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Forums - Politics - US Senate candidate: Pregnancy from rape can be ‘something that God intended to happen’

Mr Khan said:
Allfreedom99 said:
Some people are very quick to paint this man as someone that sympathizes with rapists. I do think this candidate definitely phrased his statement in a bad way.

From how it appears this man holds to the Evangelical Christian belief. In the christian belief God's will plays out in humanity as time goes on. This happens both on a large scale and small. In Christian belief God is sovereign and nothing happens that He does not know about or that He won't know about to take place in the future. In the Christian belief God has given mankind the ability to choose. Mankind is not controlled but has the freedom of choice. This was demonstrated when the first man and woman chose to disobey God and ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Therefore their minds were opened to rebellion against God and the knowledge to disobey His Will for mankind.

In the case of a rapist choosing to rape a woman that is the rapists choice originating from the first sin that gave mankind the knowledge of good morality and bad morality. It is Not the will of God for this man to rape the woman. This is where some gray areas happen in Calvinistic predestination and the complete choice of mankind in Arminianism. In Christian belief through the Bible it demonstrates that God hates sin because it is bad for mankind. Gods Will of course is not for mankind to rebel against Him and make immoral choices that harm mankind. So in a combination of Predestination and free will it is not God's will for the rapist to choose a sinful act and rape the woman, I think what this candidate is saying is that God intends for this life to be created. God knew that the man would choose to rebel against God's law to rape the woman. I definitely dont believe the candidate is saying that, "this woman should be allowed to be raped because it is God's will!" if this man held these beliefs we would be hearing that he had a record of evil acts and statements because if he was that twisted we would see it in his actions.

In this man's beliefs he knows God's ultimate Will for mankind will be carried out but it happens also in coordination of mankind's free choices. Since mankind has the ability to choose immorally then immoral actions will happen that go against God's law. What the man is trying to say is that it was God's will for the life to be created and it all happened within the choices of mankind. The man chose wrongly to rape the woman. A life was created. If life begins at conception as he believes the woman then has the choice to either destroy that life or allow the life to live. His belief is that the punishment should be on the rapist and not the child because he believes life begins at conception. If that is true then destroying the life would be classified as against Gods law of "thou shall not commit murder" and therefore against his beliefs. he didn't explain his statement in a way that provides clarity about his beliefs. Poor phrasing of words but some people seem to make it sound like its "ok to rape a woman ". Of course that is ridiculous and not what he believes.

He doesn't give a damn about God. He's just trying to promote an anti-feminist agenda.

If your implying he is just trying to push an agenda that intently means to diminish women I highly doubt. Many peole hold Pro-Life views in the U.S. today. His belief is that life begins at conception so therefore in his mind aborting is murder of a life. I doubt he is only trying to play on Christian beliefs that he doesn't hold and at the same time push an agenda from a belief of bringing women back to a "barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen" mentality.

He phrased his statements in a very inarticulate way. But basically Rape is wrong and punishment should be given to the perpetrator, but if a life is created then it should not be terminated, because he considers it a human being with the right to life.




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Allfreedom99 said:
Mr Khan said:
Allfreedom99 said:
Some people are very quick to paint this man as someone that sympathizes with rapists. I do think this candidate definitely phrased his statement in a bad way.

From how it appears this man holds to the Evangelical Christian belief. In the christian belief God's will plays out in humanity as time goes on. This happens both on a large scale and small. In Christian belief God is sovereign and nothing happens that He does not know about or that He won't know about to take place in the future. In the Christian belief God has given mankind the ability to choose. Mankind is not controlled but has the freedom of choice. This was demonstrated when the first man and woman chose to disobey God and ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Therefore their minds were opened to rebellion against God and the knowledge to disobey His Will for mankind.

In the case of a rapist choosing to rape a woman that is the rapists choice originating from the first sin that gave mankind the knowledge of good morality and bad morality. It is Not the will of God for this man to rape the woman. This is where some gray areas happen in Calvinistic predestination and the complete choice of mankind in Arminianism. In Christian belief through the Bible it demonstrates that God hates sin because it is bad for mankind. Gods Will of course is not for mankind to rebel against Him and make immoral choices that harm mankind. So in a combination of Predestination and free will it is not God's will for the rapist to choose a sinful act and rape the woman, I think what this candidate is saying is that God intends for this life to be created. God knew that the man would choose to rebel against God's law to rape the woman. I definitely dont believe the candidate is saying that, "this woman should be allowed to be raped because it is God's will!" if this man held these beliefs we would be hearing that he had a record of evil acts and statements because if he was that twisted we would see it in his actions.

