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Forums - Movies Discussion - Videogames: Taking cues from the world of movies

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Will this day come?

Yes, it's already here. 1 14.29%
 
Yes, very soon. 1 14.29%
 
Yes, but it will take time. 0 0%
 
Yes, in a very long time. 1 14.29%
 
No, it's a pipe dream. 1 14.29%
 
No, and I like it that way. 2 28.57%
 
No, because I'm a beuche. 0 0%
 
Total:6
Mummelmann said:
Games taking so cues from movies is fine in small bursts, games taking every cue from Hollywood is not, it is the very thing that has defined and defiled (pardon the poor pun) this generation and is making older gamers shy away in disgust. Its the equivalent of turning all cars into bumper cars to entertain a greater mass and make driving a safer experience, car enthusiasts would the aghast at the notion.
The Hollywoodification (long-ass word that doesn't exist) of the gaming industry is bad news for anyone who cares about depth, soul, story, real content and longevity as well as replay value.
Quick-time events, aim-assists, press win button and other goodies are the Justin Bieber of the gaming world and are starting to set the norm and standard for the whole industry.

In summary, for me at least, this does not bode well for the future. Not well at all.

Great post.



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amp316 said:
While I am not against video games being cinematic at times or wanting to tell a story, I don't like for that to be the sole purpose of the game. I can love a cinematic series like Resident Evil, but can deal with a series like Mario having the same generic story because the platforming is so great. The game play should definitely be first and foremost in developers minds. A cut scene can add a lot to a game, but should not be overdone. I'll give the example of Xenoblade. While I absolutely adore the game play and did really enjoy the cut scenes at first, the game started to bombard you with them to the point that you didn't really care about the story by the end of the game because you had to fix a sandwich or something every time that one of them started.

@bold. Possibly that's because they were either too long or not good enough, like OP pushes for.

A counter-example is Max Payne 3, which I've played a few chapters of the other day, where each cut scene is an important part of a story, one which you want to know what's happening.

On another topic, in a very different case, a game like Mario could easily take cues from silent film.



happydolphin said:
amp316 said:
While I am not against video games being cinematic at times or wanting to tell a story, I don't like for that to be the sole purpose of the game. I can love a cinematic series like Resident Evil, but can deal with a series like Mario having the same generic story because the platforming is so great. The game play should definitely be first and foremost in developers minds. A cut scene can add a lot to a game, but should not be overdone. I'll give the example of Xenoblade. While I absolutely adore the game play and did really enjoy the cut scenes at first, the game started to bombard you with them to the point that you didn't really care about the story by the end of the game because you had to fix a sandwich or something every time that one of them started.

@bold. Possibly that's because they were either too long or not good enough, like OP pushes for.

A counter-example is Max Payne 3, which I've played a few chapters of the other day, where each cut scene is an important part of a story, one which you want to know what's happening.

On another topic, in a very different case, a game like Mario could easily take cues from silent film.

Most otf them were too long.  The problem with most "cinematic games" though is the writing.  The script writers for video games usually aren't very good and if they were better, they would be working in another medium (novels, movies, television, etc.)  While I welcome a game with a great story, they are few and far between.

I do think that Mario has taken some cues from silent films (Charlie Chaplin and Harold Lloyd). 



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amp316 said:

Most otf them were too long.  The problem with most "cinematic games" though is the writing.  The script writers for video games usually aren't very good and if they were better, they would be working in another medium (novels, movies, television, etc.)  While I welcome a game with a great story, they are few and far between.

I do think that Mario has taken some cues from silent films (Charlie Chaplin and Harold Lloyd). 

I totally agree with your bolded statement. I really wonder what's slowing talent down in the games industry, is it due to business constraints, status quo and/or confused/ignorant gamer expectations? Also, why switch to another medium if you have talent in storytelling, is it because games are not adequate as a creative outlet in that respect?

Regarding Mario, do you think it can do better? If you were to compare Charlie Chaplin to Mario, which would you say executed the quirks better? Would you say there is breathing room for Mario to improve in that respect? Apart from the fantastic visuals and gameplay, I'm talking on a level of art.



amp316 said:
While I am not against video games being cinematic at times or wanting to tell a story, I don't like for that to be the sole purpose of the game. I can love a cinematic series like Resident Evil, but can deal with a series like Mario having the same generic story because the platforming is so great. The game play should definitely be first and foremost in developers minds. A cut scene can add a lot to a game, but should not be overdone. I'll give the example of Xenoblade. While I absolutely adore the game play and did really enjoy the cut scenes at first, the game started to bombard you with them to the point that you didn't really care about the story by the end of the game because you had to fix a sandwich or something every time that one of them started.

Yup, the huge amount of actual gameplay and stuff to do saved Xenoblade Chronicles. Otherwise it could have very well been another The Last Story, albeit with a proper battle system and game balance.

