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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - 5 reasons wii u will be the ps2 of next generation

z101 said:
FatalInertia said:

LMAO PS was weaker then then it is now, sony was doomed then remember? PS3 was not selling well, 360 had a much bigger install base. PS brand has improved since then.

PS was never a risk and isn't. Gonna bookmark this to laugh at you in a couple years, no one in the industry thinks this is happening and are invested in ps4 for a reason. GAmes will cost MS hundreds of millions alone next gen just for DLC rights.

http://kotaku.com/5960411/how-sony-is-turning-into-a-ghost-in-japan-and-around-the-world

Lol! I thought about posting that too, but opted not to. It won't make a difference...



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

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gameheart said:
I may not agree with #1 on the OP's point but there are some truth to it. Being first to the market can help you in some areas like 1) in terms of sales 2) in terms of securing games from 3rd party in order to build foundation on time before their competitor's next console release (in reality, this is what help microsoft greatly with their 360 even the RRoD didn't kill them because they were the only one in the market with nextgen console for year and had time to correct their errors).

Though there is one fact that has been occuring since generations back that being 1st on market, having install base of 10 million and above before the other competitor's release, have always won the console race.


Two things;

1: It is quite unlikely that the Wii U will manage to sell 10 million and more before the next PS and xbox release. In fact; I dare guarantee that it doesn't. The 360 managed about 6 million or so when it had the HD market all to itself. The Wii U is not the Wii nor is it the PS2, there's no reason to think it will sell zounds, the incentive to purchase a Wii U is fairly small for most when the other HD console offer better versions of the same games and for a lower hardware price and they will also have superior online and services.

2: Again, I don't know where people get this notion that the Wii U will have the market to itself, it isn't jumping one generation ahead and sailing a sea on it's own, it is jumping into the same sea that the PS360 has been sailing for years and actually catiching up, not leaving them behind. The P360 will recieve all the same 3rd party benefits along the way with the added bonus of ensuring the same support for their coming consoles on the basis of having moved tremendous amounts of 3rd party software in the 7th gen. The Wii U is effectively entering a market with 140 million consoles and a highly established userbase and developer culture to boot, this is not an advantage for them, it could very well be a huge problem. The Wii U will not gain a 5-10 million head start, the PS360 already has a 140 million head start.

I remember when people laughed at the notion that HD consoles were "future proof". Perhaps they were all along.



Mummelmann said:
gameheart said:
I may not agree with #1 on the OP's point but there are some truth to it. Being first to the market can help you in some areas like 1) in terms of sales 2) in terms of securing games from 3rd party in order to build foundation on time before their competitor's next console release (in reality, this is what help microsoft greatly with their 360 even the RRoD didn't kill them because they were the only one in the market with nextgen console for year and had time to correct their errors).

Though there is one fact that has been occuring since generations back that being 1st on market, having install base of 10 million and above before the other competitor's release, have always won the console race.


Two things;

1: It is quite unlikely that the Wii U will manage to sell 10 million and more before the next PS and xbox release. In fact; I dare guarantee that it doesn't. The 360 managed about 6 million or so when it had the HD market all to itself. The Wii U is not the Wii nor is it the PS2, there's no reason to think it will sell zounds, the incentive to purchase a Wii U is fairly small for most when the other HD console offer better versions of the same games and for a lower hardware price and they will also have superior online and services.

2: Again, I don't know where people get this notion that the Wii U will have the market to itself, it isn't jumping one generation ahead and sailing a sea on it's own, it is jumping into the same sea that the PS360 has been sailing for years and actually catiching up, not leaving them behind. The P360 will recieve all the same 3rd party benefits along the way with the added bonus of ensuring the same support for their coming consoles on the basis of having moved tremendous amounts of 3rd party software in the 7th gen. The Wii U is effectively entering a market with 140 million consoles and a highly established userbase and developer culture to boot, this is not an advantage for them, it could very well be a huge problem. The Wii U will not gain a 5-10 million head start, the PS360 already has a 140 million head start.

I remember when people laughed at the notion that HD consoles were "future proof". Perhaps they were all along.

@bold

1) I never pit Wii U against the current generation of which I don't still understand why you guys do that. Whether you like it or not the Wii U is the start of next generation console. Be it whether it has technological leap or not, it will be fighting against Orbis/PS4 or Durango/X720 or whatever they will be called when they come around late next year. And remember because nintendo fans had not enjoyed HD like the others, they have every reason they jump or upgrade from Wii to Wii U from the start and everyone knows thats true but can the same happen to the fans of Playstation or Xbox? Do they have reason to upgrade to the next console from the launch day? We will find out when the time comes.

