RolStoppable said:
*raises hand* The entire trilogy is garbage and EA is cancerous to gaming. |
Silly. ME1 is largely free of EA's influence. I know you're trolling but whatever.

RolStoppable said:
*raises hand* The entire trilogy is garbage and EA is cancerous to gaming. |
Silly. ME1 is largely free of EA's influence. I know you're trolling but whatever.

Khuutra said:
There is no element of this which I can acquiesce to. Every single major decision you've made throughout the series is reflected in ME3, one way or another, often in combination with each other. Let Balak go in ME1? Well, he's back! But I didn't, so I had someone else to shoot now. Talked Charr and Ereba into shacking up? That ended up mattering, and it's even sadder if you didn't (soul-crushing in a really despairing way). Conversations you had in the first two games determine who lives and dies in the third one; a lot of people can't figure out how to keep Miranda alive simply because their previous decisions force them into scenarios that border on unwinnable. Or how about Rannoch, or Tuchanka, where peace and survival may be impossible to achieve based on the decisions you've made up to that point? Or Priority: Citadel, where you may have to kill the Virmire Survivor depending on who made it through the first two games, and how you've treated the Survivor the whole time? There were literally hundreds of decisions throughout the first two games that were reflected in ME3 in one way or another, some minor and some major, but all of them acknowledged, all of them ultimately mattering. There are more ways to go through ME3, more consequences to see, than the first two games combined - and that's not an opinion, that's a mathematical fact. And "pacing of the RPG elements" doesn't make any sense. There are two elements of RPGness in Mass Effect, and those are character customization and decision-making. ME3 had more of both than did ME2, and more decision-making (and consequences) than ME1. And my original point stands: the writing in ME1 was weakest, the combat in ME1 was weakest, the worldbuilding in ME1 was weakest, the characters in ME1 were weakest. The asari were paper cutouts blue space-women until their culture was explored in ME2; the krogan were basically dead opposites of the asari; the salarians were "the smart ones"; the turians were "the military ones"; this extended to every aspect of the universe. The setting matured and became more real and believable over the course of the series, not less, and all of the characters did the same thing. I cannot think of a single meaningful metric by which I would place ME1 at the top of the food chain in this series. |
Pacing of Mass Effect RPG elements in part three:
1) Speech (maxing out of speech) points was almost pointless. it only played into who lived and died. In Part 1 and 2 the RPG element of speech went a long way preventing wars, changing peoples opinions of you and more. In part three it didnt matter. Renegade and Paragon had some of the same responses and reactions as well. It was pointless to fight the linearity of the game. If you say something different you should get a different reaction. We might as we have just sit and watched the child in the beginning run from us instead of trying two different styles and giving him a staggeringly similar response.
2) Farming for resources on certain planets expanded the longevity if your playthrough. 2 and 3 did not have this and were finished quicker due to the casualized farming experience. They also provded a chance for you to gain exp in battles with terrestrial creatures.
3) Armor- The armor in ME3 is so weak its not even funny. In part one you found or purchased more potent armor than before. The resistance these bits of armor from (obviously from part 2) had was horrible compared to the last game.
4) The balance of party choice- Even though you were rewarded for sticking with one memeber in previous Mass Effect titles they all had a tactic which benefited a mission. In hindsight, its funny we are having this argument but I realized in Part three the only person I used over and over again was Javik. This was never so for me in other Mass Effects where I would switch from character to character to utilize their valuable points. Javik was like the ultimate partner which created a lack of balance in the crew.
5) Where are the side missions? The first mass effect had good side missions but part two had great side missions. This game had the least amount of playthrough time out of all of my Mass Effect titles because of it. My first play through of ME1 was about fifty hours, about forty+ for two ME2 and ME3 was like twenty hours (not counting multiplayer). I mean, I think we can all agree that ME3 was the vastly more streamlined experience.
In conclusion ME1 had issues, but it was more of an RPG than any of them will ever be. Even though two was my favorite one deserves a proper dose of respect and acknowledement because without the love and constructive criticism part one attained there would be no expectation for part two. It was the truer RPG experience. With part one you felt as if you were shepard with all the choices you made and things you did.
