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Forums - Nintendo - System Faults Didn't Stop THQ From Bringing Metro: Last Light To Wii U

Aielyn said:
zarx said:
The Wii U isn't even close to a tenth of the addressable audience of even the PS3 and the devs already said due to how the game uses the CPU the Wii U version would show the game in an unfavorable light.

Metro 2033 sold twice as much on PC as 360, adding the PS3 may add upto (most likely less) an extra 25% more addressable market (gamers interested in this type of game that own a PS3 and not a PC or X360) the 360 version will be the best selling console version by far so 15% is probably more acurate. But the Wii U currently has an almost nonexistant market share, so the gain in addressable market would be negligable to nonexistant. I can't see how diverting the resources from the Wii U port into making the 3 versions with the largest market share better, is a bad business decision for a company that might not exist to see any potential rewards from establishing a market on an unproven platform.

The dev has since said that that wasn't true, that Metro wasn't ever actually tested on the Wii U, so they couldn't tell you whether the CPU could handle it.

The Wii U has practically nonexistant market share *now*. It launched three weeks ago, of course it doesn't. Guess what - every platform has been in exactly the same position. Did developers refuse to develop for the 360 because it had only sold a couple of million, after a few months? No, they put their games on the system. And taking risks is also known as doing business. THQ are in a hole that is deep enough that continuing to do what they've always done, and playing things safe, is pretty much a guaranteed death sentence.


No THQ PR went into damage control mode. There is a differance. They had early dev kitts and the head of engine development got the impression that the CPU would cause problems for his engine and that a potential Wii U version would show the game in a bad light. So they decided with THQ to scrap the Wii U version and focus on the other 3 as they decided it wasn't going to be worth the investment. 

Yes there is plenty of good reasons to be at a console launch, which is why THQ launched Darksiders 2 on Wii U. But that only makes sense if the game will be better on the new platform (past launch where people will buy almost anything as there is not much choice) on X360 there was much more hardware power to drive interest over the old platforms, on the Wii motion controls brought new novel game experiances. The Wii U on the other hand would most likely be a slightly worse performing version with some buttons thrown onto the tablet. Unless you have a gimmick to do with the Wii U pad such as Zombi U's inventory, BLOPS 2's local multiplayer or even the Aliens motion tracker there is no reason for someone to buy the Wii U version of a game over another platform, unlike past new consoles so you would only be addressing Nintendo fanboys with Wii U versions. Metro has no split screen, no real need for a map and no real inventory management there is really nothing to gain from a Wii U version of the game.



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I'll leave it at that I don't think I need to add anything more here.



Tease.

Mazty said:
Cobretti2 said:
Mazty said:

So let me repeat myself:
If you are developing a game that will go on the 360 and PS3, which are significantly larger markets then the Wii U, whilst being sure that most Wii U owners will own either a PS3 or 360, why develop for the Wii U? More to the point, why develop for the Wii U this close to the end of a gaming generation when you could be focusing on the next gen? 

Well if they are focusing on next gen I am guessing Wii U will be getting many future unannouced games instead of these current gen games in development.

If we look at generations in terms of hardware, then the Wii U is not next-gen as it is not capable of producing much more then the existing consoles. 

As a developer if you are looking to significantly increase what your games can technically do, as in go fromt his gen to the next, you will be looking at the dev kits for the next xbox and playstation. 

This guy clearly has no clue.

Stop wasting your time people.



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Aielyn said:
Mazty said:
Word of the day: "concise".

If you are just going to throw around ad hominems like "fanboy" or "anti-fanboy" then I can't be bothered with this debate. End of the day, you think you know better then developers and publishers who will have ran the figures (obviously) before coming to a conclusion. As I have said, why the hell bother developing for the Wii U when most owners will already have a PS3 or 360?

I'd rather be correct than concise, and a detailed argument is better than a flawed but short one.