In this man's beliefs he knows God's ultimate Will for mankind will be carried out but it happens also in coordination of mankind's free choices. Since mankind has the ability to choose immorally then immoral actions will happen that go against God's law. What the man is trying to say is that it was God's will for the life to be created and it all happened within the choices of mankind. The man chose wrongly to rape the woman. A life was created. If life begins at conception as he believes the woman then has the choice to either destroy that life or allow the life to live. His belief is that the punishment should be on the rapist and not the child because he believes life begins at conception. If that is true then destroying the life would be classified as against Gods law of "thou shall not commit murder" and therefore against his beliefs. he didn't explain his statement in a way that provides clarity about his beliefs. Poor phrasing of words but some people seem to make it sound like its "ok to rape a woman ". Of course that is ridiculous and not what he believes.

He doesn't give a damn about God. He's just trying to promote an anti-feminist agenda.

If your implying he is just trying to push an agenda that intently means to diminish women I highly doubt. Many peole hold Pro-Life views in the U.S. today. His belief is that life begins at conception so therefore in his mind aborting is murder of a life. I doubt he is only trying to play on Christian beliefs that he doesn't hold and at the same time push an agenda from a belief of bringing women back to a "barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen" mentality.

He phrased his statements in a very inarticulate way. But basically Rape is wrong and punishment should be given to the perpetrator, but if a life is created then it should not be terminated, because he considers it a human being with the right to life.

The proof is in the pudding. He's pro-Ryan Plan (which various Christian organizations have condemned, btw), has challenged the constitutionality of Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid, and i'd be willing to bet he's pro death-penalty.

You're either for life or you aren't.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Kasz216 said:
0815user said:

if that's true then you have one more reason not to belive in something like a god. but really: what do you expect from religious extremists like him? they are just like those people who planned and executed 9/11. blinded by faith, they would just do anything to defend the only reason that makes their life worth like living. god.


If it's true that god sometimes intends for people to rape people it's another reason to not believe he exists?

I don't know.  If god itends for people to rape other people, i'd say that's a reason to believe in him... because he's there... doing it.

Whether you want to like him or not... is another story but....

 

As for what the guy said... though it sounds controversial... it really isn't.  If you believe in full predesitnation and "God does things in mysterious ways" and all that... you pretty much have to believe that.

It's just the kind of thing most people wouldn't say unless directly asked.

I was about to say the same thing.  He's just professing an uncomfortable truth that most people wouldn't dare say, yet would have to believe if they believe in predestination, etc.



 

Mr Khan said:
Kasz216 said:
Mr Khan said:
badgenome said:
Nsanity said:
This nut job should be thrown into a pit and buried.

Tolerance.

tolerance is voided when you're actively out to harm people. He's promoting a culture of rape, like Todd Akin, and therefore deserves nothing but condemnation (and it only goes as far as condemnation because we live in a civilized society. If i had it my way...)

Except he isn't.  I mean... again... you are a fan of Queen's blade.  That and a lot of other anime you've likely watched and liked has done way more to promote rape culture then anything he's said.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Anime/QueensBlade?from=Main.QueensBlade

Queen's blade is a promotor of rape culture.

 

It's not like he just said this to say this.

The remark came in a debate in response for why he doesn't believe in an abortion exception in the case of rape.

Saying "rape is horrible" but fetus are life, and sometimes some great people are born due to rape and that it might be a part of god's plan when such people are born of rape."

is FAR from "promoting a rape culture."


I'd posit that you are unwittingly a bigger supporter of rape culture then said senator... at least in action, the only defense would be your relative lack of influence.

 

No offense but stuff like this is why actual feminists who this is a real issue and want to work against rape culture and sexism  have coined the term "Brogressive"

We've had the back-and-forth over this one as well, and the fetish-appeal of Queen's Blade is irrelevant to the argument, which is about the role of the pro-life argument as the promotion of an anti-feminist agenda (the making of women into sex objects being a different part of the problem)

Lack of influence indeed. Because despite the media i consume, i'm out there working against it. I would figure the semester working for an anti-sex-trafficking coalition outbalances three seasons of Queen's Blade (that i never paid for anyway)

And again, to bring this back to a theological perspective, predestination either holds, or it doesn't. It can't hold only partway.

I linked to TVtropes for a reason.

  • High On Catnip: Done to Elina by Nyx to comedic effect when she surprises her with catnip powder, after learning Elina was susceptible to it. The accompanying flashback even reveals that her sisters used to use it to keep her under control. Sadly for Nyx, it backfires when Elina rapes Nyx, while under its influence!


Having comedic rape in a show that's about the sexualization of women... i'd say  that's reinforcing rape culture... wouldn't you?

If you just forgot this happens.   Well that sorta proves my point doesn't it.

 

As for outbalancing... this guy is a senator.  How much do you know about his legislation.  You worked on an anti-rapae coalition for a whole one semester.  How do you know he hasn't done things to stop rape?  You just threw that accusation out there without even taking a look at his legislative history... even though for all you know he may have created entire anti-sex traficing coalitions and enforcement groups.

At best, your accusation under your own terms is completely unwarranted and unresearched.

 

 

Though no... there is no such thing as "outbalancing."  when it comes to sexism or society... nor would that.