2) Also Wii U will have almost the entire year if not more than a year. You are making it sound as if it is impossible for the to get to 5 million? Lets be real here, with preorders sold out almost everywhere, Nintendo could sell at the low end 4-5 million by march 2013 alone and correct me if I am wrong, Nintendo forecasted 10 million unit between Wii and Wii U.

3) Lastly, as they have the entire year in the market alone, whatever the case may be, they have time to correct their mistakes and flaws whenever they stumble at that time and do everything neccessary to market their shit up. To some extent look what happened to 360 for example with the RRoD, they had time to correct their problems and the 3DS was falling behind but nintendo had to take some measures to put 3DS back on track.



gameheart: I never said that it won't sell 5 million in one year, it seems likely it will (I don't think it will sell 10 million though, as mentioned), the point I was making is that it won't be in the lead by 5-10 million since there are already 140 million HD consoles out there.

Why pit the Wii U against the PS360? Beacuse that's the main competition right now, the only funny thing here is the complete turnaround from "even though the Wii is a lot weaker than the PS360, they still compete in the same market and on the same terms" to "Wii U is more capable and is a true next gen console and has the market to itself". This is illogical and downright false, the Wii U is the "Wii HD" that Pachter was always whining about and it belongs specs-wise (which is the main thing for developers) in both the 7th and 8th generation of consoles.
3rd parties aren't going to jump ship on the tremendous installed base of the PS360 in favour of a Nintendo with HD capabilities (or the arbitrary "start of a new generation"), the best case scenario for the Wii U is that it recieves support on par with two consoles who are close to going out of commission and getting replacements on the market fairly soon. It remains unlikely that they will even get that, though, since 3rd parties remain sceptical of the Nintendo audiences's will to purchase their games in any bulk. It will get plenty of ports though, which is certainly better than nothing. As for your whole "Nintendo fans haven't enjoyed HD" argument, there are two problems with that; one is that HD gaming has long been available elsewhere and those who craved it so bad would have gotten their HD on by now and the other is that according to "real" Nintendo fans, HD doesn't matter anyway since visuals aren't a selling point and never has been for them (same goes for added functionality like multimedia and online gaming), so that's a double whammy right there. If anything, you should be arguing that the Wii never competed on even grounds with the PS360 since it isn't capable of HD visuals and has a lot weaker hardware, this was actually an early PS360 fan argument to disarm the Wii when it really started moving.


There is no hardware leap like in the 7th gen that will segregate the market again (nothing like the Wii - PS360 and nothing like the transition into HD and uncompressed audio and textures), its as un-dramatic as launching PC games at times when new GPU's arrive in the summer months, there isn't the same radical difference. The Wii U will have to compete with four consoles since it has sat itself neatly between where the PS360 is today in terms of hardware and where the next PS and xbox will likely aim and end up.

To even imagine that the Wii U will be able to do anything like the PS2 did is sheer madness in my opinion. The market won't allow another PS2 and the Wii U is sailing straight into dire straits and fumbling into unfamiliar territory. The fact of the matter is; Nintendo were short-sighted with the Wii, they even managed to say that "online doesn't matter". Such a company has a lot to learn in 2012 if they want to stay and remain relevant for another thirty years.

For the record; I don't put much stock in the next PS and xbox either and I don't think we'll see much growth in the console market (if any) in the 8th gen as the generation will likely be over more quickly than the 7th. As it stands, the PS2 might very well outlive the Wii and that is unprecedented in console history, for a market leader to outlive the winner of the next gen (yes, the NES and SNES were produced for a long time but hardly moved relevant numbers at all in the end, and in fact after the beginning of the next generation after them, unlike the PS2). The PS2 was a one-time thing and a home-run under absolutely perfect conditions and I honestly can't see anything like it in the future.

The Wii U does not have the HD gaming market to itself, there is no need for me to repeat that when its clear as day, this is the basest of logical surmissions right here. The Wii U doesn't have the HD market to itself any more than MPEG4 movies vs MPEG2 movies at movie streaming sites, MPEG4 is better on all accounts in some way but its still the same thing for anyone releasing movies. And there is no reason for 3rd parties to make the jump and follow Nintendo either, development cost will run the same but you have an uncertain audience and a tiny installed base to work on.

CCFanboy; "Nintendo don't just sit back and watch a platform die" That sentence can be disproven simply by using their current home console as proof, this is precisely what happened to the Wii.
Nintendo can't carry the Wii U on first party efforts alone, just like they couldn't with their previous three consoles.
And as for Zelnick comments, again, you seem to think that; Wii sells a lot = Wii U sells a lot and the fact that you compare it to the PS2 in the OP leads me to believe that you think, like so many others, that history shows the future and that things follow in set paths.
Again, the Wii disproves this, it crushed the PS3 even when Sony was in the most favourable position a gaming company has ever been in (literally) so assuming that the Wii U will take the world by storm simply based on the Wii's sales and charts is not very a decisive indicator of things to come.

