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Forums - Nintendo - PSP vs 3DS specs rd1

TheBardsSong said:
MDMAlliance said:
TheBardsSong said:
Most 3DS games look worse than your average PSP game if you ask me. The only one I feel actually demonstrates the supposed power is Resident Evil: Revelations.


Do you even own a 3DS?  I own a 3DS, and I have 12 games for the 3DS.  I really disagree with you completely on that statement.


Yeah, I own a 3DS and PSP. The majority of 3DS games (pretty much excluding 1st party, Capcom, and a few others) seem to suffer from blurry textures and slowdown a lot. I also question if it's as powerful as the last gen consoles since PS2 ports (Tales of the Abyss, Metal Gear Solid 3D) have to cut visual details and still chug a bit.


I'm just going to jump in here because this is the first post I've seen after skipping to the last page.  Now, the PSP was a beast.  I've got like 25 PSP games running on my VIta (and I have a couple of PSP's, too) and some games look like they belong on the Vita.  But, like you, I have a 3DS and a lot of games.  The only game I've seen slowdown was certain parts of MGS3.  But, with MGS Peacewalker running upscaled on my Vita, it's OBVIOUS that MGS 3 on 3DS looks better and does more things than Peacewalker.  And that's with Peacewalker being designed specifically for the 3DS and MGS3 just being a port on.....

 

FUCK.  Just saw DieAppleDie's post.  That's what I get for just jumping into the thread.

*edit* "Peace Walker looked better in many ways than MGS3D and didn't suffer from the same kind of slowdown."  --I couldn't disagree with you more.  When it comes to the size of the environments, jaggies, the number of polygons in characters and enemies (with a couple of exceptions when it comes to the female characters like Paz and Huey), the things you can do in MGS3 like swim underwater, the cutscenes, etc., I think Peacewalker and it's tiny areas can't compete with MGS3.  It just seems like a scaled down version of one of the PS2's best looking games (w/ God of War 2 being the best imho).  MGS3 is a port that delivers pretty much everything the PS2 game has with a few additions (that don't really have anything to do with performance).



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VMEfinn said:
The definitive response.

- The 3DS has a option for bigger game storage than the PSP (Vita is Equal), but the UMD on the PSP is much less expensive, and makes it easier for programmers to make larger games without worrying about cost.

- The 3DS GPU in certain ways (not all) is much more powerful than the PSP, but no where as powerful as the Quad Core GPU in the Vita. That being said, it is not as powerful as the GPU Game Cube, nor is the GPU in the Vita as powerful as the GPU's in the PS3 or 360 as some are saying. On a small screen the GPU's like in the Vita look great, but put on a full size screen they are very poor. To put it into perspective the Vita pushes twice as many pixels as the 3DS, but about half the amount of the 360 or PS3 and thats at a measly 720p resolution.

- The CPU's is another not so simple area to compare as many processors these days are made to digital signal processing. Either way the 3DS is a lot more powerful than the PSP. However the Arm 11 based dual core in the 3DS is no where near as fast as the Arm 7 based (Strangely 7 is the upper end CPU at ARM) quad core cpu in the Vita. In perspective the 3DS CPU pushes about the same amount of mips as the Game Cube, and the Vita pushes about 2/3rds that of the 360 tripple core cpu. In reality though the AMD CPU's are a lightweight general purpose CPU, where as the Power PC based CPU's in the GC, 360 and PS3 are all designed for the systems and have much more brute force. On top of that the PP chips have multi pipeline hardware threading, bigger and faster data and address busses, big data cashes and more. Even then not all MIPS are equal, so for brute force processing the PP's are much more powerful. If you take into account the digital signal processing side of things then the 360 and PS3 would whoop the Vita's CPU's ass.

An easy way to sum the differences between the 3DS and Vita is to look for NVidia Tegra games on Youtube. The 3Ds is about equal to a Tegra 1, yet the Vita is essentially the same as a Tegra 3.

If I was to make a scale of consoles total processing power from PS1 (1%) to PS3 (100%) it would go like this.

