much evidence to suggest that a god is not only unlikely but entirely unncessary that I don't see how anyone who believes in such a being isn't entirely ignorant to the world around them.

L. Ron Hubbard was a real person who really existed, that doesn't mean Scientology is real or that he really was the catalyst behind Xenu's army. 

By that logic, Scientology is more credible than christianity. 


Perhaps this message should be relayed to our religious friends at large =p



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timmah on 17 December 2012
dsgrue3 said:
timmah said:

Even now, we cannot directly observe or 'see' atoms or atomic particles, we can only observe the effects of those particles using electron microscopes or other means and use that to piece together our understanding.

My own faith comes, not from seeing God directly, but from seeing the effect He has had on my life and the lives of others. That's not something I can argue you into believing.


An atom is smaller than the wavelength of light, how do you suggest we see it at all? We cannot use light to view it, but we can use certain techniques.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/atom10.htm

The effect God has on your life? As in?

That's what I was referring to. We see the electrical effects of the atom and make our determinations based on that. When you go into sub-atomic particles, our hard knowledge gets even fuzzier, especially in regards to how the particles behave.

My point is that, faith is not something I can argue you into believing, or that you can argue me out of believing. In my case, I have absolutely seen lives changed, specifically and most recently a good friend of mine that turned his life over to God and was able to kick a serious drug & alcohol problem literally overnight with zero withdrawal after many thought he was a lost cause. This was something that professional help and 12 step programs had failed to control. I'm not going to tell you my life story or write a book in an effort to convince you, I'm just trying to make the point that for many, faith is not just some blind stupidity as you may see it from the outside, but something that is deeply ingrained into who we are.



happydolphin on 17 December 2012
dsgrue3 said:

Reported for what, exactly? It isn't as if I were cursing at you in a derogatory way merely using it to display my frustration with your question.

The animal kingdom doesn't need to fathom the atom in order for its existence to be observed. Everything we observe is evidence for the atom. It makes up everything, the fundamental building block. There can be observation without knowledge. The Sun was certainly observed before we knew it was a star. Come on...you're grasping at straws here.

And as can be argued about God. Everything he created is evidence for him. The complexity, the immensity.

When we dive into that level of logic, the door is open, whether in a naturalistic mindset or in a metaphysical one.

But to say that something only exists if there is evidence for it, then there are many places on earth that the eye has not seen. By that logic these places simply do not exist.



Runa216 on 17 December 2012
happydolphin said:
dsgrue3 said:

Reported for what, exactly? It isn't as if I were cursing at you in a derogatory way merely using it to display my frustration with your question.

The animal kingdom doesn't need to fathom the atom in order for its existence to be observed. Everything we observe is evidence for the atom. It makes up everything, the fundamental building block. There can be observation without knowledge. The Sun was certainly observed before we knew it was a star. Come on...you're grasping at straws here.

And as can be argued about God. Everything he created is evidence for him. The complexity, the immensity.

When we dive into that level of logic, the door is open, whether in a naturalistic mindset or in a metaphysical one.

But to say that something only exists if there is evidence for it, then there are many places on earth that the eye has not seen. By that logic these places simply do not exist.

You reported him and got him banned becuase he got frustrated with your hilarious lack of justification for your viewpoint?  Wow dude, just wow.  Grow a pair and learn to be a bit more civil and well-spoken in the first place and peopel won't lose their temper with you. 

No wonder why I keep getting banned: people like you reporting becuase your feelings get hurt over something that wasn't even directed at you.  Yet another case of religious people unable to handle criticism and crying to the bosses.  



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happydolphin on 17 December 2012
Runa216 said:

You reported him and got him banned becuase he got frustrated with your hilarious lack of justification for your viewpoint?  Wow dude, just wow.  Grow a pair and learn to be a bit more civil and well-spoken in the first place and peopel won't lose their temper with you. 

No wonder why I keep getting banned: people like you reporting becuase your feelings get hurt over something that wasn't even directed at you.  Yet another case of religious people unable to handle criticism and crying to the bosses.  

I also reported this.^

This has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with reporting people who flame other users for no reason. I'm just following the mods' advice, so if there's an issue from my end they will figure it out.



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Runa216 on 17 December 2012
happydolphin said:
Runa216 said:

You reported him and got him banned becuase he got frustrated with your hilarious lack of justification for your viewpoint?  Wow dude, just wow.  Grow a pair and learn to be a bit more civil and well-spoken in the first place and peopel won't lose their temper with you. 

No wonder why I keep getting banned: people like you reporting becuase your feelings get hurt over something that wasn't even directed at you.  Yet another case of religious people unable to handle criticism and crying to the bosses.  

I also reported this.^

This has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with reporting people who flame other users for no reason. I'm just following the mods' advice, so if there's an issue from my end they will figure it out.

the sad part is, I'll almost certainly be banned for it despite the fact that nothing I said was wrong or inflammatory.  

is there an option to just put people on an ignore list so I don't have to see your posts? 



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

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happydolphin on 17 December 2012
Runa216 said:

the sad part is, I'll almost certainly be banned for it despite the fact that nothing I said was wrong or inflammatory.  

is there an option to just put people on an ignore list so I don't have to see your posts? 

It's pretty simple. Don't equate actions people do due to their religion background. Don't generalize a people group:
" Yet another case of religious people unable to handle criticism and crying to the bosses.  "

I actually wanted to have a civil chat, but I'm learning to do things the right way.



happydolphin on 17 December 2012
Runa216 said:

the sad part is, I'll almost certainly be banned for it despite the fact that nothing I said was wrong or inflammatory.  

is there an option to just put people on an ignore list so I don't have to see your posts? 

I think someone created an ignore script, but I'm not sure it works anymore.



Alara317 on 17 December 2012
happydolphin said:
Runa216 said:

the sad part is, I'll almost certainly be banned for it despite the fact that nothing I said was wrong or inflammatory.  

is there an option to just put people on an ignore list so I don't have to see your posts? 

It's pretty simple. Don't equate actions people do due to their religion background. Don't generalize a people group:
" Yet another case of religious people unable to handle criticism and crying to the bosses.  "

I actually wanted to have a civil chat, but I'm learning to do things the right way.

You remind me of a sniveling heel in WWE.  like CM punk whining to the GM about how it's unfair to have to defend his championship at a pay per view even though that's totally what it's about.  If you can't handle criticism in a thread about criticisng religion, don't come to a thread about debating the merits of religious arguments.  

That would be like me joining the UFC and whining because someone broke my nose.  If you can't take the heat, get out of the fire. 



happydolphin on 17 December 2012
Alara317 said:

You remind me of a sniveling heel in WWE.  like CM punk whining to the GM about how it's unfair to have to defend his championship at a pay per view even though that's totally what it's about.  If you can't handle criticism in a thread about criticisng religion, don't come to a thread about debating the merits of religious arguments.  

That would be like me joining the UFC and whining because someone broke my nose.  If you can't take the heat, get out of the fire. 

You can criticize religion in a civil manner, but to say that I am unable to handle criticism due to my religious background and that I go crying to the bosses after reporting a user is something else. it's called flaming.