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Forums - Politics Discussion - What can be done with Isreal? Realistically!

KungKras said:

Am I the only one who thinks it's hilarious that Hamas and Israel are badmouthing each other on twitter?

I mean what if twitter had existed during WWII. Imagine a flamewar between Hitler and Stalin xD

It is pretty hilarious. You'd think one side or the other would think the situation demands more gravitas



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I think we should sanction Israel just like we did to Iran, and we should do that until they negotiate some sort of peace deal. The relationship between Israel and Palestine clearly hasn't worked since Israel formed in 1948! It's time for a two country system, and the time is now.

Under no circumstances, is what Israel doing in Gaza and the West Bank is right, you would think the world would of learnt it's lesson from the holocaust, but let the same sort of mistreatment to a group of people occurs now.

America, especially need to wake up and do something about this



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MrBubbles said:
Rath said:
MrBubbles said:
they arent a state so it doesnt matter if someone or a group of people says they are.

even making comparisons to the nazis here is disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself.


I feel the Nazi comparison is going too far (afterall Israel has no inclination towards genocide). However I do personally find it sad that a state that was founded after such terrible treatment of their own people is now treating another people so poorly.


its not as if the israelis caused the mess.  there would have been a state of palestine were it not for the arab governments who wanted neither a palestine or israel.  (especially sad when jordan used to be part of the mandate of palestine)

its not like many of the people who left were even in the country for a long time.   it was a fairly small population in the area until the rise of the zionist movement who developed the swamps and deserts making the land prosperous, creating mass immigration from neighbouring countries.

It's not just Israel that caused the mess, but they played a part. They also are playing a part in stopping the mess from being cleaned up.



the2real4mafol said:
I think we should sanction Israel just like we did to Iran, and we should do that until they negotiate some sort of peace deal. The relationship between Israel and Palestine clearly hasn't worked since Israel formed in 1948! It's time for a two country system, and the time is now.

Under no circumstances, is what Israel doing in Gaza and the West Bank is right, you would think the world would of learnt it's lesson from the holocaust, but let the same sort of mistreatment to a group of people occurs now.

America, especially need to wake up and do something about this


(entire post struck. Inappropriate dude!)

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what can be done?

nothing,there will be a war one day



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Mr Khan said:
ArnoldRimmer said:

Until the USA steps back from their blindfolded support for Israel, nothing will ever happen. The good news is that this just a matter of time.

What I find absolutely hilarious by the way is when people claim that the palestinians shouldn't go to the UN to ask for statehood recognition, because the only acceptable way for the palestinians to get their own state is through direct negotiations with Israel. Whoever says something like that is either a complete idiot parroting some crap he's heard on TV or simply trying to fool complete idiots.

Israel has no intention whatsoever to give the palestinians their own state. Why should they?!? Apart from gaining popularity, there's just no advantage for them.

Israel's ruling party even explicitly states in their party program the aim of preventing the establishment of a palestinian state.

So telling  the palestinians that direct negotiations with Israel is the only acceptable option is as ridiculous as telling the jews in warshaw ghetto that direct negotiations with the Nazis is the only acceptable option to improve their situation.

Btw, I wonder if the current tensions between the palestinians and Israel might indeed have to do with the palestinians going to the UN. It seems that Netanyahu and Co. are seriously afraid of them doing so.

They're afraid Because they know that in any straight, up-down General Assembly vote, Palestine will win 100% of the time, because as far as the majority of countries (being ex-colonial or otherwise having a history of western exploitation) are concerned, Palestine is just trying to get their fair share. It's only America in the Security Council that will stop them from gaining full international recognition (Britain and France could be convinced).

Kind of makes you think, after all that bitching we do about Chinese and Russian obstructionism in the Security Council.

Eh, it's less "Fair Share" more "The US supports Israel."

If the US didn't support Israel... like say this exact situation happened elsewhere, practically no country would support Palestine because they would see it as a legitamization of "seperatists".  It's the same reason countries like... Spain don't recognize Kosovo.

Most of the world supports Palsestine because the United States supports Israel, there is in general a large alliance of countries that vote the opposite of the US  on every measure from Israel to global kitten appreciation day.

 

Now Europe.  Europe's backing off of Israel is actually a pretty interesting long term political development that began with a strange marriage of the Europeon Leftwing(more radical aprts) and Muslim Immigrants.  The Leftwing pretty much ignoring some of the more problematic issues from the immigration such as woman's rights for the voter support.



MrBubbles; so the holocaust excuses everything Israel does to someone else? That's an old and weak argument.



Kasz216 said:

Eh, it's less "Fair Share" more "The US supports Israel."

If the US didn't support Israel... like say this exact situation happened elsewhere, practically no country would support Palestine because they would see it as a legitamization of "seperatists".  It's the same reason countries like... Spain don't recognize Kosovo.

Most of the world supports Palsestine because the United States supports Israel, there is in general a large alliance of countries that vote the opposite of the US  on every measure from Israel to global kitten appreciation day.

 

Now Europe.  Europe's backing off of Israel is actually a pretty interesting long term political development that began with a strange marriage of the Europeon Leftwing and Muslim Immigrants.  The Leftwing pretty much ignoring some of the more problematic issues from the immigration such as woman's rights for the voter support.

It's a different case with Palestine actually. They aren't seperatists so much as an occupied people - no state claims that Palestine is a sovereign part of Israel. As such countries that are afraid of the idea of seperatism such as China, Russia or Spain can feel much more comfortable about a Palestinian state.



Rath said:
MrBubbles said:
Rath said:
MrBubbles said:
they arent a state so it doesnt matter if someone or a group of people says they are.

even making comparisons to the nazis here is disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself.


I feel the Nazi comparison is going too far (afterall Israel has no inclination towards genocide). However I do personally find it sad that a state that was founded after such terrible treatment of their own people is now treating another people so poorly.


its not as if the israelis caused the mess.  there would have been a state of palestine were it not for the arab governments who wanted neither a palestine or israel.  (especially sad when jordan used to be part of the mandate of palestine)

its not like many of the people who left were even in the country for a long time.   it was a fairly small population in the area until the rise of the zionist movement who developed the swamps and deserts making the land prosperous, creating mass immigration from neighbouring countries.

It's not just Israel that caused the mess, but they played a part. They also are playing a part in stopping the mess from being cleaned up.


if not for israel taking those lands there wouldnt even be a chance at a state of palestine.  it would still be jordan and egypt.    its a small minority in israel that think the entire land should be israel.  its a small minority in the territories that dont want the entire land to be palestine.   abbas plays lip service to the idea sometimes and then says things that clearly demonstrate he doesnt it.    the right of return wont happen and the jews will never give back the western wall in east jerusalem, so those demands cannot be on the table of they want any deal with israel.   abbas made recent comments backing off the right of return but they still demand east jerusalem.   how can things even get off the ground with an impossible demand?



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"Its like sex, but with a winner!"

MrBubbles Review Threads: Bill Gates, Jak II, Kingdom Hearts II, The Strangers, Sly 2, Crackdown, Zohan, Quarantine, Klungo Sssavesss Teh World, MS@E3'08, WATCHMEN(movie), Shadow of the Colossus, The Saboteur

The only thing that I see helping long term is Palestine being recognized as a state, and a rise of secularism and multi-culturalism in the region to blurr boundraries and make religious hate fade away.

EDIT: But for that to happen, there needs to be stability.



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