PS1 > 1%
PSP > 8%
3DS > 18%
PS2 > 20%
Xbox > 24%
GC > 28%
Wii > 34%
Vita > 40%
360 > 95%
PS3 > 100%

Now the handheld that would have been cool in my opinion would have been a PSP 2 with PSP 2 hardware, a Tegra 2 CPU/GPU, Dual Analogue sticks, mini Blu-Ray drive and 960x480 touch screen. That way Sony could have simply converted a massive amount of PS2 games for the system. Yet it would have had the capability to run Android / IOS style games too. It would have sold very well and cost less to produce than the Vita. Did I say it would have had a zillion games too. Hmm


Great job on this!!!!  The question is not whether the 3DS is superior to the PSP (clearly it already is) but how much more superior it is!!!  I say that it is at least 2x-2.5x more powerful than the PSP.  In terms of gauging where the 3DS is compared to the GCN or Wii, I would say that it falls somewhere in between (powerful enough to satisfy my portable needs IMHO).  The arguement whether the system is hindered by the 3D is pretty much nullfied by the fact that PICA200 is meant to dispaly 3D images; hence partly the reason for why Nintendo chose them. This makes the system optimized for 3D use; and the only weakness I find compared to the Wii might be in it's dual-core ARM11 processor which is running  uderclocked anywhere between 266MHz or 350MHz; http://www.arm.com/products/processors/classic/arm11/index.php  .  Overall the system should be pushing anywhere between 15.3-22mil poly/s (PICA200 is running 266MHz) with most effects turned on.  This is a little bit better numbers than the GCN http://web.archive.org/web/20080222190252/http://www.segatech.com/gamecube/overview/index.html (it's at 12-15mil poly/s); but behind the Wii which should be pushing 24mil-30mil poly/s.  The thing the 3DS has an advantage over the Wii, is a more modern GPU that is able to handle better textures and shaders. 

 



@ Zoidberg

I think it's subjective. I find Peace Walker to have a more overall polished look, there aren't nearly as many blurry textures, it (obviously) runs at a higher resolution, AND the bosses are massive in comparison. Environments wise I will admit MGS3D has a lot more to render. The thing that bothers me most is that both games peak performance are 20FPS, and Peace Walker keeps a constant 20 even with massive bosses and explosions on-screen, while MGS3D chugs down to 12-14FPS just from close-ups or having too much grass/trees(which has already been cutback from PS2) on screen. I would blame 3D as the culprit, but it performs just as poorly in 2D.



lilbroex said:

The 3DS having modern shaders simply makes the application of shaders a lot "easier" and subsequently a lot cheaper, but it can't reach the level of shading that you see in games like the Rogue Leader, Other M, Darkside Chronicles, and Overlord Dark Legend.

I'll give you Rogue, but I'm not convinced the other 3 are doing as much shading as Revelations.



curl-6 said:
lilbroex said:

The 3DS having modern shaders simply makes the application of shaders a lot "easier" and subsequently a lot cheaper, but it can't reach the level of shading that you see in games like the Rogue Leader, Other M, Darkside Chronicles, and Overlord Dark Legend.

I'll give you Rogue, but I'm not convinced the other 3 are doing as much shading as Revelations.


"as much" is relative statement and and Revelation is visually doing more than it is technially. Its only using "2" texture effect(normal mapping and global lighting) and its mapping them globally over a everything. DE Extraction pulled off more than that(EMBM, Bloom, and HDR at the same time).

The enemies aren't even destructable. Also, if you look at the character and enemy modals up close, they're actual polygon counts are really low. Revelations is using what I call the Halo effect.



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lilbroex said:
curl-6 said:
lilbroex said:

The 3DS having modern shaders simply makes the application of shaders a lot "easier" and subsequently a lot cheaper, but it can't reach the level of shading that you see in games like the Rogue Leader, Other M, Darkside Chronicles, and Overlord Dark Legend.

I'll give you Rogue, but I'm not convinced the other 3 are doing as much shading as Revelations.


"as much" is relative statement and and Revelation is visually doing more than it is technially. Its only using "2" textures effect(normal mapping and bloom) and its mapping them over a large radius. DE Extraction pulled off more than that(EMBM, Bloom, and HDR at the same time). The enemies aren't even destructive because it would distort that monochrome normal mapping they were doing. Also, if you look at the character modals up close their actually polygon count is "reallY" low.

RE:R has HDR as well.   Also shelf shadowing, depth of field, motion blur (in 2D mode) and other surface shaders.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Viper1 said:
lilbroex said:
curl-6 said:
lilbroex said:

The 3DS having modern shaders simply makes the application of shaders a lot "easier" and subsequently a lot cheaper, but it can't reach the level of shading that you see in games like the Rogue Leader, Other M, Darkside Chronicles, and Overlord Dark Legend.

I'll give you Rogue, but I'm not convinced the other 3 are doing as much shading as Revelations.


"as much" is relative statement and and Revelation is visually doing more than it is technially. Its only using "2" textures effect(normal mapping and bloom) and its mapping them over a large radius. DE Extraction pulled off more than that(EMBM, Bloom, and HDR at the same time). The enemies aren't even destructive because it would distort that monochrome normal mapping they were doing. Also, if you look at the character modals up close their actually polygon count is "reallY" low.

