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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - 5 reasons wii u will be the ps2 of next generation

FatalInertia said:
Soundwave said:
FatalInertia said:
Soundwave said:
FatalInertia said:
Soundwave said:
FatalInertia said:
Soundwave said:
FatalInertia said:
Soundwave said:
FatalInertia said:
Soundwave said:
FatalInertia said:
Soundwave said:
Sony isn't going to go anywhere, but I think they are in for a decline and Microsoft is going to significantly out-spend them next generation on hardware, marketing, and exclusives.

Microsoft can see the blood in the water, they're not just going to idly accept Sony taking half of what they perceive to be "their audience". They are going to go for the kill, mark my words.


Not going to happen, MS has barely any exclusives now. MS ain't going to kill anything, the only reason they got the jump on Sony this time was sony was late and expensive, thats not happenoing this time. Sony has too many internal studios and third prty exclusives are rare. Sorry you're wrong. You cannot just go out and buy studios, SMs has evena dmitted the difficulty in having exclusives. and internal studios.


MS isn't going after exclusives now because there's no point. This generation is largely decided.

Next gen when both PS4 and 720 are at 0 userbase, MS throwing an extra $10-$20 million at a particular game could turn things in their favor in many instances.

Also I don't buy for a second that Capcom just gave Nintendo the Monster Hunter franchise out of the goodness of their hearts. Nintendo outbid Sony for it plain and simple behind the scenes, probably because Sony can't afford to even outbid Nintendo these days (that Wii Sports/Brain Training/Nintendogs monster profits didn't just evaporate overnight or go to charity).

Microsoft as a corporation makes too much money, in 3-6 months they make more than Sony has made in the last 10 years. And they do that every year. The living room is important for Microsoft to own because they know they screwed the pooch getting in late to the cell phone/MP3 player/tablet markets and they need something to show their investors that they have leadership in outside of the same ol' PC OS.

The 720 is going for the kill. Bet on it. If Sony thinks they're in for an easy ride next generation, they are going to get hammered IMO.

They already spent money on many games this gen didn't make much difference, a company is not going to lose sales and make many third party exclusives, are pretty much dead. Your in for a shock, MS is not going to come close to kill anything, sony has too much development and third party relationships, and mmajor brand recognition WW.

 

MS makes more money then nintendo to, means squat.


The disparity is too much at this point though, Sony is in bad, bad shape.

They can't do anything if MS decides to turn the next-gen into a bidding war for certain exclusives. If that happens, they're screwed.

And MS isn't stupid. They know this full well. They've done it to other companies before in the PC field, lol. Sony is nothing special. They've broken many other companies for breakfast.

I'm not even a MS fan, I don't own a PS3-Wii (I even have a Vita, lol), but I don't think MS is a teddy bear. I expect them to sense they can get a quick knock-out next gen and they are going to go for it. In a lot of ways, I think Sony is going to be MS' punching bag for the frustration they feel for being late to the cell phone/tablet market. They're going to take it out by taking control of the living room set-top-box market.

It's clear you have zero clue how business works. this isn't MAdden business........................ OS market is not the gaming market, apples and oranges.  Nothing MS can do to undercut sony in gaming.

 

Again, thid parties wont agree to lose out on sales as dev cost will be even higher next gen, its suicide, exclusives will be mainly first party. MS already tried the buy everything with DLC, advertising, still losing every year and sony is not making the same mistakes with the ps4.


Really? Nothing MS can do, huh?

So what if they start to offer money, big dollars for exclusives on certain big games upfront? What are you going to do Sony?

What if they take a look at Sony's spec for PS4 and go to AMD and say "we'll give you $30-$40 extra per unit, give us the higher end GPU and more RAM"?

Maybe you think this next gen for Sony will be easy. I think you badly underestimate how bad MS wants the living room. They need it.

Really beating Sony at this point is just one question -- "how much are you willing to spend?".

MS already did that, and again, its not that simple, not everyone can be bought. Epic, all major engines and companies are already invested in PS4 development. You have no clue how business works. You also rossly under estimating sony, majorly, good thing MS is not as NAive. Ea is also firmly engrained with ps4, you knopw the worlds biggest publisher. Again thinking business is like the board gamne game of life.

 

Why didnt ms do it in 2007, 2008 when PS3 was being laughed at and people thought it was dying? Because its not that easy

The reason why MS couldn't do it last gen was because Sony was too established as the king of the gaming business. All the games for 2007/2008 were already greenlit by 2005/6 at which time as a publisher you have to respect Sony becauuse the PS2 had just sold 100+ million consoles and was the earth/king/moon/stars of the industry. MS was still earning their stripes and was still a bit of an unknown because the first XBox only sold about 20 million, and a publisher couldn't just ignore that brand difference.

