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Forums - Politics Discussion - How to Destroy an Athiests in a argument! (Updated with poll)

 

Who won?

The Athiest 40 70.18%
 
The creationist 17 29.82%
 
Total:57
Alara317 on 18 December 2012
KungKras said:
Alara317 said:
KungKras said:
Alara317 said:

Ladies and gentlemen, this is why I don't argue with religious folks.  

Yet you argued with him before you stopped :P

I know, I'm so goddamn ashamed, too.  I made it clear I don't like debating religion becuase people can't do what it takes to make religion a legitimate debate topic and are unable to even try to rationalize their standpoint, yet all that did was open myself up to people trying and failing to find fault in my arguments.  

I understand why though. It's so hard to just leave these things be xD

It's an insult to my intelligence.  Even if they are completely off the mark, failing to use the slightest bit of logic and making wild claims and accusations without substantial proof to back it up...I still feel the need to defend my point of view even though I really shouldn't have to.  It's just that ego that gets in the way.  

They say the more you know, the more ignorant you feel, and that's kind of why I feel I have so much to learn, and why I feel the need to defend myself.  See, I've done plenty of learning in my life, and I KNOW that science doesn't have all the answers, and I don't even know everything that the institution of science has been able to teach me, but what I do know is that science is a great way to learn more about the world around you, and if something I believe to be true now is disproven, then like the intelligent person I am, I will factor in the new evidence into what is accepted as truth.  

Religion doesn't do this.  Far as the religious are concerned, they already know the truth and won't bend from that no matter how much evidence is presented to counter their argument.  The arguments the religious people on this site (and the world over) are resorting to in an attempt to defend their faith is flat out pathetic and an insult to the institution of scientific advancement.  The philisophical debates passed as facts and truths combined with the arguing over semantics (what is atheism?  what is faith?  what is belief?) as well as the insistence that just becuase a book SAYS something means it's true is saddening.  It's planting a seed of doubt that doesn't need to be there.  All that needs to be there is healthy skepticism both for religion and science, equally so.  the difference is that science has a mountain of evidence supporting its claims, and religion has nothing but a pile of what-ifs masquerading as truths.  

The very fact that people believe in God, that they follow a religion, despite there being absolutely no evidence backing up either idea or faith beyond a powerdul need to have hope and faith saddens me and can only hold us back as a population.  Religion and science don't need to be mutually exclusive, but the idea that entire masses of people beleive something despite a saddening lack of evidence is certainly not helping us advance at all.  There may have been a time when Religion helped us all band together and form societies, but that time has long passed, and it's time to stop believing in Santa Claus and grow up. 



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DaRev on 18 December 2012
dsgrue3 said:
DaRev said:

I wish him luck trying to figure this stuff out - dude looks like he's 90. He will die 100 times over, generations come and gone before he figures out anything other than light crashes into itself lol. Good luck with that. Thanks, but no thanks, until Scienece figures out the Universe I'll read my Bible, and die with Science and Faith.

 

Question, he mentioned the Universe expanding, and the possibility of other Universes expaning as well - but what are these Universes expanining into, i.e. what is outside of our Universe? By the way where did these Crystal and exploding Light particles come from? Possibly that unknown void that our Universes are expanding into?


Everything you're asking is untestable. The expansion of the Universe is a rate that exceeds the speed of light. The higgs boson confirms our Standard Model of particle physics. The higgs boson was only theorized prior to such a finding.

Question, have you taken any physics or biology courses at the college level?

Funny how you can accept certain things that are "untestable" like what's outside our universe, but at the same time reject certain things that "untestable" like God. Funny, doesn't it mean then that you need FAITH to believe what these Scientists are saying about the God Particle (lol that must be very offensive term to some).

I mean you can't test it, but believe in it?  What if this dude came out tomorrow and tells you he not only found the God Particle (love that name) but he actually found God,   - what then? What if this dude come out and tells you he found the Heavn Particle outside of the untestable space that our untestable but acceptable Universe(s), all 6 of them, are expanding into - what then? You guys must have FAITH as big as Christians

Anyways, nope never did physics or biology - why? Have you taken religious classes at college?



Nintendo Network ID: DaRevren

I love My Wii U, and the potential it brings to gaming.

spaceguy on 18 December 2012
DaRev said:
spaceguy said:
DaRev said:
Torillian said:
DaRev said:

Nothing, you can see happended by chance. The whole of creation fits together to perfectly to be by chance, for even if Big Bang was by chance, that would also have to mean that everything after were also by chance. And that is higly rediculous. So Big Bang made you have 2 legs instead of 9? Why do women always only have two breasts - is that by chance or by design? Why is water clear, and not pink - is that by chance as well?