I didn't once use "fanboy" or "anti-fanboy" as an ad hominem. Please do not use terms if you don't actually understand them. My use of those terms was not as part of an argument against anything you said. "Ad hominem" means to attack the person instead of their argument, or to argue against them by attacking the person. My comments about fanboyism served the purpose of emphasising that your argument is the same one trotted out by many other people who have exactly the same mindset as you do, and that perhaps there would be value in trying to look at things from other perspectives.

I gave a detailed explanation of why you should develop for the Wii U. You ignored it. I gave a more detailed explanation, with examples of games demonstrating why developing core games for a console can pay off in the long term, even on consoles that are seen as "inferior" or "for teh casualz". You ignored it.

Consider this. The Wii was seen as not much more powerful than the PS2. The PS2 was still being sold. By your reasoning, a console with well over 100 million units sold is the competition for a new console... why bother supporting it? Well, it turned out that that new console was a megahit, and that large sales were seen for third parties when they actually put in serious effort. Resident Evil 4 sold well over 2 million copies on the Wii, despite being a port of a two and a half year old title that had already sold on both the immediate predecessor of the Wii and on the biggest-selling console of the previous generation, which was meant to be in competition with the Wii according to people like you.

By your reasoning, who did it sell Resident Evil 4 to? I mean, any core gamer who owned a Wii had to own a PS2 or a Gamecube already, right? So what was the value in releasing the game for the Wii? And yet, Resident Evil 4 laid the groundwork that allowed Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles to sell exceptionally well. And that game then also allowed games like House of the Dead to flourish. It laid the groundwork for Silent Hill: Shattered Memories. One could even argue that it laid the groundwork for MadWorld, a title that just about every anti-fanboy that hated Nintendo said wouldn't sell on the Wii, yet managed a rather noteworthy 700,000 copies.

Until you can reasonably explain why situations like that are different from the Wii U, your argument remains nothing but a fanboy argument.

Concise:

Giving a lot of information clearly and in a few words; brief but comprehensive.

Definitely your word for the day as you excuse for not being concise doesn't make sense...You were trying to imply my argument is that of a fanboy's rather then trying to logically refute it. That makes it an ad hominem, does it not? 
You explanation for developing for the Wii U is flawed from the start as you are comparing it to the Wii at launch, which is a fundamental failure in recognising where the Wii U stands in the current market.  
Again you make the same mistake comparing the Wii to the PS2 as the 360 was already on the market, as well as the PS3. The PS2 was being sold, but not supported to the same degree as when it was in it's prime. 
 Currently the Wii U is competiting head to head with two consoles which have over 70 million users each before the end of their lifecycle. As the Wii U is meant to appeal to core gamers, you are again failing to understand the difference in both the products on offer and the markets they are in. To spell things out clearly for you, the Wii U is Nintendo's Xbox 360. RE:Chronicles didn't sell extremely well. It sold pretty poorly considering it was an exclusive on the market leading console. Just Cause 2 on the PS3, a multiplatform game, outsold it, so did Dead Island, which was an abysmal game. 

700,000 copies is terrible for an exclusive on a console which had the market majority. As stated above and if you have bothered to do any research, well advertised multiplatforms sell over double that on one platform alone. So in fact what you have shown is that core  exclusive games on the Wii sold like shit compared to multiplatforms on the other two consoles. This therefore brings us back to the point that why bother developing for the Wii U when you can save money and make a lot of sales by just selling games for the 360 & PS3? You have killed your own argument here and sorry, buy your argument is the one that's tied up in fanboy lunacy as you haven't bothered to actually compare sales whatsoever. 



Mazty said:
Definitely your word for the day as you excuse for not being concise doesn't make sense...You were trying to imply my argument is that of a fanboy's rather then trying to logically refute it. That makes it an ad hominem, does it not? 
You explanation for developing for the Wii U is flawed from the start as you are comparing it to the Wii at launch, which is a fundamental failure in recognising where the Wii U stands in the current market.  
Again you make the same mistake comparing the Wii to the PS2 as the 360 was already on the market, as well as the PS3. The PS2 was being sold, but not supported to the same degree as when it was in it's prime. 
 Currently the Wii U is competiting head to head with two consoles which have over 70 million users each before the end of their lifecycle. As the Wii U is meant to appeal to core gamers, you are again failing to understand the difference in both the products on offer and the markets they are in. To spell things out clearly for you, the Wii U is Nintendo's Xbox 360. RE:Chronicles didn't sell extremely well. It sold pretty poorly considering it was an exclusive on the market leading console. Just Cause 2 on the PS3, a multiplatform game, outsold it, so did Dead Island, which was an abysmal game.