Not anymore. "Playstation" is just another brand now.

If I'm a publisher and I'm making a game, and MS is willing to give me $20 million for a year exclusivity, and I know both the PS4/720 effectively are starting at 0 userbase ... honestly I might take the bait. Especially like most studios right now probably are hurting for cash.

Who says publishers really want 2+ platforms to be successful? What's better for a publisher? Having two platforms with 70 million users between them, or one platform with 70 million on it?

MS paid 50 milliojn just for gta IV dlc, look where that got them? It doesnt work, again you ae clueless about business. Sorry but yuo are in for a surprise, MS knows not to underestimate Sony in gaming. And BTW, Playstation WW is still a massive brand more so then xbox.

Why is outspending Sony and getting aggressive "underestimating" Sony? Wouldn't it be the opposite?

Take 2 can't put GTAIV on the 360 exclusively, because Playstation is too established of a brand 5 years ago. Most people still expected 5 years ago for the PS3 to far and away the no.1.

But today, things have changed considerably. Going with XBox is not such a big risk anymore, MS proved this generation that they are a real player in this business.

LMAO PS was weaker then then it is now, sony was doomed then remember? PS3 was not selling well, 360 had a much bigger install base. PS brand has improved since then.

 

PS was never a risk and isn't. Gonna bookmark this to laugh at you in a couple years, no one in the industry thinks this is happening and are invested in ps4 for a reason. GAmes will cost MS hundreds of millions alone next gen just for DLC rights.


If games were developed in a weekend you might have a point.

Game dev cycles have to be greenlit years in advance.

So Sony really didn't suffer for their stupidity this generation because most of the big game IP were already greenlit and planned for PS3 by 2005/2006 and weren't going to be canned just because Sony went through a phase in 2007 were they were sucking gas.

And it's going to cost MS hundreds of millions (like the budget of an Avengers movie) just to get DLC? LOL. OK, if you say so.

Even the highest budget games next gen won't cost $100-$200 million period, unless a publisher wants to go broke.

Exactly, games take years and millions yet all major studios are making games for ps4 as we speak, so much for MS killin off ps4, those making the games no it's not happening, but keep living in fantasy land.

 

GTA 4 dlc times rights cost 50 million...................... do the math, ms isn't that stupid like you think they are. Games next gen are slated to double in cost.


I'm sure PS4 will get a fair amount of support.

I'm just saying, I would not be surprised if Microsoft goes out and handpicks 1 or 2 big exclusives early on in the generation and buys it out to give them an edge. I don't even think all devs want to maintain this multi-platform setup. Having to port games is a waste of resources and money, I'm sure many devs would prefer a "1 console system" like the PS2 had.

I also would not be surprised if MS takes a look at whatever spec Sony comes up with for the PS4 and simply says "double our RAM, give us the better GPU" etc.

That would be another way spending a little upfront can given them an advantage over 7-8 years.

And I think for sure the 720 is going to have a bigger marketing budget.



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Soundwave said:
FatalInertia said:
Soundwave said:
FatalInertia said:
Soundwave said:
FatalInertia said:
Soundwave said:
FatalInertia said:
Soundwave said:
FatalInertia said:
Soundwave said:
FatalInertia said:
Soundwave said:
FatalInertia said:
Soundwave said:
Sony isn't going to go anywhere, but I think they are in for a decline and Microsoft is going to significantly out-spend them next generation on hardware, marketing, and exclusives.

Microsoft can see the blood in the water, they're not just going to idly accept Sony taking half of what they perceive to be "their audience". They are going to go for the kill, mark my words.


Not going to happen, MS has barely any exclusives now. MS ain't going to kill anything, the only reason they got the jump on Sony this time was sony was late and expensive, thats not happenoing this time. Sony has too many internal studios and third prty exclusives are rare. Sorry you're wrong. You cannot just go out and buy studios, SMs has evena dmitted the difficulty in having exclusives. and internal studios.


MS isn't going after exclusives now because there's no point. This generation is largely decided.

Next gen when both PS4 and 720 are at 0 userbase, MS throwing an extra $10-$20 million at a particular game could turn things in their favor in many instances.

Also I don't buy for a second that Capcom just gave Nintendo the Monster Hunter franchise out of the goodness of their hearts. Nintendo outbid Sony for it plain and simple behind the scenes, probably because Sony can't afford to even outbid Nintendo these days (that Wii Sports/Brain Training/Nintendogs monster profits didn't just evaporate overnight or go to charity).