ME3 on Wii U was always strange and kinda pointless i dont see how the trilogy now being fully available on PS3 has any bearing on Wii U version of 3, someone care to explain that to me?? And who knows, the trilogy could still come to WIi U
I for one will be getting this, as I only played ME2 was going to get one on PC and still havent gotten around to buying 3
Khuutra said:
THe way that characters act to frame the cultures that produced them is a component of world-building. How interesting were the asari before we talked to Aria? How much did we really know about the way that the Alliance had changed human culture? Oh, I know, we can ask Parasini-san after she's done talking to Benezia-sama |
How much more were the Turians ever fleshed out? The Salarians? The Krogan? Even the Alliance never got more interesting in concept. The sequels showed us all the stuff we had been told in the first game (especially its Codex), but that's not better worldbuidling, it's better writing and execution. The only race that got better was the Asari, who went from space lesbians in skintight suits to space lesbians in skintight suits who sweep shameful stuff under the rug. That sounds dismissive, but that's mostly because I'm matching the tone of your argument; honestly, the Asari do win the Most Improved award.
Also, I don't understand what point you're trying to make with that sarcastic last comment.
|
Sal.Paradise said: 2 is pretty horrible for me. I had an amazing time playing the first one and would class it in my top 10 games this gen (I think). The narrative arc in ME1 is just unparalleled. What you discover, when you discover it, how the environments, characters and combat situations progress towards the finale is unmatched in the series, it feels very natural. The beginning of 2 just throws away all that momentum and important events and almost 'starts over' at the beginning, in a very contrived way. From there it ends up being a poorly connected set of individual character stories as you recruit members. Only a handful are compelling, and my BIGGEST gripe with the game is that, no matter the story, the situation, the unique characters or events, NO MATTER what, every damn one of these missions just ends up being an hour long slog through areans of chest-high walls and respawning grunts, Gears of War style. It's SO contrived and generic. Every damn character mission. And the big finale? The same damn thing. And I'm not even touching on the dumbed-down RPG elements. The less said about 3 the better. At least one of the scenarios was great. The rest... These are all just my opinions though, you may think very differently. Bottom line is, I absolutely loved 1, it took me months to bother finishing 2, and by 3 I was just watching it on youtube. |
I think I will like the 1 more
.
| S.T.A.G.E. said:
1) Speech (maxing out of speech) points was almost pointless. it only played into who lived and died. In Part 1 and 2 the RPG element of speech went a long way preventing wars, changing peoples opinions of you and more. In part three it didnt matter. Renegade and Paragon had some of the same responses and reactions as well. It was pointless to fight the linearity of the game. If you say something different you should get a different reaction. We might as we have just sit and watched the child in the beginning run from us instead of trying two different styles and giving him a staggeringly similar response. 2) Farming for resources on certain planets expanded the longevity if your playthrough. 2 and 3 did not have this and were finished quicker due to the casualized farming experience. They also provded a chance for you to gain exp in battles with terrestrial creatures. 3) Armor- The armor in ME3 is so weak its not even funny. In part one you found or purchased more potent armor than before. The resistance these bits of armor from (obviously from part 2) had was horrible compared to the last game. 4) The balance of party choice- Even though you were rewarded for sticking with one memeber in previous Mass Effect titles they all had a tactic which benefited a mission. In hindsight, its funny we are having this argument but I realized in Part three the only person I used over and over again was Javik. This was never so for me in other Mass Effects where I would switch from character to character to utilize their valuable points. Javik was like the ultimate partner which created a lack of balance in the crew. 5) Where are the side missions? The first mass effect had good side missions but part two had great side missions. This game had the least amount of playthrough time out of all of my Mass Effect titles because of it. My first play through of ME1 was about fifty hours, about forty+ for two ME2 and ME3 was like twenty hours (not counting multiplayer). I mean, I think we can all agree that ME3 was the vastly more streamlined experience. |
1) Is that a joke? If you don't have enough Reputation in ME3, you can't make peace between the geth and quarians, and that's just the start of it. The Reputation system in ME3 was much better than the zero-sum system of ME1 or the all-or-nothing system of ME2, because it allowed you to play the way you wanted while still being able to maintain choice-making.
2) You are the first person I've ever talked to who has defended the resource farming in ME1 and ME2. They are terrible. We are all better of for not having to deal with that insidious slog.
3) THe Armor in ME3 is highly customizable and functional. No it doesn't give you thirty-five different sets of armor to dick aorund with, all of which do mostly the same thing with one clear best; it allows you to set up individual pieces that give you bonuses according to your playstyle, so that the armor is actually meaningful (my Vanguard Shep runs +60% weapon damage at all times). ME3's armor system was the best simply because you actually had to pick your benefits and they actually affected your combat performance.
