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Forums - Gaming - Dispelling the myth: The Wii market is (NOT) bigger than the HD twin market

 

So, what's your take?

News to me. 6 9.38%
 
I already knew. 58 90.63%
 
Total:64
happydolphin said:
Oni, I need your expert advise. Can you name me an early core Wii+HD multiplat that was as high quality on Wii as it was on HD, and then one that came out towards the end of the gen?


I can give you one that was released in 2010.

Metascore (Wii) - 77/100

Metascore (PS3) - 75/100

Metascore (PC) - 75/100

Metascore (360) - 74/100

The reason why the Wii version scored higher is simple: it was different. The Forgotten Sands was built from the ground up to make use of the Wii's features, and it really succeeded. The other versions were stuck with a rather PoP game with better combat (which still wasn't great) and less interesting level design.

"Wii gamers have often been forced to make do with a substandard product for their less powerful system. This time, they get a great game built from the ground up to succeed." - GameInformer



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I like the graph, but as people said, I could have already guesses this. I would also add that outside of a bigger market, they also represent different markets.



happydolphin said:
RolStoppable said:
happydolphin said:

(...)

2) Sony and MS pushed the "core" market, whereas Nintendo didn't. They pushed the pole opposite of that market, the casual market, via the software they published, and via their marketing.

(...)

Is that really true? Are Twilight Princess, Super Mario Galaxy and Super Smash Bros. Brawl central pillars of what you call casual gaming?

We'll glance over the marketing part, which I think we both agree on.

As for the software part of point 2, I understand that TP and SMG are top quality games, I won't go into brawl it's another type of title compared to Mario and Zelda, but for the sake of having a good convo let's throw it in, all 3 are top quality games that appeal to core gamers.

However, contrast them now to games like Gears of War, which sold on avg. 6m a piece. The people who bought COD are the people who bought GoW, the same who bought Assassin's Creed, the same for Batman AC/AA. I see that market and the TP/MG/Brawl market as cross-cutting, but more separate than not. A lot of players that like one don't like the other, most of the time.

Do you agree with that point of view? I could understand why you didn't, it is pretty selective. I'm just going by what I understand from the consumers of these products, be it online or at video game stores, even the sales results of multi-platform games (Wii+HD).

its not even that, fact is Ninty didnt push those games anywhere near as much as they pushed the Wiiseries of games, that was their primary focus, their core games were secondary in terms of exposure.



KylieDog said:
superchunk said:
KylieDog said:


Dead Rising on Wii, that is what happens when you try downport a HD console game that makes real use of the system.

Sure a game with very little resources, done quick and dirty and utilized RE4's engine... an engine first used on Gamecube. Sorry, but that is not a good example.

COD games are still a far better example.


No, they really aren't because on a technical level they are lazy efforts for HD consoles.  The graphics have never been great and every one of them is sub HD.

The "HD" part is not the concern though. That's the part that would be removed and down-ported. The question is surrounding the rest of the gameplay and the only one out of the bunch (ignoring multiplayer) that I would be sceptical of is AC due to its vast overworld with tons of computer driven people. Sure the AI is simple for the most part, but it is still very large and a big reduction in that would have changed the game itself.

However, other FPS, TPS, batmans, and so on had worlds that were more limited and a downgrade of visuals would have been more sufficiant. Could of left out multiplayer in most as they are primarily solo experiences anyways.

Again, its a futile argument as it was never done. 3rd parties proved their own truth by never catering to core on Wii and it vanished early.



oniyide said:

its not even that, fact is Ninty didnt push those games anywhere near as much as they pushed the Wiiseries of games, that was their primary focus, their core games were secondary in terms of exposure.

That's what I meant by the marketing part brah. But did you mean in terms of volume and # of titles released in the respective categories?

You can't expect Ninty to solely focus on the non-casual market either.



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Courtesy of FOX, boys. A core game that was of higher quality (budget?) on the Wii, here are the sales. It was in 2010:
http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=forgotten+sands&publisher=&platform=&genre=&minSales=0&results=200

PosGamePlatformYearGenrePublisherNorth AmericaEuropeJapanRest of WorldGlobal
1 Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands PS3 2010 Action Ubisoft 0.17 0.30 0.01 0.11 0.58
2 Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands X360 2010 Action Ubisoft 0.26 0.22 0.00 0.06 0.55
3 Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands PSP 2010 Action Ubisoft 0.08 0.16 0.01 0.09 0.33
4 Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands Wii 2010 Action Ubisoft 0.09 0.09 0.00 0.02 0.19
5 Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands DS 2010 Action Ubisoft 0.09 0.00 0.00 0.01 0.10
6 Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands PC 2010 Action Ubisoft 0.00 0.01 0.00 0.00 0.01
Total0.690.770.020.281.76


happydolphin said:

