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Forums - Politics - Ben Stein says that taxes has to be raised on the rich....

Soleron said:
Mr Khan said:
...

The VAT as a replacement for corporate tax would be the better replacement, bringing in more revenue by catching all overseas companies that do business in America without imposing more of a burden on the ones that are here (maybe slightly more, as the VAT would be calculated to roughly bring in the same revenue as the current corporate rate, but without loopholes), and that excess revenue could work to help retraining programs for victims of outsourcing.

That's still raising effective taxes and the effect is going to be like a similar to inflation of that percentage. Not that I disagree with raising taxes but VAT isn't going to be magic.

To a degree, but like Kasz said, how many businesses are really taking advantage of the loopholes? It would only bring some of the companies, like GE, back into paying their fair share.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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Ail said:

Err are we living in the same country ?

I don't think most americans know what the word savings means...

This is the country of mortgage refinance and credits cards and the whole domestic economy is based on consumers  buying stuff through credit.......

How many adults on this site have 0 debts ? ( I do but I wasn't born in the US even if I live there so I was raised with different values).

 

As for economic growth you have to be realistic, baring a new technologic breakthrough like we had with computers in the 80s-90s the western world can not experience sustained growth of more than 4-5% in the next decade....

Growth is going at best to reach 4% and most likely stay closer to 3%...


No, we're not. I'm from the UK, living in Hong Kong.

I know Americans don't save, that's true for all Westerners. The reason being that the incentives just aren't there because of all the reasons I suggest. Only a moron would save their money, when infation is far higher than any interest they would earn. As it stands, it is more profitable to hold a mortgage with 3-4% interest, then it is to save. That is insane, and unsustainable.



klystron said:

With all due respect to Dr. Stein, I suggest he and you all watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=661pi6K-8WQ and see why the rich don't have enough money to run our bloated government.


That video you linked, that guy is twisting things a lot and obviously has some kind of superiority complex.  So many things were neglected in that video that it's stupid.  One obvious thing that is missing is pretty much any form of tax coming from anywhere else.  Where does sales tax go?  Where does everyone elses taxes go?  What about all the other taxes that we have that aren't just taxes on corporations and income?  Also, those numbers he mentioned ARE significant.  Significant enough to the point where balancing the increase of taxes with cuts in spending where they are questionable could pull us out of a deficit.  That video is overly biased.

edit: also when he mentioned the military, he should have doubled the amount due to the fact that if that were to happen, the deficit would have decreased by that same amount, in theory.



Way to miss the point of the video, MDMAlliance. The point is that you cannot run our massive government off the backs of the rich because you will run out of rich people. Then you and I will be next.

Sales taxes and other taxes aren't relevant. The argument is against the notion that the "rich don't pay their fair share." They can't! It won't keep us going for very long.

Economic growth is the only way to grow into today's level of spending. And we won't get there.



Instead of Taxing the Rich the Federal Government should create a "saved the deficit" Monument built on Federal land. Then everyone can volunteer to do their part and donate money to reduce the deficit. Then there can be different plaques or statues dedicated for each tier of person donating depending on how much they donate. If someone donates $1 million or so, they get their own statue. It's a much better way to feed the egos of the super rich rather than tax their money away which makes them angry. I'd also bet a lot of regular middle income people would gladly donate $20 or so and feel good about themselves to help the cause.

All politicians argue about taxes which just gets people upset or angry, no one ever talks about donating which invokes feel good emotions. I think they under estimate the power of people wanting to do good.

Of course taxes are never really about the deficit anyways. It's just two sides arguing for themselves. The deficit is just an argument tactic for each side to further their cause.



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MDMAlliance said:
klystron said:

With all due respect to Dr. Stein, I suggest he and you all watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=661pi6K-8WQ and see why the rich don't have enough money to run our bloated government.


That video you linked, that guy is twisting things a lot and obviously has some kind of superiority complex.  So many things were neglected in that video that it's stupid.  One obvious thing that is missing is pretty much any form of tax coming from anywhere else.  Where does sales tax go?  Where does everyone elses taxes go?  What about all the other taxes that we have that aren't just taxes on corporations and income?  Also, those numbers he mentioned ARE significant.  Significant enough to the point where balancing the increase of taxes with cuts in spending where they are questionable could pull us out of a deficit.  That video is overly biased.

edit: also when he mentioned the military, he should have doubled the amount due to the fact that if that were to happen, the deficit would have decreased by that same amount, in theory.