700,000 copies is terrible for an exclusive on a console which had the market majority. As stated above and if you have bothered to do any research, well advertised multiplatforms sell over double that on one platform alone. So in fact what you have shown is that core  exclusive games on the Wii sold like shit compared to multiplatforms on the other two consoles. This therefore brings us back to the point that why bother developing for the Wii U when you can save money and make a lot of sales by just selling games for the 360 & PS3? You have killed your own argument here and sorry, buy your argument is the one that's tied up in fanboy lunacy as you haven't bothered to actually compare sales whatsoever.

I find it hilarious that you're once again complaining about my lack of concisity, even as you write nearly incomprehensible blocks of text.

Ad hominem is where you attack a person, rather than their argument. Your assertion that I attacked your argument as a fanboy argument does not categorise itself as an ad hominem, as it was a matter of attacking an argument, and not you. But then, I didn't even do that. The only thing I did was attack your choice of words as being reflective of a trait I had predicted about you. It was independent of any actual argument being made. Indeed, the part that you're referring to was one relatively short paragraph in a reply that you were complaining about the length of. Did you not read the rest of it?

Indeed, I've pointed out a response to everything you've said here, except one, which I'll address below. For the rest, read my previous posts. There's a reason why I put a lot of detail into them - so I don't have to keep repeating myself.

So, the one point to respond to? The claim that RE:Chronicles didn't sell well. You compare it to Just Cause and Dead Island. There are multiple issues with that. The biggest one, though, is that Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles was a spinoff title that was a lightgun game, released less than half a year after Resident Evil 4. On a console that so many fanboys deride as being "casuals only" or "not for core gamers", you're talking about a game with multiple reasons for "weak" sales, yet still managing more than just "healthy" sales, but significant sales. Now imagine what would have happened if they'd followed it up with a new Resident Evil game in the style of Resident Evil 4.

And what I find hilarious is the "market leader" commentary... which always contradicts the other equivalent arguments. Apparently, because it had a higher install base, it must sell more of every game - actual game markets be damned.



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Aielyn said:
Mazty said:
Definitely your word for the day as you excuse for not being concise doesn't make sense...You were trying to imply my argument is that of a fanboy's rather then trying to logically refute it. That makes it an ad hominem, does it not? 
You explanation for developing for the Wii U is flawed from the start as you are comparing it to the Wii at launch, which is a fundamental failure in recognising where the Wii U stands in the current market.  
Again you make the same mistake comparing the Wii to the PS2 as the 360 was already on the market, as well as the PS3. The PS2 was being sold, but not supported to the same degree as when it was in it's prime. 
 Currently the Wii U is competiting head to head with two consoles which have over 70 million users each before the end of their lifecycle. As the Wii U is meant to appeal to core gamers, you are again failing to understand the difference in both the products on offer and the markets they are in. To spell things out clearly for you, the Wii U is Nintendo's Xbox 360. RE:Chronicles didn't sell extremely well. It sold pretty poorly considering it was an exclusive on the market leading console. Just Cause 2 on the PS3, a multiplatform game, outsold it, so did Dead Island, which was an abysmal game.

700,000 copies is terrible for an exclusive on a console which had the market majority. As stated above and if you have bothered to do any research, well advertised multiplatforms sell over double that on one platform alone. So in fact what you have shown is that core  exclusive games on the Wii sold like shit compared to multiplatforms on the other two consoles. This therefore brings us back to the point that why bother developing for the Wii U when you can save money and make a lot of sales by just selling games for the 360 & PS3? You have killed your own argument here and sorry, buy your argument is the one that's tied up in fanboy lunacy as you haven't bothered to actually compare sales whatsoever.