RE:R has HDR as well.   Also shelf shadowing, depth of field, motion blur (in 2D mode) and other surface shaders.

Show me where it uses HDR. The rest are simple effects that have been done on the GC and Wii plenty of times on a much larger scale.

Just listing attributes categorically isn't saying much. Everything in Revelations was done in small areas with very little going on and other than the normal mapping, the effects were in very small volumes.



lilbroex said:
Viper1 said:
lilbroex said:
curl-6 said:
lilbroex said:

The 3DS having modern shaders simply makes the application of shaders a lot "easier" and subsequently a lot cheaper, but it can't reach the level of shading that you see in games like the Rogue Leader, Other M, Darkside Chronicles, and Overlord Dark Legend.

I'll give you Rogue, but I'm not convinced the other 3 are doing as much shading as Revelations.


"as much" is relative statement and and Revelation is visually doing more than it is technially. Its only using "2" textures effect(normal mapping and bloom) and its mapping them over a large radius. DE Extraction pulled off more than that(EMBM, Bloom, and HDR at the same time). The enemies aren't even destructive because it would distort that monochrome normal mapping they were doing. Also, if you look at the character modals up close their actually polygon count is "reallY" low.

RE:R has HDR as well.   Also shelf shadowing, depth of field, motion blur (in 2D mode) and other surface shaders.

Show me where it uses HDR. The rest are simple effect that have been done on the GC and Wii plenty of times on a much larger scale.

Point was you said it only used 2.  Doesn't matter if they've been used on GC and Wii.

As for HDR, just look it up in Google:  Resident Evil: Revelations HDR



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Viper1 said:
lilbroex said:
Viper1 said:
lilbroex said:
curl-6 said:
lilbroex said:

The 3DS having modern shaders simply makes the application of shaders a lot "easier" and subsequently a lot cheaper, but it can't reach the level of shading that you see in games like the Rogue Leader, Other M, Darkside Chronicles, and Overlord Dark Legend.

I'll give you Rogue, but I'm not convinced the other 3 are doing as much shading as Revelations.


"as much" is relative statement and and Revelation is visually doing more than it is technially. Its only using "2" textures effect(normal mapping and bloom) and its mapping them over a large radius. DE Extraction pulled off more than that(EMBM, Bloom, and HDR at the same time). The enemies aren't even destructive because it would distort that monochrome normal mapping they were doing. Also, if you look at the character modals up close their actually polygon count is "reallY" low.

RE:R has HDR as well.   Also shelf shadowing, depth of field, motion blur (in 2D mode) and other surface shaders.

Show me where it uses HDR. The rest are simple effect that have been done on the GC and Wii plenty of times on a much larger scale.

Point was you said it only used 2.  Doesn't matter if they've been used on GC and Wii.

As for HDR, just look it up in Google:  Resident Evil: Revelations HDR


No, what I said was that nothing in Revelations showed the 3DS as being superior to the GC or Wii. Please, don't jump into an argument if you don't know what its about. Context makes a huge difference.

It used 2 texture effects that were of technical note. Small scale special effects like depth of field and blur are not worth mentioning as they are. At least not for me. You'd never hear me trying to pass those things are as some sort of huge technical achievement.

I'm not looking for a report on the HDR. I want to see it. I want to see how much and how detailed it is. A lot of people try piont out that something simply exist buts not well it was done.

As everyone tells me, you are the one who made the claim about HDR lighitng. The burden of proof it on you.



lilbroex said:
curl-6 said:
lilbroex said:

The 3DS having modern shaders simply makes the application of shaders a lot "easier" and subsequently a lot cheaper, but it can't reach the level of shading that you see in games like the Rogue Leader, Other M, Darkside Chronicles, and Overlord Dark Legend.

I'll give you Rogue, but I'm not convinced the other 3 are doing as much shading as Revelations.


"as much" is relative statement and and Revelation is visually doing more than it is technially. Its only using "2" texture effect(normal mapping and global lighting) and its mapping them globally over a everything. DE Extraction pulled off more than that(EMBM, Bloom, and HDR at the same time).

The enemies aren't even destructable. Also, if you look at the character and enemy modals up close, they're actual polygon counts are really low. Revelations is using what I call the Halo effect.

Where was the EMBM in Extraction? The Necromorphs and the characters had a similar effect but I'm pretty sure it was specular mapping.

Other M has bumpmapped characters, but so does Revelations. Overlord had a lot of the same shadowing effects but lacked the texturing effects, and Darkside Chronicles seemed to simpler texture effects, (Specularity and EMBM as opposed to normal mapping) and lower amounts of surface mapping too.