Or, are you assuming that Big Bang happened by chance, but everything after that is not by chance or not randum?

The more you continue, the more I realise how flawed Sciece really is I mean seriously, Science tries to prove everything, the problem with that is it is IMPOSSIBLE to prove everything. At some point you must apply FAITH and plain old fashioned belief = that's part of what I mean by Science pointing to a Creator. Science proves that everything is by design and not radom.

This is really a terrible argument.  Yes, everything you just said happened by chance and if water were pink, women had 5 tits, and you walked on 7 legs you'd be talking about how the world was perfect and how the big bang could have made water pink, wonderfully 5 breasted women, and the perfect number of legs.  In order for your argument to make any sense you would have to prove that the current existence is the best it possibly could be and was therefore "perfect" and I find that a hard pill to swallow when you really look at the world.  

dude, don't worry, one of these days Big Bang will Bang again and give us three breasted women, and a "perfect" world. But since its all supposedly happended by chance we really can't be sure, so let's keep our finger crossed as we could end up with no breasted women, or even dicks for breasts  

Thank God I believe in intelligent design.

You do know we found A higgs boson partical don't you?  Just watch.

I wish him luck trying to figure this stuff out - dude looks like he's 90. He will die 100 times over, generations come and gone before he figures out anything other than light crashes into itself lol. Good luck with that. Thanks, but no thanks, until Scienece figures out the Universe I'll read my Bible, and die with Science and Faith.

 

Question, he mentioned the Universe expanding, and the possibility of other Universes expaning as well - but what are these Universes expanining into, i.e. what is outside of our Universe? By the way where did these Crystal and exploding Light particles come from? Possibly that unknown void that our Universes are expanding into?



Look I'm not going to teach a class. There is all that info you just questioned out there. Watch the science channel. i don't know what to tell you. Oh also Michio Kaku is a string thoerists and is very well respected. Have fun with no knowledge and a book that is  joke trying make since out of. Everything said  can mean many different things. You seem to not understand that it was meant to be written that way.

I was a christian when I was young, I grew up an got smarter. Logic starting playing a role in my life and lieing to myself everyday about a false god was not helping.



spaceguy on 18 December 2012
Player1x3 said:
KungKras said:
Player1x3 said:
dsgrue3 said:
Player1x3 said:
Ugh, and you yet again miss the point. I wasn't pointing out how many people atheism killed (atheism AS WELL AS CHRISTIANITY does not promote murder), but how many people have atheist leaders and regimes have killed. And you cant possibly be that naive to think that only 1200 people were killed out of religious reasons, can you now? 

Yes, because Hitler killed Jews because of atheism. In what world is that a sensible conclusion? Why didn't he kill every single theist then? Why did he persecute the Jewish faith? Why just one?

You might as well be saying "Hitler had a moustache" and then proceed to tell me how many people died from leaders with moustaches. I hope you see how laughably absurd your logic is.


You're getting desperate. Please just hop off my ass already. I didnt say Hitler killed in the name of atheism. I said, he was an atheist leader who killed millions of people as a response to a guy who said ''you'd never have to fear an atheist ruler'' Well, history proves that statement to be laughable. 

And btw, Hitler might be one of the very few atheist leaders that actually didnt kill in the name of a(theism)nti theism...pretty much everyone else did

Except that wasn't the original statment at all. The original statement was that atheists don't kill one another over religious differences. If you want to debate that, go ahead, that would be fun.

Also, there is no logical pathway from atheism that leads to killing people, but there is a logical pathway from religion (IE God told me to kill these people).

The original statement was (the one i was quoting) was the you shouldnt fear atheists because they dont kill people. And i proved that they do kill, especially over religious differences. I mean Hitler killed people because they were Jews, Stalin and the others killed them for not being atheists/being theists. And I dont want to debate something that is already widely accepted in historic community. 

Hitler was not a athiests. He believed in a supreme race that was choosen by god. Just cause he didn't use christianity as his main platform, does not mean he was not religious. This is like saying Osama bin laden was a athiests. You are clearly lost and need a history lesson.



spaceguy on 18 December 2012
DaRev said:
dsgrue3 said:
DaRev said:

I wish him luck trying to figure this stuff out - dude looks like he's 90. He will die 100 times over, generations come and gone before he figures out anything other than light crashes into itself lol. Good luck with that. Thanks, but no thanks, until Scienece figures out the Universe I'll read my Bible, and die with Science and Faith.

