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Forums - Politics Discussion - Catalonian Independence?

Player2 on 26 November 2012
Scisca said:
 

On topic: I hope they wait a bit with this whole independence stuff. And I wonder how they are going to distribute citisenship. My girlfriend moves to Barcelona next summer, I hope to join her some time later and it would be cool to get a nationality for being residents over there, haha. After all, Los Polacos have to support each other! And I've even started learning Catalan... So guys, just wait for me to move there and you can hit it!

Before anybody jump on conclusions, I've checked his profile and it looks like he's polish.



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Kynes on 26 November 2012

It's a lame joke we have in Spain. It's a nickname given to the catalan speakers, as "it sounds like they are talking polish" due to the differences in pronunciation. That's why he says Polish have to support each other.



Mr Khan on 26 November 2012
Scisca said:
Mr Khan said:
Nem said:
Mr Khan said:
 

To my knowledge, they succeeded between 1560 and 1640, administering Portugal and their holdings as part of "The Spains," and losing it in the latter days of the 30 years war.

The oldest country in Europe by far is France, dating from 843 AD. Spain is second (1479), Portugal third (1640), Switzerland fourth (1648) and the United Kingdom fifth (1707)

Napoleon helped mess with a bit of it, breaking the independence streaks of Andorra, Liechtenstein, San Marino, and the Netherlands.

I dont know about France but Portugal become a Kingdom officially recognised by the church on 1179. By then Spain was about 3 or 4 different kingdoms. The date you have was when Portugal became independant from Spain after Spain took over with a royal marriage (most probably).

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independ%C3%AAncia_de_Portugal

"Em 1179 o papa Alexandre III, através da Bula Manifestis Probatum, confirma e reconhece a Portugal como país independente e soberano protegido pela Igreja Católica."

That quote means the Pope Alexander the 3rd confirmed and recognised Portugal as an independant and soberane country under protection of the catholic church in 1179.

 

This obviously makes me doubt your other dates. And in case you pretend to question the validity of the source, i know that is correct as i am portuguese and learned these things in school. I cant exactly link a history book.

I count it as the royal marriage meaning that Portugal ceased to exist in 1560, so the first Portuguese Kingdom ran from 1179 to 1560, then resumed being a country in 1640. Just like how the Netherlands stopped being a country when Napoleonic France took it over sometime before 1800, then resumed being a country in 1815.

It's all about sovereignty. Portugal lost it, like other European countries did.

France lost it in 1940 as well... If you say Napoleon stopped your timer for some countries, you should count Hitler in as well.

 

On topic: I hope they wait a bit with this whole independence stuff. And I wonder how they are going to distribute citisenship. My girlfriend moves to Barcelona next summer, I hope to join her some time later and it would be cool to get a nationality for being residents over there, haha. After all, Los Polacos have to support each other! And I've even started learning Catalan... So guys, just wait for me to move there and you can hit it!

Occupations don't count. It's complicated...



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Player2 on 26 November 2012
Kynes said:
It's a lame joke we have in Spain. It's a nickname given to the catalan speakers, as "it sounds like they are talking polish" due to the differences in pronunciation. That's why he says Polish have to support each other.

I know, I'm stating that he is polish (he never said it in his post) to avoid any confusion so people doesn't take it as an insult.



Kasz216 on 27 November 2012
Mr Khan said:
Scisca said:
Mr Khan said:
Nem said:
Mr Khan said:
 

To my knowledge, they succeeded between 1560 and 1640, administering Portugal and their holdings as part of "The Spains," and losing it in the latter days of the 30 years war.

The oldest country in Europe by far is France, dating from 843 AD. Spain is second (1479), Portugal third (1640), Switzerland fourth (1648) and the United Kingdom fifth (1707)

Napoleon helped mess with a bit of it, breaking the independence streaks of Andorra, Liechtenstein, San Marino, and the Netherlands.

I dont know about France but Portugal become a Kingdom officially recognised by the church on 1179. By then Spain was about 3 or 4 different kingdoms. The date you have was when Portugal became independant from Spain after Spain took over with a royal marriage (most probably).

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independ%C3%AAncia_de_Portugal

"Em 1179 o papa Alexandre III, através da Bula Manifestis Probatum, confirma e reconhece a Portugal como país independente e soberano protegido pela Igreja Católica."

That quote means the Pope Alexander the 3rd confirmed and recognised Portugal as an independant and soberane country under protection of the catholic church in 1179.

 

This obviously makes me doubt your other dates. And in case you pretend to question the validity of the source, i know that is correct as i am portuguese and learned these things in school. I cant exactly link a history book.

I count it as the royal marriage meaning that Portugal ceased to exist in 1560, so the first Portuguese Kingdom ran from 1179 to 1560, then resumed being a country in 1640. Just like how the Netherlands stopped being a country when Napoleonic France took it over sometime before 1800, then resumed being a country in 1815.

It's all about sovereignty. Portugal lost it, like other European countries did.

France lost it in 1940 as well... If you say Napoleon stopped your timer for some countries, you should count Hitler in as well.

 

On topic: I hope they wait a bit with this whole independence stuff. And I wonder how they are going to distribute citisenship. My girlfriend moves to Barcelona next summer, I hope to join her some time later and it would be cool to get a nationality for being residents over there, haha. After all, Los Polacos have to support each other! And I've even started learning Catalan... So guys, just wait for me to move there and you can hit it!

Occupations don't count. It's complicated...

Well... and France wasn't completely occupied.

Woo boy that makes the Holy Roman Empire one crazy kingdom creator and remover though.



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Nem on 28 November 2012
Kynes said:
Nem said:
Mr Khan said:
...

I count it as the royal marriage meaning that Portugal ceased to exist in 1560, so the first Portuguese Kingdom ran from 1179 to 1560, then resumed being a country in 1640. Just like how the Netherlands stopped being a country when Napoleonic France took it over sometime before 1800, then resumed being a country in 1815.

It's all about sovereignty. Portugal lost it, like other European countries did.


If that was the case, France ceased to exist from 1789 when the monarchy was overthrown and 1792 when a republic was founded.

I am looking into the status of Portugal under spanish occupation. Will get back to you.


Come on, so now a marriage is called an occupation? Now I see why you don't understand Spain as a country, you have some type of inferiority complex.


Why should i have an inferiority complex? We kicked their butt.

I have looked up the story. Its here in Portuguese: Portugal was considered still an independant country after proclaiming Phillip the 2nd of Spain has king of Portugal Phillip the 1st for Portugal. A viceroy ruled the country in his absense. Eventually we kicked them out completely.

http://www.eps-jose-falcao.rcts.pt/historia/dinast2.html

So, the date that has Portugal has 1400's is completely wrong Mr Khan. Portugal never stopped beeing its own independant country.