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Forums - Politics Discussion - Catalonian Independence?

Mr Khan on 26 November 2012

By god i love the community on here. Where else would we find discussions like this?



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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Nem on 26 November 2012
Kynes said:
Nem said:
Spain as a country never made sense to me. Theres far too many different people with their own language that are amalgamed in that. It would be best for everyone if whoever doesnt want to stay leaves. That way we definitly wont have any more bombing about it.


It's funny that the oldest country in modern Europe never made sense to you. Switzerland has 4 official languages, UK has how many, four? how many official languages have China or India? And I tell you, so what? In a political era of integration in supranational entities, there are small minded people wanting to fracture and create problems where there weren't, so they can completely control the society.

What we are seeing here is a political party trying to hide their incompetence and the corruption behind the independence, so this way almost no one talks about their mismanagement of the government.


Wrong, Portugal is the oldest country in "modern" Europe (wich by they way, Spain/the kingdom of castella tried to conquer aswell but failed). It doesnt make sense cause its not a union, its a bunch of kingdoms that were conquered and subdued. They still have their own culture, so they should be allowed to express it the way they want. Were past the age of forceful conquer and palacian coupes. Its the era of freedom, and  (the)"people" should be free to decide what they want to do.



mai on 26 November 2012

Kynes said:

The treaties clearly say that if a part of a country that belongs to the union secedes, that part is the only one that goes outside the union, and it has to abide to the whole adhesion process, a process that needs the approval of all the union members. The rest of the country still belongs to the union.

Good for Catalonia then, I guess. Looking back to Greece situation last year, when they had a chance to vote "no" to EU aid deal > declare default > out of eurozone -- Catalonia might just go that route the easy way through secession. That's not really about getting rid of fiscal problems (it probably have them more than enough on their own), but about getting rid from EU bankers dictate and eventually devaluation. You obviously cannot devalue Greek, Spanish or Catalonian euro not doing the same for German euro, that's just pointless, the whole idea is to devalue Catalonian currency whatever it might be against euro.

Realistically not gonna happen though, political decision in Europe are made somewhere else rather than Catalonia. Germans just won't it go away that easily, understanding that it might result in domino effect.



Mr Khan on 26 November 2012
Nem said:
Kynes said:
Nem said:
Spain as a country never made sense to me. Theres far too many different people with their own language that are amalgamed in that. It would be best for everyone if whoever doesnt want to stay leaves. That way we definitly wont have any more bombing about it.


It's funny that the oldest country in modern Europe never made sense to you. Switzerland has 4 official languages, UK has how many, four? how many official languages have China or India? And I tell you, so what? In a political era of integration in supranational entities, there are small minded people wanting to fracture and create problems where there weren't, so they can completely control the society.

What we are seeing here is a political party trying to hide their incompetence and the corruption behind the independence, so this way almost no one talks about their mismanagement of the government.


Wrong, Portugal is the oldest country in "modern" Europe (wich by they way, Spain/the kingdom of castella tried to conquer aswell but failed). It doesnt make sense cause its not a union, its a bunch of kingdoms that were conquered and subdued. They still have their own culture, so they should be allowed to express it the way they want. Were past the age of forceful conquer and palacian coupes. Its the era of freedom, and  (the)"people" should be free to decide what they want to do.

To my knowledge, they succeeded between 1560 and 1640, administering Portugal and their holdings as part of "The Spains," and losing it in the latter days of the 30 years war.

The oldest country in Europe by far is France, dating from 843 AD. Spain is second (1479), Portugal third (1640), Switzerland fourth (1648) and the United Kingdom fifth (1707)

Napoleon helped mess with a bit of it, breaking the independence streaks of Andorra, Liechtenstein, San Marino, and the Netherlands.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

justinian on 26 November 2012
Mr Khan said:
Nem said:
Kynes said:
Nem said:
Spain as a country never made sense to me. Theres far too many different people with their own language that are amalgamed in that. It would be best for everyone if whoever doesnt want to stay leaves. That way we definitly wont have any more bombing about it.


It's funny that the oldest country in modern Europe never made sense to you. Switzerland has 4 official languages, UK has how many, four? how many official languages have China or India? And I tell you, so what? In a political era of integration in supranational entities, there are small minded people wanting to fracture and create problems where there weren't, so they can completely control the society.

What we are seeing here is a political party trying to hide their incompetence and the corruption behind the independence, so this way almost no one talks about their mismanagement of the government.


Wrong, Portugal is the oldest country in "modern" Europe (wich by they way, Spain/the kingdom of castella tried to conquer aswell but failed). It doesnt make sense cause its not a union, its a bunch of kingdoms that were conquered and subdued. They still have their own culture, so they should be allowed to express it the way they want. Were past the age of forceful conquer and palacian coupes. Its the era of freedom, and  (the)"people" should be free to decide what they want to do.

