zarx said:
| Wlakiz said:
1. Again, you are mistaking flaw for performance/Convience trade off. IBM didn't 'forget' to add in branch prediction or OOE, they designed the SPE to have a sepcific purpose which is to do FP calculation fast. Their design choice made it possible for SPEs to complement the GPU's performance which allowed developers to push the graphics beyond the GPU's specs. Thanks to Cell's 8 years of production, most if not all developers have dedicated compilers and game engines designed to make optimization for them. If a developer 5 years down the road have to start 'hand optimizing' their code to get their desired performance, then you just effectively created a cpu with useless/bloated features.
2. Your point is going off on a tangent. Most developers like to use their own engine to avoid paying licence fee and they have free control on what the engine does. That is why, even tho Unreal 3 Engine was avialible, only a select games used it. Developers already have engines built from last 8 years of PS3 development, continue using Cell will mean a much lower cost for the 'next gen'.
3. Wrong, first, IBM already developed a scaled up version of Cell called PowerXCell 8i back in 08 that does 102 GFlops, Highest end of Core i7 Extreme edition is only at 90 Gflop and it consumes twice as much power. Second, the next gen is 22nm and how many chips are in 22nm? Unless they started devloping in parallel with Ivy bridge and Power8 chips, most likely start at 32nm for the next gen and go down to 22nm as they age.
4. Did you pull that $1.5b from your ass too? It takes 8-10years to create a new architecture from scratch, but its cheap to create scaled ones.. just look at corei7, it came out first then they scaled it down to make it affordable and that didn't take long.
As someone who did CUDA programming, I can tell you that you know nothing about GPGPU. Cell IS a hybrid of GPU and a conventional CPU. In fact, the way you copy memory from the GPU cache for your 'task' is almost the exact way you would do it in Cell.
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1. It may have been a deliberate choice by Sony and IBM for most developers it still caused problems and made their lives harder. With both MS and Sony going x86 it will make multiplatform des lives much easier, and with budgets as high as they are that is a good thing.
2. there are hundreds of games built on UE3, and as high end engines get ever more powerful licensed engines will become even more wide spread. Most publishers are building engines that will be used company wide like Frostbyte, MT Framework, Anvil, Luminous, Fox etc the days of making an engine for one game are at an end. And as I said outside of Sony first party modern engines are designed on modern x86 or Xenon, CELL really has no advantage in the regard they will still need to update compilers and codebase for a next gen CELL.
3. AMD (well Global Foundries) aren't doing 22nm they are going from 28nm to 20nm. TSMC is going 28nm-20nm as well. Only Intel has 22nm volume production that would be ready in time for next gen and they won't be used.
4. R&D spend
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1. Learning to ride a bike is hard, but once you do, it's an efficent form of transportation. My point still stands that any difficulty in 'learning' or 'using' cell is alrady mitigated by the 8 years of experience that developers have.
2. 'High end engines' don't get more powerful, they just demand more resources and processing power. Since you can't upgrade consoles with more memory or better GPU, your 'next gen x86' Engines will just get out-dated after a year or two and you have no way to use the newer ones. You should not lump PC life-cycles with Console ones.
3. I don't know where you're getting that information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Micro_Devices
"AMD also formed a strategic partnership with IBM, under which AMD gained silicon on insulator (SOI) manufacturing technology, and detailed advice on 90 nm implementation. AMD announced that the partnership would extend to 2011 for 32 nm and 22 nm fabrication-related technologies."
22nm is next step on ITRS
4. Theres no indication that R&D for an updated Cell woudl cost Sony '1.5b' if that is what you're implying, considering IBM already made an updated one just 4 years ago.