By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - How much more powerful do you think the Wii U is compared to PS3/Xbox360.

Sal.Paradise said:
F0X said:

It's a clear genrational leap... from the Wii. Or are you really meaning a two-generational leap, going beyond 360/PS3? Such a feat is usually reserved for Duke Nukem, so that's not necessarily a reasonable expectation if we are to assume that Nintendo is remotely smart.

In all likelihood, Pikmin 3 did not begin full development until 2010 (it started pre-production in 2008) and by that time Nintendo may have already decided to move the project to Wii U. That would explain why Nintendo kept quiet about it for so long, and why we haven't seen any Wii version screenshots, unlike Kameo on Xbox.

Moreover, Pikmin 3 is a very nice-looking game. Have you seen any of the screenshots recently? "Poor visuals" my ass.

It certainly is a leap from the Wii, but we're talking about a leap from PS360 here. Different things. The rest of your post is speculation  

I only mean to point out the obvious differneces between the circumstances behind Kameo and Pikmin 3's development stages. I know that Pikmin 3 was announced way, way back, and that the title only had a small team over the early portions of development (straight from Miyamoto's mouth). It had to start full development in 2010, as the full team is composed of people involved in New Super Mario Bros. Wii. I also know that Miyamoto was considering Pikmin 3 for Wii U as early as 2009, when he referenced Pikmin as an ideal candiate for the hypothetical "Wii HD". Finally, we know that Pikmin 3 will make use of the Wii MotionPlus as its primary control method, so we can conclude that the project still retains at least some of the direction behind the original Wii version.

In contrast, Kameo was well into development when it made the jump to 360. After all, we do have screens of the Xbox version. Pikmin 3 wasn't likely as far into development as Kameo when it was switched to Wii U. As such, Kameo on 360 was likely a graphically reworked version, while Pikmin 3 was almost completely built from the ground-up for Wii U. As for why it isn't a clear step up from games on PS3 and 360, I believe the point of having it on the Wii U was really just to have Pikmin in HD (going back to Miyamoto's comments). And I think Nintendo achieved that goal.



3DS Friend Code: 0645 - 5827 - 5788
WayForward Kickstarter is best kickstarter: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1236620800/shantae-half-genie-hero

Around the Network

I think the point was to compare the same game built from the ground up on both platforms to show how large of a leap the 360 appeared even early on.



Sal.Paradise said:
HappySqurriel said:
Sal.Paradise said:

Can you give me sources on Kameo and Pikmins 3s development please? 

Remember, when I said: ..why doesn't Pikmin 3 look like a clear generational leap, as Kameo most definitely was? Hell, it doesn't even need to make the jump from SD to HD like Kameo did. It benefits from years of work and tools used in HD development that were not available at the start of this generation. Kameo didn't. So? 

You said:18 to 24 months to improve visuals of a nearly completed game will typically result in a better looking game than 12 to 18 months to develop a game from scratch from the ground up ...

Are you telling me you have sources on neither of these?

And don't even try to now argue that Pikmin 3 shows a generational leap anywhere near the size of leap that Kameo showed, because you don't have sources. It won't go well for you


Why doesn't Pikmin have a clear generational leap? Because there is no need to improve graphics for the game beyond its current level ...

Looking at the following games, please tell me which one is showing that it is suffering from a lack of processing power:

Pikmin 3:

 

You need to get used to the fact that 90% of games released from this point forward will probably see no significant graphical improvements over what was possible on the HD consoles because it is meaningless to the game, remarkably expensive, and time consuming.

Ok, so you DONT have sources and were bullshitting? 

Remember, the basis tot his argument is that you originally said: 

The two launch games for the XBox 360 that looked better than XBox games were Kameo and Perfect Dark, two games that began development before the XBox was released and were nearly completed before they were switched development to the XBox 360. The last 18 months of development of these games was primarily on improving their visuals.

 

As to why Kameo looked so good, and Wii U launch titles aren't showing the same generational lep.

So you were just lying about Kameo? 

Any answer to this? No? 

 

So are you claiming that Kameo and Perfect Dark did not begin development on the Gamecube as launch games?

Because that is a fact

Are you claiming that at E3 2004 Kameo wasn't demonstrated as a nearly complete game expected to be released at the end of 2004/beginning of 2005 and was then transferred to the XBox 360?

Because that is a fact

 

 

 

Now ANSER THE QUESTION, which of Pikmin 3, Rayman Legends, New Super Mario U and The Wonderful 100 looks like it is unable to meet the potential of its artistic style due to lack of processing power?