Most of that like sales goes to the individual  states... and therefore has no relation to the federal budget.



RVDondaPC said:
Instead of Taxing the Rich the Federal Government should create a "saved the deficit" Monument built on Federal land. Then everyone can volunteer to do their part and donate money to reduce the deficit. Then there can be different plaques or statues dedicated for each tier of person donating depending on how much they donate. If someone donates $1 million or so, they get their own statue. It's a much better way to feed the egos of the super rich rather than tax their money away which makes them angry. I'd also bet a lot of regular middle income people would gladly donate $20 or so and feel good about themselves to help the cause.

All politicians argue about taxes which just gets people upset or angry, no one ever talks about donating which invokes feel good emotions. I think they under estimate the power of people wanting to do good.

Of course taxes are never really about the deficit anyways. It's just two sides arguing for themselves. The deficit is just an argument tactic for each side to further their cause.


Nah.  Those rich people would probably just promote their time to help the poor.

Like Bono or Jay-Z.

They could be spending most of their wealth to help people... yet are farily light when it comes to their own pocket books.

The ones who actually tend to care about this stuff are the people who don't want a big deal made about it.

Politics related but honestly a good example is someone like Mit Romney really.  I think I read he gave something like 30% of his income to chairty?  Doesn't even bring it up when people call him a heartless rich dude.

Bill Gates has a huge ass foundation where he does alot of good, but he doesn't actually talk about it much.  They just do stuff.



Closing loopholes sound great on paper, but those huge companies that exploit those loopholes likely have bought out the Congress and have lobbyists up the ying yang on both parties.



SamuelRSmith said:
klystron said:
There never was a surplus. It's a myth. It is a surplus based on standard accounting tricks the government uses. Look at the amount of united states debt outstanding per year. It never went down. Not once. Including the late 90s. Look it up. Oh heck, I'll do it for you.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt.htm

Look at the numbers. You'll see they never go down. Ever.

Federal government spent over a trillion dollars on 82 means tested welfare programs. That's larger than even the defense budget. Welfare spending up 32% since 2008.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/18/report-welfare-governments-single-largest-budget-item-in-fy-2011-at-approx-1-03-trillion/

The solution is not even to cut spending (though I would love to see welfare eliminated by making any handouts civil debt against the recipients estate.) The solution is economic growth. We have been growing less each year the last several years. Most of the GDP growth has been in government spending.

Realistically you can't just shut it all down at once because sadly too many communities depend on military bases, government offices,etc, but you can slowly ramp it back. It's a balance that has to happen. Clearly making it larger is not working.

The United States won't ever get economic growth until it gets its monetary policy in order (you cannot having investment without savings, and you won't get savings with such low interest rates, and high inflation.), and it won't get its monetary policy in order until it gets its fiscal policy in order (interest rates can't rise, because then the Fed Government cannot afford the debt).

So, if the US wants to go back into prosperity, it first needs to eliminate the Federal deficit, over night. It then needs to work with its borrowers to restructure the debts, and it then needs to severely reduce the unfunded liability (though, there's less time pressure here, but some reductions need t come today).

After all that,  the Fed can allow interest rates to rise, the printing presses will stop, and the dollar will start reclaiming its value. Americans can start saving again, investing, and producing. Jobs will start flowing back into the country, and the trade deficit would also start to diminish.

... but, none of this will happen. At the current path, the ONLY result is hyperinflation, and a totalitarian Government.

I couldn't have said it better myself, this is the exactly the problem and the only way for it to be solved.  The fed has boxed us into a corner with no way out.  Nobody has the guts to face the problem that has been in the making for the last 30-40 years.  they just keep pushing it further into the future and making recovery more and more impossible than it already was.  Nothing can be solved without first defaulting on the debt or at least a very large part it, followed by massive restructuring.  



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

I'm actually surprise Ben Stien said this - and I have to give him credit for actually speaking realistically. But then he has seen how most people in this country are worse off as the result of Reaganomics an other things - where the Rich benefit from other people working and want to keep it all for themselves.

Often he is a big ol' conservative windbag - spouting swarmy things. I am most pleasantly surprised.

In other news - does anyone know if Fox News let him out alive?



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

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