Microsoft as a corporation makes too much money, in 3-6 months they make more than Sony has made in the last 10 years. And they do that every year. The living room is important for Microsoft to own because they know they screwed the pooch getting in late to the cell phone/MP3 player/tablet markets and they need something to show their investors that they have leadership in outside of the same ol' PC OS.

The 720 is going for the kill. Bet on it. If Sony thinks they're in for an easy ride next generation, they are going to get hammered IMO.

They already spent money on many games this gen didn't make much difference, a company is not going to lose sales and make many third party exclusives, are pretty much dead. Your in for a shock, MS is not going to come close to kill anything, sony has too much development and third party relationships, and mmajor brand recognition WW.

 

MS makes more money then nintendo to, means squat.


The disparity is too much at this point though, Sony is in bad, bad shape.

They can't do anything if MS decides to turn the next-gen into a bidding war for certain exclusives. If that happens, they're screwed.

And MS isn't stupid. They know this full well. They've done it to other companies before in the PC field, lol. Sony is nothing special. They've broken many other companies for breakfast.

I'm not even a MS fan, I don't own a PS3-Wii (I even have a Vita, lol), but I don't think MS is a teddy bear. I expect them to sense they can get a quick knock-out next gen and they are going to go for it. In a lot of ways, I think Sony is going to be MS' punching bag for the frustration they feel for being late to the cell phone/tablet market. They're going to take it out by taking control of the living room set-top-box market.

It's clear you have zero clue how business works. this isn't MAdden business........................ OS market is not the gaming market, apples and oranges.  Nothing MS can do to undercut sony in gaming.

 

Again, thid parties wont agree to lose out on sales as dev cost will be even higher next gen, its suicide, exclusives will be mainly first party. MS already tried the buy everything with DLC, advertising, still losing every year and sony is not making the same mistakes with the ps4.


Really? Nothing MS can do, huh?

So what if they start to offer money, big dollars for exclusives on certain big games upfront? What are you going to do Sony?

What if they take a look at Sony's spec for PS4 and go to AMD and say "we'll give you $30-$40 extra per unit, give us the higher end GPU and more RAM"?

Maybe you think this next gen for Sony will be easy. I think you badly underestimate how bad MS wants the living room. They need it.

Really beating Sony at this point is just one question -- "how much are you willing to spend?".

MS already did that, and again, its not that simple, not everyone can be bought. Epic, all major engines and companies are already invested in PS4 development. You have no clue how business works. You also rossly under estimating sony, majorly, good thing MS is not as NAive. Ea is also firmly engrained with ps4, you knopw the worlds biggest publisher. Again thinking business is like the board gamne game of life.

 

Why didnt ms do it in 2007, 2008 when PS3 was being laughed at and people thought it was dying? Because its not that easy

The reason why MS couldn't do it last gen was because Sony was too established as the king of the gaming business. All the games for 2007/2008 were already greenlit by 2005/6 at which time as a publisher you have to respect Sony becauuse the PS2 had just sold 100+ million consoles and was the earth/king/moon/stars of the industry. MS was still earning their stripes and was still a bit of an unknown because the first XBox only sold about 20 million, and a publisher couldn't just ignore that brand difference.

Not anymore. "Playstation" is just another brand now.

If I'm a publisher and I'm making a game, and MS is willing to give me $20 million for a year exclusivity, and I know both the PS4/720 effectively are starting at 0 userbase ... honestly I might take the bait. Especially like most studios right now probably are hurting for cash.

Who says publishers really want 2+ platforms to be successful? What's better for a publisher? Having two platforms with 70 million users between them, or one platform with 70 million on it?

MS paid 50 milliojn just for gta IV dlc, look where that got them? It doesnt work, again you ae clueless about business. Sorry but yuo are in for a surprise, MS knows not to underestimate Sony in gaming. And BTW, Playstation WW is still a massive brand more so then xbox.

Why is outspending Sony and getting aggressive "underestimating" Sony? Wouldn't it be the opposite?

Take 2 can't put GTAIV on the 360 exclusively, because Playstation is too established of a brand 5 years ago. Most people still expected 5 years ago for the PS3 to far and away the no.1.

But today, things have changed considerably. Going with XBox is not such a big risk anymore, MS proved this generation that they are a real player in this business.

LMAO PS was weaker then then it is now, sony was doomed then remember? PS3 was not selling well, 360 had a much bigger install base. PS brand has improved since then.

 

PS was never a risk and isn't. Gonna bookmark this to laugh at you in a couple years, no one in the industry thinks this is happening and are invested in ps4 for a reason. GAmes will cost MS hundreds of millions alone next gen just for DLC rights.


If games were developed in a weekend you might have a point.