Courtesy of FOX, boys. A core game that was of higher quality (budget?) on the Wii, here are the sales. It was in 2010:
http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=forgotten+sands&publisher=&platform=&genre=&minSales=0&results=200

PosGamePlatformYearGenrePublisherNorth AmericaEuropeJapanRest of WorldGlobal
1 Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands PS3 2010 Action Ubisoft 0.17 0.30 0.01 0.11 0.58
2 Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands X360 2010 Action Ubisoft 0.26 0.22 0.00 0.06 0.55
3 Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands PSP 2010 Action Ubisoft 0.08 0.16 0.01 0.09 0.33
4 Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands Wii 2010 Action Ubisoft 0.09 0.09 0.00 0.02 0.19
5 Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands DS 2010 Action Ubisoft 0.09 0.00 0.00 0.01 0.10
6 Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands PC 2010 Action Ubisoft 0.00 0.01 0.00 0.00 0.01
Total0.690.770.020.281.76


ok so it sold ~600k on PS360 each and ~200k on Wii. 1/3 the sales... in 2010 well after any core audience on Wii had vanished.

Pos Game Platform Year Genre Publisher North America Europe Japan Rest of World Global
1 Call of Duty 3 Wii 2006 Shooter Activision 1.12 0.82 0.00 0.23 2.16
2 Call of Duty: World at War Wii 2008 Shooter Activision 1.13 0.55 0.00 0.18 1.86
3 Call of Duty: Modern Warfare: Reflex Edition Wii 2009 Shooter Activision 0.93 0.39 0.00 0.14 1.46
4 Call of Duty: Black Ops Wii 2010 Shooter Activision 0.71 0.38 0.00 0.12 1.22
5 Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 Wii 2011 Shooter Activision 0.33 0.15 0.00 0.05 0.53
Total 4.21 2.29 0.00 0.72 7.22

COD is a better example and shows the migration of core people away from Wii. Each game got better each with and even included Multiplayer. Yet it continued sell less for one simple reason. Core realized NO OTHER 3rd PARTY games were coming after 2008/9 and started buying PS360s, they then of course bought the PS360 version of the games.



happydolphin said:
Oni, I need your expert advise. Can you name me an early core Wii+HD multiplat that was as high quality on Wii as it was on HD, and then one that came out towards the end of the gen?

There wasnt any...and thats my point. Dead Rising was an early 360 game and the Wii couldnt even run THAT! And there are people who still believe that it could run AC with just a hit on visuals, LOL. Its ignorance. Play AC on PSP and tell me how well that went over. COD, that engine is old as hell and you know what, MW3 STILL ran like crap on Wii, pop-ins slow downs, its not just visuals.



happydolphin said:

Courtesy of FOX, boys. A core game that was of higher quality (budget?) on the Wii, here are the sales. It was in 2010:
http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=forgotten+sands&publisher=&platform=&genre=&minSales=0&results=200

PosGamePlatformYearGenrePublisherNorth AmericaEuropeJapanRest of WorldGlobal
1 Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands PS3 2010 Action Ubisoft 0.17 0.30 0.01 0.11 0.58
2 Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands X360 2010 Action Ubisoft 0.26 0.22 0.00 0.06 0.55
3 Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands PSP 2010 Action Ubisoft 0.08 0.16 0.01 0.09 0.33
4 Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands Wii 2010 Action Ubisoft 0.09 0.09 0.00 0.02 0.19
5 Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands DS 2010 Action Ubisoft 0.09 0.00 0.00 0.01 0.10
6 Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands PC 2010 Action Ubisoft 0.00 0.01 0.00 0.00 0.01
Total0.690.770.020.281.76


Probably not budget, but the game does illustrate a point I'm trying to make (and I'm sure you're making to some extent). It doesn't matter if a third-party developer makes a really good core Wii game. At that point, people had far too many preconcieved notions to care.

By the way it was a rather nice looking game, I recall. Decent physics and effects, all running at 60 FPS.



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oniyide said:
happydolphin said:
Oni, I need your expert advise. Can you name me an early core Wii+HD multiplat that was as high quality on Wii as it was on HD, and then one that came out towards the end of the gen?

There wasnt any...and thats my point. Dead Rising was an early 360 game and the Wii couldnt even run THAT! And there are people who still believe that it could run AC with just a hit on visuals, LOL. Its ignorance. Play AC on PSP and tell me how well that went over. COD, that engine is old as hell and you know what, MW3 STILL ran like crap on Wii, pop-ins slow downs, its not just visuals.

jesus christ, why does anyone use DR. It was  game put on a Gamecube engine that came out well after the original. It was a rush job and not the same thing.