To my knowledge, they succeeded between 1560 and 1640, administering Portugal and their holdings as part of "The Spains," and losing it in the latter days of the 30 years war.

The oldest country in Europe by far is France, dating from 843 AD. Spain is second (1479), Portugal third (1640), Switzerland fourth (1648) and the United Kingdom fifth (1707)

Napoleon helped mess with a bit of it, breaking the independence streaks of Andorra, Liechtenstein, San Marino, and the Netherlands.


I am no expert but what about the Scandanavin countries? Denmark was an established country in the 700s before it went on to rule much of europe including England... or so i was led to believe anyway.



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JEMC on 26 November 2012
Kynes said:
JEMC said:

And as I said, any estatuto is a law. It's simple as that. Were the ones that made it idiots? So what, the problem is that unless you change the law you are forced to accept it and act by it.


Then we have a problem, as we can't provide everything every estatuto asks for. Are you really asking the bolded part? I don't think they are idiots, I think they are politicians, they ignore the reality and they try to mold it to their convenience. We have a stalemate situation, there is no political party that will explain that the estatutos are absurd taken all as an unity (maybe UPyD) so the main political parties will try to ignore them as they can't revoke them. The constitutional tribunal should have revoked the economic clauses, but they decided to pass everyone due to political reasons, and we are now in a lose-lose situation.

@bolded: True. It's a shame we can't get rid off them .



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

justinian on 26 November 2012

It always happens. In tough economic times people always want to protect "their own".

In a few years I expect the same in the US with the red and blue states, although religion will also play a major part in this.



JEMC on 26 November 2012
justinian said:
It always happens. In tough economic times people always want to protect "their own".

In a few years I expect the same in the US with the red and blue states, although religion will also play a major part in this.

I do really hope that religion doesn't become a reason for that.

People do atrocities in the name of religion.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

Mr Khan on 26 November 2012
justinian said:
Mr Khan said:
Nem said:
Kynes said:
Nem said:
Spain as a country never made sense to me. Theres far too many different people with their own language that are amalgamed in that. It would be best for everyone if whoever doesnt want to stay leaves. That way we definitly wont have any more bombing about it.


It's funny that the oldest country in modern Europe never made sense to you. Switzerland has 4 official languages, UK has how many, four? how many official languages have China or India? And I tell you, so what? In a political era of integration in supranational entities, there are small minded people wanting to fracture and create problems where there weren't, so they can completely control the society.

What we are seeing here is a political party trying to hide their incompetence and the corruption behind the independence, so this way almost no one talks about their mismanagement of the government.


Wrong, Portugal is the oldest country in "modern" Europe (wich by they way, Spain/the kingdom of castella tried to conquer aswell but failed). It doesnt make sense cause its not a union, its a bunch of kingdoms that were conquered and subdued. They still have their own culture, so they should be allowed to express it the way they want. Were past the age of forceful conquer and palacian coupes. Its the era of freedom, and  (the)"people" should be free to decide what they want to do.

To my knowledge, they succeeded between 1560 and 1640, administering Portugal and their holdings as part of "The Spains," and losing it in the latter days of the 30 years war.

The oldest country in Europe by far is France, dating from 843 AD. Spain is second (1479), Portugal third (1640), Switzerland fourth (1648) and the United Kingdom fifth (1707)

Napoleon helped mess with a bit of it, breaking the independence streaks of Andorra, Liechtenstein, San Marino, and the Netherlands.


I am no expert but what about the Scandanavin countries? Denmark was an established country in the 700s before it went on to rule much of europe including England... or so i was led to believe anyway.

The United Kingdom of Denmark-Norway, which was broken up by the Congress of Vienna at the end of the Napoleonic Wars. Norway then transferred to Sweden to form the United Kingdom of Sweden-Norway, which ended, i think, 1906.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

mai on 26 November 2012
justinian said:
It always happens. In tough economic times people always want to protect "their own".

In a few years I expect the same in the US with the red and blue states, although religion will also play a major part in this.

The major difference between the US and Europe situation is the former is printing money how much they want, endlessly refunding debt and lowering rate, and they get away with that, while Europe is imposing various austerity programs on people and trying to dodge debt problems of it's members forcing aid programs on them. Why is that? Probably because US could afford that, while Europe is petty pygmy from political standpoint = there's no country behind the euro.

So I could agree about Europe's future more or less, but I'm not convinced about red and blue states (just don't take recent secession petitions seriously as well as entire American electorate).

UPD: On a side note, must admit I love the song :D