Now on topic: If the message of this thread is that video games should try to reach mainstream acceptance, then imitating Hollywood is a dead end. I don't think anyone will really disagree when I use the Uncharted series as the prime example for games emulating Hollywood. These games do it very well, yet they still top out at around 5m copies in sales. Meanwhile, video games that are pure games have shown a significantly higher ceiling, so if video games are supposed to become truly mainstream, then that would be the way to go.

Series like Grand Theft Auto may attempt to have cinematic storylines, but it needs to be considered that many players use these games as sandboxes and aren't even interested in completing the game.



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happydolphin said:
amp316 said:

Most otf them were too long.  The problem with most "cinematic games" though is the writing.  The script writers for video games usually aren't very good and if they were better, they would be working in another medium (novels, movies, television, etc.)  While I welcome a game with a great story, they are few and far between.

I do think that Mario has taken some cues from silent films (Charlie Chaplin and Harold Lloyd). 

I totally agree with your bolded statement. I really wonder what's slowing talent down in the games industry, is it due to business constraints, status quo and/or confused/ignorant gamer expectations? Also, why switch to another medium if you have talent in storytelling, is it because games are not adequate as a creative outlet in that respect?

Regarding Mario, do you think it can do better? If you were to compare Charlie Chaplin to Mario, which would you say executed the quirks better? Would you say there is breathing room for Mario to improve in that respect? Apart from the fantastic visuals and gameplay, I'm talking on a level of art.

I think that part of the problem with the storytelling is what the writer think the gamers expectations are.  One of the main problems is that they think that all of the leads need to be a brawny character like Marcus Fenix.  This isn't a knock on Marcus, I was just using him as an example.  Not every game has to feature a macho bad ass that's built like a moose.  Maybe there could be a game featuring a nerdy scientist that can figure out how to save the world by using his wits and never pick up a weapon or kill anyone.  This is the type of idea that an excellent game could be built around and I'm sure someone would buy it.  I think that the reason that talented writers aren't working in gaming is because most young writers don't aspire to write the greatest video game story ever.  Maybe that will change now that the younger generations are now brought up on video games that tell stories.  It's possible.

I think that Mario could definitely take cues from something like Chaplin or even Tom and Jerry and play up the slapstick humor or movements of the old silent movie actors.  That sort of things entertains me. 



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Tag "Sorry man. Someone pissed in my Wheaties."

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RolStoppable said:

Yup, the huge amount of actual gameplay and stuff to do saved Xenoblade Chronicles. Otherwise it could have very well been another The Last Story, albeit with a proper battle system and game balance.

Now on topic: If the message of this thread is that video games should try to reach mainstream acceptance, then imitating Hollywood is a dead end. I don't think anyone will really disagree when I use the Uncharted series as the prime example for games emulating Hollywood. These games do it very well, yet they still top out at around 5m copies in sales. Meanwhile, video games that are pure games have shown a significantly higher ceiling, so if video games are supposed to become truly mainstream, then that would be the way to go.

Series like Grand Theft Auto may attempt to have cinematic storylines, but it needs to be considered that many players use these games as sandboxes and aren't even interested in completing the game.

I think the message of this thread is that video games reach critical acceptance and the level of respect videophiles give to top-class movies.

I believe the movie industry has seen a plethora of highly skilled and influential artists that shaped the industry into what it has been throughout its history. I doubt the same has yet happened for video games, which is not too big a deal given the age of the industry.

Whereas often artists in the movie industry used money to push their ideas, it would seem the game industry uses ideas to push their business. These philosophies affect the intrinsic quality of the art behind the medium.

Like a movie can have excellent special effects but little emotional value, the same can be said about a game with great physics but is out of touch with the human psyche. Though in the context of games, the value-system between gameplay and art is very different, the art component still has a very important place to evoke the emotions that video games, afterall, can manage to bring out. There is an art component to games after all. Though it isn't as important a component as it is for movies, it is an important one to satisfy. The degree to which it needs to be satisfied is lesser, but it is still there.

In terms of mainstream acceptance:

I'm adding this segment because I thought it would be important to clarify my POV on this aspect.

Mainstream acceptance as defined by sales is a vague measure. For example, a piece can find mainstream acceptance in one audience but not in another. Take Mario Kart and Super Mario for example, they have achieved mainstream acceptance, but from what we understand, in general it is limited to a younger audience, accompanied by family and relatives every now and then, not unlike movies like Toy Story. Then take a movie like Indiana Jones, which has all the qualities of slapstick humor, and the creative genius of Stephen Spielberg and the intensity of Harrison Ford, and you get a piece that is universally enjoyed by young and old alike. It earned its place in the world of movies, and is a respected piece as a classic.

Another example is a movie like The Matrix, which affected a lot of people who watched it and created a kind of revolution of ideas when it came out. A lot of this has yet to really be seen in the games industry I believe.