You, as well as everyone else here, sees my point; and that these developers could have a graphical workstation with 3 graphical cards to target and it is unlikely that they would be producing dramatically more advanced graphics.

Pikmin 3 did not demonstrate a 'generational leap' in graphics because it would be pointless and expensive to do so.



TheBardsSong said:
I think the point was to compare the same game built from the ground up on both platforms to show how large of a leap the 360 appeared even early on.

Except the 360 version was actually finished and the Xbox version wasn't. He cherry picked plain and simple. I'm not saying there was no generational leap, it was one of the largest we have ever seen. So it makes no sense for you guys to expect this out of the WiiU. Ninty isn't going for a massive generational leap and also doesn't have a jump in resolution to benefit from.



F0X said:
Sal.Paradise said:

It certainly is a leap from the Wii, but we're talking about a leap from PS360 here. Different things. The rest of your post is speculation  

I only mean to point out the obvious differneces between the circumstances behind Kameo and Pikmin 3's development stages. I know that Pikmin 3 was announced way, way back, and that the title only had a small team over the early portions of development (straight from Miyamoto's mouth). It had to start full development in 2010, as the full team is composed of people involved in New Super Mario Bros. Wii. I also know that Miyamoto was considering Pikmin 3 for Wii U as early as 2009, when he referenced Pikmin as an ideal candiate for the hyptothetical "Wii HD". Finally, we know that Pikmin 3 will make use of the Wii MotionPlus as its primary control method, so we can conclude that the project still retains at least some of the direction behind the original Wii version.

In contrast, Kameo was well into development when it made the jump to 360. After all, we do have screens of the Xbox version. Pikmin 3 wasn't likely as far into development as Kameo when it was switched to Wii U. As such, Kameo on 360 was likely a graphically reworked version, while Pikmin 3 was almost completely built from the ground-up for Wii U. As for why it isn't a clear step up from games on PS3 and 360, I believe the point of having it on the Wii U was really just to have Pikmin in HD (going back to Miyamoto's comments). And I think Nintendo achieved that goal.

Sorry, this is all just speculation about Kameo and Pikmin's development.

Happysquirrel made concrete claims and drew conclusions from them to use in our argument and then didn't provide sources. That's just not on.

I'm lost in a sea of posts in here. If you want to continue talking about Pikmin I'll do it on your wall. For what it's worth I think Pikmin 3 should be a lot of fun



Around the Network
Sal.Paradise said:
phenom08 said:

I know about your argument with happysquirrel. I was accusing you of doing this before. I guess I shouldn't have responsed to your and happysquirrel's post tree. That's why you think I'm accusing you of doing this in your argument with happysquirrel. What I am doing though is accusing you of cherry picking. Why not compare late gen Xbox to 360 launch games instead of a unreleased Xbox game to 360 launch game.

I will gladly do that in the other thread. Kameo is still a significant and noticeable generational leap over original xbox games

I believe even the OP in that other thread conceeded that I was completely correct about Kameo on 360 in that regard

Maybe in your opinion. He cherry picked a bad looking 360 game while you cherry picked a good one, so what's your point?



Sal.Paradise said:
phenom08 said:
Sal.Paradise said:
phenom08 said:

I thought it wasn't released on the Xbox? Is that what Kameo was suppose to be on the Xbox until it switched to 360?

Yeh that's correct. In fact if I remember they originally planned it to be a GC game, but of course they got snatched up by Msoft and that was that. They were developing for the original xbox but it had several delays and didn't release, and they eventually decided to switch to 360 where it was a launch title. 

Thanks for making your argument completely invalid then. You are comparing a unreleased Xbox game(Kameo for Xbox) to a fully released and upgraded Xbox 360 game(Kameo for 360). You are clearly cherry picking to prove the Xbox to 360 was a obvious generational leap. You are also forgetting the leap between the two was very large, and the improvement in resolution. The WiiU has none of those advantages so why would the launch games look signicantly better than late gen 360 games? On top of all of that those games were made for 360 and ported to WiiU.

Read what I just wrote :

What? No, I told happysquirrel I would have to post the Kameo pictures in here to show how GOOD the 360 launch game, Kameo, looked, as he was using a picture of a shoddy looking 360 launch title in an attempt to paint the rest of the launch titles as looking that shoddy.  

Nothing to do with the crap you're trying to pin on me. Try again. 

Not to medle in this discussion, but I'd like to say the following.