Game dev cycles have to be greenlit years in advance.

So Sony really didn't suffer for their stupidity this generation because most of the big game IP were already greenlit and planned for PS3 by 2005/2006 and weren't going to be canned just because Sony went through a phase in 2007 were they were sucking gas.

And it's going to cost MS hundreds of millions (like the budget of an Avengers movie) just to get DLC? LOL. OK, if you say so.

Even the highest budget games next gen won't cost $100-$200 million period, unless a publisher wants to go broke.

Exactly, games take years and millions yet all major studios are making games for ps4 as we speak, so much for MS killin off ps4, those making the games no it's not happening, but keep living in fantasy land.

 

GTA 4 dlc times rights cost 50 million...................... do the math, ms isn't that stupid like you think they are. Games next gen are slated to double in cost.


I'm sure PS4 will get a fair amount of support.

I'm just saying, I would not be surprised if Microsoft goes out and handpicks 1 or 2 big exclusives early on in the generation and buys it out to give them an edge. I don't even think all devs want to maintain this multi-platform setup. Having to port games is a waste of resources and money, I'm sure many devs would prefer a "1 console system" like the PS2 had.

I also would not be surprised if MS takes a look at whatever spec Sony comes up with for the PS4 and simply says "double our RAM, give us the better GPU" etc.

That would be another way spending a little upfront can given them an advantage over 7-8 years.

And I think for sure the 720 is going to have a bigger marketing budget.

By the time sony official specs are known next xbox will be too far in development to make changes, do you even know how manufacturing works? LMAO., its clear you think this business and making hardware is as simple as counting to three. Either way MS isn't gonna kill anything if anything ps4 will be a much tought foe, unless sony makes the same mistake twice which is unlikely.



FatalInertia said:
DanneSandin said:
FatalInertia said:
DanneSandin said:
FatalInertia said:
Soundwave said:
Sony isn't going to go anywhere, but I think they are in for a decline and Microsoft is going to significantly out-spend them next generation on hardware, marketing, and exclusives.

Microsoft can see the blood in the water, they're not just going to idly accept Sony taking half of what they perceive to be "their audience". They are going to go for the kill, mark my words.


Not going to happen, MS has barely any exclusives now. MS ain't going to kill anything, the only reason they got the jump on Sony this time was sony was late and expensive, thats not happenoing this time. Sony has too many internal studios and third prty exclusives are rare. Sorry you're wrong. You cannot just go out and buy studios, SMs has evena dmitted the difficulty in having exclusives. and internal studios.

Well, first party studios isn't the end all be all. If so, Nintendo would be king of the hill. All the time. Gen after gen. But that's not the case.

Microsoft could BUY exclusivity if they wanted to, and that's pretty much how they got so big; they paid a lot of devs to make games multiplat

MS paid devs to make games multi-plat? LMAO. Dillusionmal.

I could be wrong about that, sure. But my 2 points still stand: Sony's 1st party games ain't gonna make the console nr1 next gen, and Microsoft could buy exclusivity for quite a fair share of games.

They are still wrong.... Its not as simple as simply buying them, you need to know how to run, integrate them into the company Sony has a lot better internal development, just look  what MS did to rare. MS evenb admitted challenges in this department. Sorry but real business is not like madden football where you can just buy up who ever you want.........

 

Not going to happen. Sony has just as strong third party, better first party, free online, and no cost advantage nor head start for ms.


well, I wasn't actually saying that ms would buy the studios. what i meant was that they could pay a studio to release a game exclusive to x3ox, not actually buying the studio. like how they probably paid to get exclusive rights for gears of war and mass effect 1.

the success of ps1 and 2 was because of third party exclusivity - mostly. nowadays microsoft has the same benefit: they have equelly as much third party support as sony. and there is a chance even nintendo might enjoy this benefit this coming gen. and if so, we all know that nintendos first party games sell a hell of a lot more than either of sony or micros.



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Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

FatalInertia said:

By the time sony official specs are known next xbox will be too far in development to make changes, do you even know how manufacturing works? LMAO., its clear you think this business and making hardware is as simple as counting to three. Either way MS isn't gonna kill anything if anything ps4 will be a much tought foe, unless sony makes the same mistake twice which is unlikely.


I'm pretty sure MS probably has a pretty good idea of the PS4 spec already. If they don't, it's nothing a few bucks to a developer or AMD employee in need of paying rent or alimony probably couldn't fix, lol.



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^ that's probably the longest "quote tree" I've ever seen on this site.

OT: I don't think any game console will ever repeat the PS2 success, there a lot of things to consider, like hardware prices, game prices, competition against the smartphones, etc. Besides the PS2 was practically on it's own during that time.   



