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Forums - Politics Discussion - What can be done with Isreal? Realistically!

Just to make it clear, Hamas and Fatah can kiss my ass, but don't try to tell me it isn't Israel slaughtering those innocent civilians.



I am the black sheep     "of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong."-Robert Anton Wilson

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MrBubbles said:
hatmoza said:
MrBubbles said:
hatmoza said:


I would post pictures of at least half a dozen Palestinian children either mutilated or burnt to a crisp to counter this, but I try to avoid looking like a propagandist.


more than likely murdered by hamas due to their rockets or storing munitions in residential areas. 

That's interesting. Proof of that nonsense?

proof that these happen?  or proof that those people died that way?

can you prove it was israeli strikes?   i added a line to my previous post afterwards.  i would like you to consider it. 

You said that those children were more than likely killed by hamas. I want to see proof. Don't give me the spin. Just answer that claim you made. That is all.



I am the black sheep     "of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong."-Robert Anton Wilson



    R.I.P Mr Iwata :'(

Kasz216 said:
TheLivingShadow said:

Hey,

At first I was sympathetic with the Israelis' desire to "defend" (not that much defense is needed against those innacurate rockets) themselves against the rocket attacks. However, the fact that this conflict is mainly political is the reason I no longer like Israel's actions.

Consider the fact that the first response by Israel came in November 8, two days after the USA elections, and just in time for Israel elections in January. Netanhayu's party benefits if there is a war. The fact that they're reacting right now is not coincidental at all, since Gaza is having the hearing at the U.N. about statehood later this month. They had to react now, and they had to kill Palestinian civilians in order to send their message

The issue you are missing here is that Hamas stepped up rocket attacks GREATLY.

It isn't Isarel is attacking now for political reasons... it's Hamas.

They stepped up attacks to throw things off right before the Israeli elections... and even more importantly, before Abbas presents his motion at the UN.

Since if it passes... it greatly hurts Hamas and helps Fatah... so they need this blood to benefit politically as they'll blame Abbas for this for being a "collaborator" who sits by while gaza gets bombarded.

What benefit does Israel get starting a big war right before Abbas brings this vote to the UN?

hamas/palestinians have fired more than 8000 rockets into Israel in the last 3 years alone.

thats more than the germans did to England in of of world war II.

Also hamas always uses civilians as human shields. They want civilians to die, so they can get sympathy and good PR for their cause. I mean they place their rocket launch sites right next to Mosques, school yards and playgrounds, etc. then launch hundreds of rockets from the location. Israel is that with no other option than to eliminate the launch site. Israel even warns the civilians to leave the area before they attack, they send out pamphlets warning them that they are about to attack, and they should get out. And inevitably when some dont leave and then get injured in the attack, theres an outcry against Israel.

Also since hamas is a terror group that largely doesnt wear uniforms, they are an unconventianal military force in that there is usually a fine line on who is an enemy combatant and an innocent civilian. 

It also doesnt help when there is so many numerous cases of hamas, and or the corrupt news media showing fake or staged civilians causualties caused by Israel. whether its a fake dead guy that falls out of his casket, and jumps back in, or its a cropped photo of a soldier stomping on some girl, when infact its not even IDF. or photos of injured children that were caused by hamas themselves, or completey unrelated injuries from syria. 

Hamas rejoices when civilians are injured or killed because they know the corrupt media will side with them and sympathize with them. Hamas wants people to die as it furthers thier goal. Hamas targets not only their own civilians (by either firing rockets that dont reach isreal and infact blows up in gaza, or using them as shields  to hide behind when the do military strikes) but they also target Israeli civilains. Isreal obviously doesnt use their civilians as martyrs, they try to protect them at all costs, and Isreal als doesnt target palestinian civilians, they also try to protect them at all costs. They warn them tell them to leave. its nearly impossible for Isreal to avoid civilian causulties because hamas trys so hard for it to happen. because Hamas want civilian deaths

 

Its such a shame that when isreal offers to give up land in the peace, it never happens. From being turned down in 2000 when Isael practically gave in to all palestianian demands and where turned down, or in 2005 where they gave up Gaza, uprooted their own people, all in the name of a peace offering. Hoping that this land would appease these people. Obviously instead of that land being used to promote economic growth and prosperity for the people in gaza, it is used as a strategic military launching site used to further the goal of annihilating Israel.

If the muslims/arabs lay down their arms in the middle east there will be no more war, there will be peace. If Israel lays down their arms, there will be no Israel.



, killerzX said:

hamas/palestinians have fired more than 8000 rockets into Israel in the last 3 years alone.

thats more than the germans did to England in of of world war II.

I'm not sure about your statistics, but newsru.co.il gives following data for last 9 months of 2012:

November (as per November 15th). 116 attacks, 352 rockets launched, 96 intercepted. 3 dead, 19 wounded.
October. 48 attacks, 127 rockets launched, 8 intercepted. 5 wounded.
July. 15 attacks, 22 rockets launched, 1 intercepted. No casualties.
June. 42 attacks, 112 rockets launched, 15 intercepted. 6 wounded.
May. 4 attacks, 4 rockets launched. No casualties.
March. 104 attacks, 214  rockets launched, 66 intercepted. 5 wounded.

Total for 9 months:

831 rockets were launched in 329 attacks, out of which 186 were intercepted (22%), the rest scored 3 dead and 35 wounded. Average intensity of attacks is ~1 attack (2-3 rocket per attack) per day.

Stunning "intensity" and "overwhelming" effectivity :D If Jews are going to somehow raise effectivity of their air defense system (Iron Dome) from atrocious 22% to smth more bearable, they might have never bothered with rocket attacks again. Though they claim they do target selection depending on where the rocket is going to land (plausible and explains low inteception rate), it's clear they miss quite a lot, which is unfortunate given all rockets are variants of Grad, i.e. easy, slow and unguided target fired at super-slow intensity.

I bet Germans despite how low effectivity of their rocket attacks were, are head and shoulder above this^. What makes your comparison is even less valid is various Grad rockets HE warhead weight is in 18-20kg range, while ballistic and, I should stress it specifically, guided missiles warhead Germans fired at Britan weights smth like 700-1000kg.

So you're just overdramatizing the situation here with unneeded comparisons, vicitimazing Israel.

 

UPD: lol, Dees is brilliant as usual...

And again a Nazi reference (Arbeit macht Frei), people sure are obessed with Nazi references. Why no love for Germans?



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It's such good news that there is a ceasefire, maybe we can work towards peace now. Both sides need to forget their differences for once and just get along



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By the way... all one has to do is look at the Aftermath to see what was the cause of the conflict.

The biggest winner in the whole thing? Hamas. With the various politicians visiting Gaza and the successful ceasefire via Egypt, it only increases their credibility.

The biggest loser? Well outside the people who died and their families... it's Abbas. He had to sit by and do nothing while Gaza gets targeted.