I find it hilarious that you're once again complaining about my lack of concisity, even as you write nearly incomprehensible blocks of text.

Ad hominem is where you attack a person, rather than their argument. Your assertion that I attacked your argument as a fanboy argument does not categorise itself as an ad hominem, as it was a matter of attacking an argument, and not you. But then, I didn't even do that. The only thing I did was attack your choice of words as being reflective of a trait I had predicted about you. It was independent of any actual argument being made. Indeed, the part that you're referring to was one relatively short paragraph in a reply that you were complaining about the length of. Did you not read the rest of it?

Indeed, I've pointed out a response to everything you've said here, except one, which I'll address below. For the rest, read my previous posts. There's a reason why I put a lot of detail into them - so I don't have to keep repeating myself.

So, the one point to respond to? The claim that RE:Chronicles didn't sell well. You compare it to Just Cause and Dead Island. There are multiple issues with that. The biggest one, though, is that Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles was a spinoff title that was a lightgun game, released less than half a year after Resident Evil 4. On a console that so many fanboys deride as being "casuals only" or "not for core gamers", you're talking about a game with multiple reasons for "weak" sales, yet still managing more than just "healthy" sales, but significant sales. Now imagine what would have happened if they'd followed it up with a new Resident Evil game in the style of Resident Evil 4.

And what I find hilarious is the "market leader" commentary... which always contradicts the other equivalent arguments. Apparently, because it had a higher install base, it must sell more of every game - actual game markets be damned.

Concise =/= consistancy. You draw comparisons between the Wii U and the Wii which is just jibberish with no logical thought behind it. 

Those sales weren't healthy. It proved that the 360 and PS3 are considerably more profitable to develop for. 

Well yes, if there are more WIi's sold, then you would expect that console to sell a greater volume of exclusive games rather then considerably less. If it sells less then the 360 and PS3, then why not just develop for those two platforms and triple your sales? Your argument has no basis. You think devs should make WIi U games as it will win customers over but you are completely ignoring just how many customers it'd win over. The answer is not enough to justify the development cost, more so when you consider the 140 million PS3/360's out there. 

But then again, maybe everyone in a multibillion dollar industry has it wrong and a random wii u owner on a forum has it right....



RE Umbrella Chronicles was supported because of a promise of a real RE game if fans bought it. THe second game would not exist at all had it not gotten good sales on Wii.. How does the sales of a rail shooter on one console prove other console that didnt have rail shooters is where the money is?Looking over your preevious post I can only say you are a moron with no understanding of the subject you are trying to argue



Mazty said:
But then again, maybe everyone in a multibillion dollar industry has it wrong and a random wii u owner on a forum has it right....

I don't own a Wii U, so I don't know who you're talking about.



Voice0fReason said:
RE Umbrella Chronicles was supported because of a promise of a real RE game if fans bought it. THe second game would not exist at all had it not gotten good sales on Wii.. How does the sales of a rail shooter on one console prove other console that didnt have rail shooters is where the money is?Looking over your preevious post I can only say you are a moron with no understanding of the subject you are trying to argue


Don't bother with him, he has mastered the art of mental gymnastics. Reasoning with logic just won't work. He has convince himself that the wii u is not a next gen console and the xbox 720/ps4 will blow it out of the water. Best thing to do is just to ignore and engage with more fruitful discussions with other members.



Bet with ninjablade:

Ninjablade wins if the next 5 multiplat on the wii u are inferior to the 360 version.

I win if one of the 5 mulitplats are on par or superior on the Wii U.

Aielyn said:
Mazty said:
But then again, maybe everyone in a multibillion dollar industry has it wrong and a random wii u owner on a forum has it right....

I don't own a Wii U, so I don't know who you're talking about.


Sorry, some random wii owner who thinks he can compare the Wii to the Wii U. FYI they aren't the same in anyway other then similarity in name. Maybe that is where you have gone wrong?