Anti-sex trafficking coalitions resolve a specific problem caused by rape culture it does nothing to combat rape culture.   Supporting media (even just by piraitng it, which does show an interest) promote rape culture... which leads to these things systemtically.

If you were looking to "outbalance" you would speak agaisnt queensblade and other such manga that trivilize rape or use it in a sexualizing way... (as waaaay to many do.)



Kasz216 said:
Mr Khan said:
 

We've had the back-and-forth over this one as well, and the fetish-appeal of Queen's Blade is irrelevant to the argument, which is about the role of the pro-life argument as the promotion of an anti-feminist agenda (the making of women into sex objects being a different part of the problem)

Lack of influence indeed. Because despite the media i consume, i'm out there working against it. I would figure the semester working for an anti-sex-trafficking coalition outbalances three seasons of Queen's Blade (that i never paid for anyway)

And again, to bring this back to a theological perspective, predestination either holds, or it doesn't. It can't hold only partway.

I linked to TVtropes for a reason.

  • High On Catnip: Done to Elina by Nyx to comedic effect when she surprises her with catnip powder, after learning Elina was susceptible to it. The accompanying flashback even reveals that her sisters used to use it to keep her under control. Sadly for Nyx, it backfires when Elina rapes Nyx, while under its influence!


Having comedic rape in a show that's about the sexualization of women... i'd say  that's reinforcing rape culture... wouldn't you?

If you just forgot this happens.   Well that sorta proves my point doesn't it.

 

As for outbalancing... this guy is a senator.  How much do you know about his legislation.  You worked on an anti-rapae coalition for a whole one semester.  How do you know he hasn't done things to stop rape?  You just threw that accusation out there without even taking a look at his legislative history... even though for all you know he may have created entire anti-sex traficing coalitions and enforcement groups.

At best, your accusation under your own terms is completely unwarranted and unresearched.

 

 

Though no... there is no such thing as "outbalancing."  when it comes to sexism or society... nor would that.

Anti-sex trafficking coalitions resolve a specific problem caused by rape culture it does nothing to combat rape culture.   Supporting media (even just by piraitng it, which does show an interest) promote rape culture... which leads to these things systemtically.

If you were looking to "outbalance" you would speak agaisnt queensblade and other such manga that trivilize rape or use it in a sexualizing way... (as waaaay to many do.)

Whatever's cited there, i haven't seen it yet. Possibly part of the manga, which i haven't read. I do remember there being some controversy in the fandom about them portraying actual rape at one point, so it's possible that was it...

The guy isn't a senator, btw. He's the right-wing nutcase who unseated the old Republican senator from Indiana, Richard Lugar, in the primaries for being "too moderate." As far as Wikipedia can tell me, he's been a Christian missionary to Bolivia, which makes it all the stranger that he suddenly advocates all of these anti-human-dignity positions once he's running for Senate.

With an addendum here that the group i worked for was specifically working to figure out how to reduce demand for prostitution, so yes, it was working on a cultural front.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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sperrico87 said:
Kasz216 said:
0815user said:

if that's true then you have one more reason not to belive in something like a god. but really: what do you expect from religious extremists like him? they are just like those people who planned and executed 9/11. blinded by faith, they would just do anything to defend the only reason that makes their life worth like living. god.


If it's true that god sometimes intends for people to rape people it's another reason to not believe he exists?

I don't know.  If god itends for people to rape other people, i'd say that's a reason to believe in him... because he's there... doing it.

Whether you want to like him or not... is another story but....

 

As for what the guy said... though it sounds controversial... it really isn't.  If you believe in full predesitnation and "God does things in mysterious ways" and all that... you pretty much have to believe that.

It's just the kind of thing most people wouldn't say unless directly asked.

I was about to say the same thing.  He's just professing an uncomfortable truth that most people wouldn't dare say, yet would have to believe if they believe in predestination, etc.

But as somebody mentioned earlier, if you believe in predestination, then it was also God's will that the fetus be aborted.

So the whole thing is really quite silly.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

The responses in this thread are mind boggling. Wowzers.

The guy isn't promoting rape. And the argument that aborted babies were never meant to be is completely flawed. And determinist and free will arent exclusive to each other. Some believe in compatibility between the two.



As for what he said....

it's basic "God sometimes lets bad things happen for a reason" logic.



Kasz216 said:
As for what he said....

it's basic "God sometimes lets bad things happen for a reason" logic.

That's a weak, flimsy excuse to sell an anti-humanist and anti-women agenda. It's painfully transparent, and that's why he needs to get hammered on it, hard.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Max King of the Wild said:
The responses in this thread are mind boggling. Wowzers.

The guy isn't promoting rape. And the argument that aborted babies were never meant to be is completely flawed. And determinist and free will arent exclusive to each other. Some believe in compatibility between the two.

When the "compatibility" happens to conveniently support one's bigoted agenda, it's easy to be skeptical.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.