 

Question, he mentioned the Universe expanding, and the possibility of other Universes expaning as well - but what are these Universes expanining into, i.e. what is outside of our Universe? By the way where did these Crystal and exploding Light particles come from? Possibly that unknown void that our Universes are expanding into?


Everything you're asking is untestable. The expansion of the Universe is a rate that exceeds the speed of light. The higgs boson confirms our Standard Model of particle physics. The higgs boson was only theorized prior to such a finding.

Question, have you taken any physics or biology courses at the college level?

Funny how you can accept certain things that are "untestable" like what's outside our universe, but at the same time reject certain things that "untestable" like God. Funny, doesn't it mean then that you need FAITH to believe what these Scientists are saying about the God Particle (lol that must be very offensive term to some).

I mean you can't test it, but believe in it?  What if this dude came out tomorrow and tells you he not only found the God Particle (love that name) but he actually found God,   - what then? What if this dude come out and tells you he found the Heavn Particle outside of the untestable space that our untestable but acceptable Universe(s), all 6 of them, are expanding into - what then? You guys must have FAITH as big as Christians

Anyways, nope never did physics or biology - why? Have you taken religious classes at college?

There is the particle.

 WHERE IS YOUR PROOF? YOU ACT LIKE WE DO NOT HAVE ANY

THE PICTURE BELOW IS THE PROOF. WTF!!!! LOL  
 

So basically your saying, hey I read fantasy but all that math stuff and intelligent stuff is for losers???? If you believe that. I got a bridge for sale in brooklyn.

Please take everything in your house and throw it away cause science did that.



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DaRev on 18 December 2012
spaceguy said:
DaRev said:
spaceguy said:
DaRev said:
Torillian said:
DaRev said:

Nothing, you can see happended by chance. The whole of creation fits together to perfectly to be by chance, for even if Big Bang was by chance, that would also have to mean that everything after were also by chance. And that is higly rediculous. So Big Bang made you have 2 legs instead of 9? Why do women always only have two breasts - is that by chance or by design? Why is water clear, and not pink - is that by chance as well?

Or, are you assuming that Big Bang happened by chance, but everything after that is not by chance or not randum?

The more you continue, the more I realise how flawed Sciece really is I mean seriously, Science tries to prove everything, the problem with that is it is IMPOSSIBLE to prove everything. At some point you must apply FAITH and plain old fashioned belief = that's part of what I mean by Science pointing to a Creator. Science proves that everything is by design and not radom.

This is really a terrible argument.  Yes, everything you just said happened by chance and if water were pink, women had 5 tits, and you walked on 7 legs you'd be talking about how the world was perfect and how the big bang could have made water pink, wonderfully 5 breasted women, and the perfect number of legs.  In order for your argument to make any sense you would have to prove that the current existence is the best it possibly could be and was therefore "perfect" and I find that a hard pill to swallow when you really look at the world.  

dude, don't worry, one of these days Big Bang will Bang again and give us three breasted women, and a "perfect" world. But since its all supposedly happended by chance we really can't be sure, so let's keep our finger crossed as we could end up with no breasted women, or even dicks for breasts  

Thank God I believe in intelligent design.

You do know we found A higgs boson partical don't you?  Just watch.

I wish him luck trying to figure this stuff out - dude looks like he's 90. He will die 100 times over, generations come and gone before he figures out anything other than light crashes into itself lol. Good luck with that. Thanks, but no thanks, until Scienece figures out the Universe I'll read my Bible, and die with Science and Faith.

 

Question, he mentioned the Universe expanding, and the possibility of other Universes expaning as well - but what are these Universes expanining into, i.e. what is outside of our Universe? By the way where did these Crystal and exploding Light particles come from? Possibly that unknown void that our Universes are expanding into?



Look I'm not going to teach a class. There is all that info you just questioned out there. Watch the science channel. i don't know what to tell you. Oh also Michio Kaku is a string thoerists and is very well respected. Have fun with no knowledge and a book that is  joke trying make since out of. Everything said  can mean many different things. You seem to not understand that it was meant to be written that way.

I was a christian when I was young, I grew up an got smarter. Logic starting playing a role in my life and lieing to myself everyday about a false god was not helping.


