The site is mixed up a lot with "guesswork" places like NexGenWars. That's slowly changing, though.

Honestly, I think the biggest reason is the name. The "z" on the end makes this site sound really unprofessional, and it's difficult for a lot of people to get past that. If it were changed to just "VGC" or something, I think we'd see a major turnaround in the site's reputation.

Part of it is because this site refuses to live up to it's potential. Instead, the staff here would rather take the easy way out. We can't just point the finger all the damn time. There are obvious flaws that need to be fixed, if this site wants to go further.

there are always haters I thought we already knew that :P

well, ive heard of a few arguments on gt forums that this site is just full of nintendo fanboys, which is true, but it shouldnt effect its credability. However, i can see their point considering our review system (needs to be removed) and constant wii bashing from the fans on the other fanboys

Michael Jackson says it's the "Ghost of Jealousy".

Also that people think NPD is flawless not realizing they estimate too.

The fact that VGC is so close with a much much smaller data pool makes them the greatest.

The occassional errors will improve once VGC's source list grows.

NPD just hates someone stealing the spotlight. Giving it away for free no less. You see it's bad for business...

John Lucas 

grandmaster192 said: Part of it is because this site refuses to live up to it's potential. Instead, the staff here would rather take the easy way out. We can't just point the finger all the damn time. There are obvious flaws that need to be fixed, if this site wants to go further.

 What are the obvious flaws?

 

Please don't tell me your another Diomedes. 

Osirus said: Sqrl said: Its definitely a fair question to ask. I think you will find that people don't mind it when someone questions the data, but only when they don't wait for an answer before making up their mind. A lot of people new to seeing this type of data make simple mistakes regarding NA vs US or WW vs NPD or NPD vs NA, etc...and occasionally folks have a hard time understanding the subtle differences between those and things.   Yeah the posters on that site don't understand much I figured they where spreading FUD thats why had to come here for honest answers.

Most of the reasons already is posted to this thread, but the reasons Sqrl posted basically is the most common (along with confusion between manufacturers shipped to retail number and sold to customer number, that the tracking companies track. VGChartz track sales in similar way that NPD, Famitsu, Chart track does, with the difference that VGC only has smaller sample size. Because of this, the instances that track with larger sample are naturally more accurate, but it doesn't make VGC wrong, and even less, when you compare the numbers. There's also a certain marginal of error which should be taken into account when looking at VGC (or every other) numbers. Also worth noticing is that VGChartz numbers are adjusted whenever there's reliable accurate data available, which proves that VGC has been wrong. And if you compare the VGC numbers to the other trackers numbers, you can see that VGC is pretty much in line with them. And to a question about which is correct, it depends about who are you using as reference. If we are going to use VGC as reference, it's the most accurate source available, if we use NPD, then NPD is the most accurate source. This is because they track different markets. VGC tracks worldwide, NPD tracks USA. And even the VGC Americas number is not the same number with NPD, because VGC number has the whole continent and NPD has one country from the continent. The funny thing is, in context with above, that people complained VGC number missing 1,7 M 360:s, but nobody complained NPD missing 7 million 360:s from their numbers, when M$ announced their shipped figure earlier this month.

For those not around when IOI used to post on GAF:

He got a bad rap because he would make claims he never would back up. ie most of his numbers.  I'm not the official word on this but have been around gaf and the resultant sales age.  From what was percieved, he was just another poster with no ties nor contacts to get these types of numbers.  NPD is just another tracker but they have methods that are divulged.  How does IOI get his numbers?  Nobody knows.  Maybe he thinks it's a trade secret but if you don't know the source, how can you be sure?

 Could he ever prove that his numbers are legit?  I haven't been to this website for awhile but it's not the case where people hate IOI just for the hell of it.  They just didn't like him making up numbers w/o any sources.  There is a hell of a community on GAF that tries at guessing at these numbers and never pretends to be anything but guesses.  For the most part, people saw IOI as a big guesser who has made his site into something more. 

 Why would he do that?  I don't know and all my reasons would be guesses.  But I remember a big defense IOI put up was that his site was simple, didn't involve finances etc.  Now, I can't move on this site w/o seeing an ad.  But I'm just making a guess. 

well because they think npd is always correct not knowing that they estimate too

skinnyrattler said: For those not around when IOI used to post on GAF: He got a bad rap because he would make claims he never would back up. ie most of his numbers. I'm not the official word on this but have been around gaf and the resultant sales age. From what was percieved, he was just another poster with no ties nor contacts to get these types of numbers. NPD is just another tracker but they have methods that are divulged. How does IOI get his numbers? Nobody knows. Maybe he thinks it's a trade secret but if you don't know the source, how can you be sure? Could he ever prove that his numbers are legit? I haven't been to this website for awhile but it's not the case where people hate IOI just for the hell of it. They just didn't like him making up numbers w/o any sources. There is a hell of a community on GAF that tries at guessing at these numbers and never pretends to be anything but guesses. For the most part, people saw IOI as a big guesser who has made his site into something more. Why would he do that? I don't know and all my reasons would be guesses. But I remember a big defense IOI put up was that his site was simple, didn't involve finances etc. Now, I can't move on this site w/o seeing an ad. But I'm just making a guess.

Regardless of what happened in the past the numbers posted for hardware are consistently in line with what other tracking firms put out (before they put out their data) and that holds true even when numbers come out different from what most might expect. Is it perfect? Nope, its also not claimed that it is either.

I agree where the numbers come from is important but regardless of that, a simple forum poster doesn't provide this kind of data at your fingertips on a moments notice on any forum afaik. You truly cannot deny that the features available on this site are far more powerful than anything else you can get without paying a monthly fee. So there is definitely a value to the service being provided here even if you choose to believe its nothing more than a regurgitation of NPD numbers.

As for methodology, to my knowledge the explanation NPD gives of their methodology is simply to say "We collect data from x% of retailers and use statistical inference to adjust for the remainder of the market.", where x fluctuates as they add and lose retailers. Which to my knowledge is precisely what ioi has said in the past. Anyone with a basic background in statistics understands that you don't need very large samples to get statistically meaningful data so it really wouldn't be difficult to sample 300 locations in the US and produce a sound statistical model. The difficult part is tweaking the model to account for regional market nuance and fluctuations.

 

As for the ads, he requires no money from anyone to come see any part of his site or use any feature. As someone who has built webservers from the ground up from hardware to software I can certainly understand a need to support bandwidth and server costs. If he should ever require users to pay or restricts features to "premium access only" you will have an excellent point and one I would agree with wholeheartedly.

 

It may very well be the case that ioi in the past was a simple forum poster with no extra knowledge. But that certainly doesn't preclude him from ever building a tracking service of his own and I think anyone who follows the data anywhere near as close as I have over the last 6 months would have a hard time questioning that that is exactly what he has done. But thats the sort of thing you have to see to believe and each person should trust the numbers or not trust the numbers for their own reasons. I say that because I know I wouldn't believe some guy telling me what to believe either so the only thing I can really do is tell you to approach it with a fair minded viewpoint.

Just give it a chance and you just might be surprised, after all...what do you have to lose but a bit of time...and you're posting on the internet so thats sort of moot really .