Maybe Nintendo can't turn it around? They have been to slow to embrace technology, the underestimated the HD penetration rate and the importance of online and extra functionality, the Wii U shows that they are desperate to follow the lead of others, they're making a console that is very similar to what already exists, effectively blocking the magic that the Wii brought to (certain parts of) the market.
Simply offering what others have been doing for years won't do them much good .

As for the Vita, the handheld market is under real threat from mobile and tablet gaming as well as browser games and social games on social networking sites. With the Vita, Sony are trying to squeeze and force the grand home console formula into pocket format, and they're failing hard. The best selling DS and 3DS games are the ones made by developers who realise that you need to tailor your product to the market and media/format, Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed and similar franchises lose all their merit on tiny screens with poor sound and wonky controls.
I guess what I'm saying is; the Vita is a mistake, something I think we can actually agree on.

Perhaps core gamers will be more accepting of the Wii U, at least as far as the games are concerned, I'm not sure about the Gamepad controller though. But, if they fail to keep their hold on the casuals, the massive sales will be hard to come by. Like I've said; I think they're trying to catch both groups and might end up between markets.
Like the age old saying; "If you chase two rabbits, you will lose them both."



z101 said:
FatalInertia said:

Not too mention ps2 had almost no competition, nintendo lost hardcore gamers and thir parties years ago, no one is going to buy a wii-u for cod, or AAA games, those peeps will just get them on PS 3 or 4 or xbox.

Even the inferior (despite the superior controls) Wii version of Black Ops sold 1.2 millions, roughly a tenth of the Xbox360 version. The Wii U of Black Ops 2 will get a much bigger part of this cake in the future.

Much bigger as in 20% or even more?



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@Mummelmann

Really dude? You are still using the BS talk that pachter said that the is Wii U is the Wii HD really? Even it is not rocket science to understand that it is next gen because nowadays even journalist has missed the concept of what next gen truthfully means and tie it down to only graphics,AI, physics, power processing unit but never take input features into consideration and I never said that 3rd party will jump ship from PS360 to Wii U, all I said was that nintendo fans have reason to jump ship or upgrade. The thing is, I have always been a believer of "anything can happen anytime" and I am not so blind or in denial to think that sony or microsoft could conquer the next gen cuz anything is possible. It all depends on how the big 3 approaches the current market and giving the market what they need and not what they want. Nothing goes exactly the same every generation in terms of sales or 3rd party support or creativity in innovations. This coming next gen is going to be pretty interesting for the big 3 because up till now, each of their presence in this console war has affected each other by pushing themselves to the limit.



There are far too many 3rd party games announced after the Wii U that are only coming to 360/PS3 and that worries me a lot. There is no reason to not have every multiplat release make it's way to the Wii U, it just shows how unwilling 3rd parties are to support Nintendo.



^And what are those games you speak of?



phenom08 said:
^And what are those games you speak of?


List of PS360 games unconfirmed for Wii U -

Hitman: Absolution, Grand Theft Auto V, Devil May Cry, Anarchy Reigns, Lost Planet 3, Dead Space 3, Bioshock: infinite (maybe), Metal Gear Rising, Tomb Raider, Army of Two 3, Crysis 3, Dragon Age 3, Grid 2, Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII, XCOM, etc.



1. First to market~ has the first new system ever dominated? NES did but none have since, in fact many failed despite being first to market, look at the like of the turbografx-16 which came out in 1989 (2 years before SNES!), the Atari Jaguar/ 3DO which both came out in 1993 (18 months before ps1!) and the sega Dreamcast which came out in 1999 (1 year before PS2). Xbox 360 was just lucky to do so well and even it didn't do that much better than PS3. The Wii U will either sell way or do terribly, based on this knowledge

2. "I'm skeptical" you said that 7 years ago~ we will see how the first games play on these type of controller pretty soon, but I think it will play quite well.

3. Launch lineup~ yeah the launch lineup is pretty solid with games like Assassins Creed III, ZombiU and Mario of course all available with the console. Hopefully, this kind of support will continue throughout it's life, i don't want a game drought like the 3DS had. Ultimately, games will sell this machine, especially if they find new ways of playing because of the screen on the game pad.

4. Acceptance~ this all depends on how good the 3rd party games are, if they are i don't think it will be ignored like the Wii was in the end.

5. What do we really know about the others?~ nothing but rumours, but i don't expect them to be much more powerful, as they will be too expensive. The wii u has a decent price point, so why would sony or microsoft put so much more in there machines, that they cost significantly more? That would just let Nintendo dominate, due to the cost



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018