I was [not] a christian when I was young, I grew up an got smarter. Logic starting playing a role in my life and lieing to myself everyday about a false god[s and junk science] was not helping [so I became a Christian].



Nintendo Network ID: DaRevren

I love My Wii U, and the potential it brings to gaming.

DaRev on 18 December 2012
spaceguy said:
DaRev said:
dsgrue3 said:


Everything you're asking is untestable. The expansion of the Universe is a rate that exceeds the speed of light. The higgs boson confirms our Standard Model of particle physics. The higgs boson was only theorized prior to such a finding.

Question, have you taken any physics or biology courses at the college level?

Funny how you can accept certain things that are "untestable" like what's outside our universe, but at the same time reject certain things that "untestable" like God. Funny, doesn't it mean then that you need FAITH to believe what these Scientists are saying about the God Particle (lol that must be very offensive term to some).

I mean you can't test it, but believe in it?  What if this dude came out tomorrow and tells you he not only found the God Particle (love that name) but he actually found God,   - what then? What if this dude come out and tells you he found the Heavn Particle outside of the untestable space that our untestable but acceptable Universe(s), all 6 of them, are expanding into - what then? You guys must have FAITH as big as Christians

Anyways, nope never did physics or biology - why? Have you taken religious classes at college?

There is the particle.

 WHERE IS YOUR PROOF? YOU ACT LIKE WE DO NOT HAVE ANY

THE PICTURE BELOW IS THE PROOF. WTF!!!! LOL  
 

So basically your saying, hey I read fantasy but all that math stuff and intelligent stuff is for losers???? If you believe that. I got a bridge for sale in brooklyn.

Please take everything in your house and throw it away cause science did that.

Genesis 1

American Standard Version (ASV)

1  In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

 

Congratulations in catching up to the bible, it's only taken Science thousands of years. Sadly, i can't wait for science to figure out this universe we live in, so i'll take the condensed unscientific version that's in the bible and die happy. ha ha "God Particle", it's about dam time.



Nintendo Network ID: DaRevren

I love My Wii U, and the potential it brings to gaming.

Alara317 on 19 December 2012
DaRev said:

I was [not] a christian when I was young, I grew up an got smarter. Logic starting playing a role in my life and lieing to myself everyday about a false god[s and junk science] was not helping [so I became a Christian].

You're absolutely terrible at this.  can you please stop?  



Jay520 on 19 December 2012
DaRev said:

Funny how you can accept certain things that are "untestable" like what's outside our universe, but at the same time reject certain things that "untestable" like God. Funny, doesn't it mean then that you need FAITH to believe what these Scientists are saying about the God Particle (lol that must be very offensive term to some).

I mean you can't test it, but believe in it?  What if this dude came out tomorrow and tells you he not only found the God Particle (love that name) but he actually found God,   - what then? What if this dude come out and tells you he found the Heavn Particle outside of the untestable space that our untestable but acceptable Universe(s), all 6 of them, are expanding into - what then? You guys must have FAITH as big as Christians

Anyways, nope never did physics or biology - why? Have you taken religious classes at college?


DaRev, why are you ignoring me? You still haven't responded to this:

DaRev said:

To answer your question is simple - I believe in one god because the written source of my belief in a Creator aka the Bible, says there is only one God. But practically, the other two major religions (Jews and Muslims) also believe in one God.

 

You just ignored a giant piece of text. Here, I'll post it again:

No, you don't have to apply faith at all. Science theorizes on how the universe formed. It doesn't attempt to explain why it formed, or what happened before it formed (if such a time even existed). There's a big difference between science and religion here. When encountered with a question that's currently impossible to know (for example: why the universe exists), science doesn't make any blind guesses just for the sake of having an answer. Science admits it doesn't have the answer and works towards finding an answer. Science doesn't even claim that there is no God (well, for certain Gods, it does). It makes no claims on the matter whatsoever. So where is the faith?

On the other hand, certain religions make all types of assumptions about why the universe was formed, what/who existed before the universe formed, the existence of a creator, etc. Not only does it assume a creator, but it also assumes very specific traits for that creator. Clearly, making assumptions requires a lot more faith than admitting that the answer currently isn't available.

As for your answer, I will respond with a few questions. Firstly, what makes the Bible accurate? Secondly, what do other religions have to do with validating your beliefs? If you're a Christian, then you don't agree with their texts to begin with, so how do they support your claim? Moreover, what does being "major" have to do with being correct? Popularity is not an indicator of accuracy.

 



kappie1977 on 19 December 2012

great one