Nintendo and PC gamer

Soundwave said:
FatalInertia said:
 

By the time sony official specs are known next xbox will be too far in development to make changes, do you even know how manufacturing works? LMAO., its clear you think this business and making hardware is as simple as counting to three. Either way MS isn't gonna kill anything if anything ps4 will be a much tought foe, unless sony makes the same mistake twice which is unlikely.


I'm pretty sure MS probably has a pretty good idea of the PS4 spec already. If they don't, it's nothing a few bucks to a developer or AMD employee in need of paying rent or alimony probably couldn't fix, lol.

No developer will lose out on many sales, third party exclusives are dead, stop living in fantasy land. Developers have been saying this for the last few years,



Attoyou said:
First?
SNES > GEN
PS1 >Saturn
PS2 > Dreamcast
Wii > 360

First never wins. Wii U doomed confirmed.


Hahaha you just clowned the OP on that argument. 

 

I think it'll start strong and even track above the Wii for the first months/first Christmas, but it's more expensive than the Wii and won't have the same novelty effect so I don't see it doing well with casuals (e.g. Grandparents, old people, non-gamers) like the Wii did. 

Old people who are non-gamers won't even realize the Wii U is a different thing than the Wii unless their grandkids explain it to them...



Just for the hell of it;

1: Other already covered this, but I'll chime in and say that being first doesn't mean much most of the time and certainly does not secure a sure win. Besides, getting a HD console on the market simply means that they will get to share more multiplats with the PS360 and not that it will have the market to itself, a fact overlooked by many. Nintendo are both starting and not starting the 8th generation simultaneously. Its basically starting a cycle where the PS360 has a 5-6 year head start.

2: Hmm, well yes but people have learned from this generation and won't make the mistake of overestimating a console so grossly again. Aren't you doing the exact same as Zelnick and Kaz here? Assuming a sure victory simply because the predecessor did well and won? Nintendo is not in a great position right now, contrary to popular belief and were effectively forced out of the gate first, not only revealing their hand but also stepping into perilous territory. It offers pretty much what the other have offered for over half a decade with a slight hardware upgrade, it costs more and has seemingly very poor support.

3: The launch line-up is strong simply due to 3rd party multiplats, games it shares with the PS360, so this hardly yields a massive advantage. It also lost out on the launch of the biggest game of the year; Black Ops 2, the PS360 will snag the vast majority of the sales of this title before and during the holidays. And the window after the launch, which is just as important, looks quite bleak. Old ports galore, according to most reports.

4: Touchscreen controls on a handheld device/phone/tablet and a home console are two very different things. For tradiotional gaming, touchscreen holds no advantages and the tablet might very well end up having the same impact as Move (i.e; virtually none). Core titles will still be biggest on the PS360 and they have solid and established online communities and services, an area where Nintento have a lot to learn and they are also very late to the party. Competing over core gamers with XBL will be a daunting task indeed. Ensuring that their service is "as close as possible" to PSN and XBL won't do much, it would have to be better and the PS360 will yet again be the primary choice of most core gamers. The Wii U could fall between two chairs when it comes to appeal and this is the main reason why I remain dead sure that it won't sell anywhere near as many units as the Wii in it's lifetime.

5: This is not an advantage for Nintendo, Sony and MS have been given the liberty to bide their time and build something competitive that could be tailor made to fight the Wii U, all the while already having viable consoles that compete on the same level and recieve a lot more support allround. When the next PS and x-box arrive, they will likely both launch at the same time and around this time of the year, stealing massive thunder and fully utilizing the huge 3rd party benefits they have built over the 7th gen (the x-box in particular). It is extremely likely that the PS4 and x-box 720 will not only be more powerful (not to mention a lot better storage capacity) but also offer more connectivity, more features, superb online that improves upon already proven concepts (PSN and XBL) and a launch line-up that will likely overshadow anything Nintendo can release within the same timeframe. You also need to factor in that the market is moving more quickly than before, possibly forcing Nintendo to launch their 9th gen console first and a repeat of the 7th generation's twilight.

Nintendo not only have to battle incoming consoles from Sony and MS, they also need to try to punch into the HD market that is already inhabited by almost 140 million consoles which are, by now, profitable, well established and very dominant in hardware sales. If anything, Nintendo aren't in a much better position than they were before the Wii launch; they need everything to go right to win the next bout but I think they have allowed to themselves to be stressed and pressured and have made some poor and odd decisions along the way.

Bottom line, in my view, the Wii U does not have an easy time ahead of it and will be hard pressed to sell more than 70-80 million units in the end given all the circumstances.



The wiiu will do well.



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