The pictures are invalid because it is the same as posting this:

Posting a beta image of an unreleased game and comparing it to the released one is unfair, especially if it also happens to be on a more powerful system.

To put it this way; the XBox (1) shot of Kameo is not representative of what the system could do, so it seems like the 'leap' was much greater than it actually was. When comparing it to Rebel Strike that leap of yours doesn't look too great anymore;

EDIT:

Well, I'm too late in posting apparently, but the point remains.



Sal.Paradise said:
F0X said:
Sal.Paradise said:

It certainly is a leap from the Wii, but we're talking about a leap from PS360 here. Different things. The rest of your post is speculation  

I only mean to point out the obvious differneces between the circumstances behind Kameo and Pikmin 3's development stages. I know that Pikmin 3 was announced way, way back, and that the title only had a small team over the early portions of development (straight from Miyamoto's mouth). It had to start full development in 2010, as the full team is composed of people involved in New Super Mario Bros. Wii. I also know that Miyamoto was considering Pikmin 3 for Wii U as early as 2009, when he referenced Pikmin as an ideal candiate for the hyptothetical "Wii HD". Finally, we know that Pikmin 3 will make use of the Wii MotionPlus as its primary control method, so we can conclude that the project still retains at least some of the direction behind the original Wii version.

In contrast, Kameo was well into development when it made the jump to 360. After all, we do have screens of the Xbox version. Pikmin 3 wasn't likely as far into development as Kameo when it was switched to Wii U. As such, Kameo on 360 was likely a graphically reworked version, while Pikmin 3 was almost completely built from the ground-up for Wii U. As for why it isn't a clear step up from games on PS3 and 360, I believe the point of having it on the Wii U was really just to have Pikmin in HD (going back to Miyamoto's comments). And I think Nintendo achieved that goal.

Sorry, this is all just speculation about Kameo and Pikmin's development.

Happysquirrel made concrete claims and drew conclusions from them to use in our argument and then didn't provide sources. That's just not on.

I'm lost in a sea of posts in here. If you want to continue talking about Pikmin I'll do it on your wall. For what it's worth I think Pikmin 3 should be a lot of fun


My claims are 100% supported by the known facts of Kameo's development and release.

Show me a screenshot from Kameo for the XBox that was released after E3 2004 ...



@S. Peelman Thank you he cherry picked and he knows it.



Sal.Paradise said:
F0X said:

I only mean to point out the obvious differneces between the circumstances behind Kameo and Pikmin 3's development stages. I know that Pikmin 3 was announced way, way back, and that the title only had a small team over the early portions of development (straight from Miyamoto's mouth). It had to start full development in 2010, as the full team is composed of people involved in New Super Mario Bros. Wii. I also know that Miyamoto was considering Pikmin 3 for Wii U as early as 2009, when he referenced Pikmin as an ideal candiate for the hyptothetical "Wii HD". Finally, we know that Pikmin 3 will make use of the Wii MotionPlus as its primary control method, so we can conclude that the project still retains at least some of the direction behind the original Wii version.

In contrast, Kameo was well into development when it made the jump to 360. After all, we do have screens of the Xbox version. Pikmin 3 wasn't likely as far into development as Kameo when it was switched to Wii U. As such, Kameo on 360 was likely a graphically reworked version, while Pikmin 3 was almost completely built from the ground-up for Wii U. As for why it isn't a clear step up from games on PS3 and 360, I believe the point of having it on the Wii U was really just to have Pikmin in HD (going back to Miyamoto's comments). And I think Nintendo achieved that goal.

Sorry, this is all just speculation about Kameo and Pikmin's development.

Happysquirrel made concrete claims and drew conclusions from them to use in our argument and then didn't provide sources. That's just not on.

I'm lost in a sea of posts in here. If you want to continue talking about Pikmin I'll do it on your wall. For what it's worth I think Pikmin 3 should be a lot of fun

Then this will be my last post.

You brought Pikmin 3 into the conversation. You compared Pikmin 3 and Kameo, and the burden of proof that their development cases are similar enough to be compared, not to mention used to make a case against the Wii U's capabilities, should be on you. I'm presenting the few facts we currently have about Pikmin 3's development and interpreting them how I see it. In fact I'm helping you, in a sense, by presenting research that can help you build you case.

Now, unless you can prove that Kameo and Pikmin 3 followed the exact same path in development, I don't see why you would bother mentioning Pikmin 3 in the first place.



3DS Friend Code: 0645 - 5827 - 5788
WayForward Kickstarter is best kickstarter: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1236620800/shantae-half-genie-hero