4) Javik is the ultimate partner because he is awesomely written, not for his combat abilities - though Dark Channel is phenomenal if you have any kind of biotics on Shepard, I'll grant you that. Each Shepard synergizes well with different teammates. In ME1, the key to winning on any difficulty is to bring along Liara and let her use Singularity whenever she feels like it.
5) The side misisons in ME3 were all over the place, though they often didn't feel like side missions because they were all delivered very urgently. ME1 and ME2's campaigns aren't actually longer than ME3's; you can finish ME1 in about 9 hours if you don't dick around and just go do the missions, and that's with the enormous bloat of the Mako sections.
That is the biggest problem with ME1 in terms of pacing: bloat. It (and ME2, to a lesser degree) is full of tedious bullshit that does not actually benefit the player, it only serves to lengthen individual playthrough time. ME3 cuts away a lot of that.
You still haven't addressed that ME1's writing, characters, worldbuilding, and combat are the worst of the series.
| ethomaz said: I think I will like the 1 more . |
I think you will. ME1 does an absolutely amazing job of introducing us to a strange new world and sweeping us as players along with it. Such a great experience.

| Khuutra said: We all look back at Garrus and think "He's so cool and funny, what a bad-ass" but none of that showed in ME1 at all |
Haha, yeah. He was such an earnest, well-meaning, stick-in-the-mud dorkball in ME1. My heart leapt when I caught up to him in ME2 and he had become the turian I always knew he could be.
ME1 laid a great foundation for things to come, but I really don't see how anyone can really think it's the best of the series in either writing (hey my names ashley n i hate aleins lolz! yay humies!) or gameplay (a footshot is just as good as a headshot!).
noname2200 said:
How much more were the Turians ever fleshed out? The Salarians? The Krogan? Even the Alliance never got more interesting in concept. The sequels showed us all the stuff we had been told in the first game (especially its Codex), but that's not better worldbuidling, it's better writing and execution. The only race that got better was the Asari, who went from space lesbians in skintight suits to space lesbians in skintight suits who sweep shameful stuff under the rug. That sounds dismissive, but that's mostly because I'm matching the tone of your argument; honestly, the Asari do win the Most Improved award. Also, I don't understand what point you're trying to make with that sarcastic last comment. |
The krogan, primarily through Grunt and Wrex, evolved beyond the point of essentially being klingon with ennui problems; we saw them as deeply self-destructive, almost savagely so, and their cruelty to each other and to other races was made much more clear in the second game.
The salarians went from being the smart ones to being products of a culture of meddlers whose short lifespans are reflected in shortened perspectives, where consequences in the long-term are necessarily viewed through the lens of their own superiority. Their hubris becomes very real in ME2 and ME3, where we see that they are repeating the mistakes of the krogan rebellions over and over, where their involvement in any situation translates to tautological expertise on a given subject, which necessarily grants them authority. They evolved into the very embodiment of cultural colonialism, operating on the divine mandate of their ideas of progress.
The turians are essentially space-Spartans, but at least they aren't all space-Spartans, and even that's a site better than a race of space-Cops
Asari were definitely the most improved, though. God, the tone that they were treated with in the first game - I appreciate it, you know? I do. I like that they're a send-up to the sexy space babes of the 40s-70s. God bless Karpyshyn for that particular bit of cultural nostalgia. But when it translated into specific characters it kind of all fell apart, didn't it? When Benezia is the best-written character of a given species - and I like Benezia, don't get me wrong - you have a problem.
And I just hate that particular conversation, with the Japanese honorifics, on a lot of levels. It's awkwardly written and makes no sense in the context of a universe with universal translators
badgenome said:
Haha, yeah. He was such an earnest, well-meaning, stick-in-the-mud dorkball in ME1. My heart leapt when I caught up to him in ME2 and he had become the turian I always knew he could be. ME1 laid a great foundation for things to come, but I really don't see how anyone can really think it's the best of the series in either writing (hey my names ashley n i hate aleins lolz! yay humies!) or gameplay (a footshot is just as good as a headshot!). |
Looking at the tone of my previous posts, it looks like I don't like ME1.
This is not the case. ME1 is really a very good game, even great. I enjoyed it immensely, and it's one of my favorite RPGs in a long time.
But the perspective of time and superior sequels really highlights the way in which the game fell short, and the idyllic way that a lot of people see the game doesn't make a ton of sense to me