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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Apple maps is terrible.

MaulerX said:

This is a maps app for crying out loud. People use it because they NEED help to get somewhere. Not the other way around. Apple had Siri as an independent app in beta before they baked it into the OS. If they needed the data, they should have had this as an independent app in beta as well from last year. They made a blunder in their business/political decision making and they are paying for it.

Nowhere have I said that Apple handled this situation correctly. They should have offered users the option to use the service earlier and all of this appears to be terribly rushed. All I'm saying is this:

1. Given the way this software works, bugs of these nature are not only surprising, but entirely expected. If Apple irons this out in a few weeks, no one will care in the long term. Users will suffer in the short term with the expectation that in the long term, the service will be better than what they had before. If Apple fails to deliver on that promise six months from now, then I'll be the first one in line complaining about their ineptitude.

2. The Internet is blowing this WAY out of proportion. I haven't been misled by Apple Maps yet in the few days I have used it. On the other hand, I've been misled by Google Maps more than a few times. Maps is a new system. Just as I didn't jump on the Internet when I signed up for Google Drive the day it launched to complain incessently about the plethora of bugs in the system (there were plenty that screwed me over in the short term and it took a bloody week to upload my workflow to the system), I'm not going to pile on Apple for releasing a new service that isn't 100% perfect from day one. As a developer myself (web-based), I understand the difficulty of rolling out a project of this magnitude and I'm going to give Apple the benefit of the doubt, just as I do for Google, Microsoft, and other corporations that try to launch a new product in a new field (for them).

3. Apple had no choice in the matter. They HAD to replace Google Maps or they wouldn't get turn-by-turn navigation. Now that they've pulled the trigger and done it, they deserve more than a few days to create a system that competes with the ten year old Google Maps.




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rocketpig said:
Scoobes said:

That's not much of an excuse. The point is they had a decent map app and they've replaced it with an inferior product. Whichever way you look at it, it's bad, especially considering Apple's reputation of releasing superior products when this is obviously inferior to the competition. If anyone regularly used the maps app on iOS5 and has recently upgraded, they're essentially screwed for a few months whilst Apple play catch up with user data; data they should have gathered themselves or at least in a user beta test.

I don't see how you think that's not much of an excuse. User-sourced data requires users. That's all there is to it.

And A LOT of this is being overblown. I've been using the app for a few days now and it hasn't led me wrong yet. If 1 out of 100 (or even 1,000) searches is screwed up, most people aren't even going to notice a problem. The Internet has a habit of taking shit like this and blowing it wayyyyyy out of proportion.

Is this a good situation? Absolutely not. It's an ugly situation that is happening because two companies can't get along with one another. But in the grand scheme of things, I don't think it's going to matter in the long run. Apple will go their own direction with a Maps application that has the bugs ironed out of it (with navigation and whatnot) and Google will continue plodding along with their own software. At the end of the day, I suppose the question you need to ask yourself is "Am I happier with *temporarily* buggy software WITH navigation or was I happier with bug-free software WITHOUT navigation?" Either answer can be the right one depending on perspective.

It's a maps app that is inferior to the previous product. Some customers will have grown dependent on having a reliable, functioning maps app only to have an inferior, poorly tested product forced on them. No matter how you spin it, it was a horrible business decision. If they were going to make the switch, they should have done thorough beta testing (which can be done with volunteers, I'm guessing there are plenty of apple fans willing to do this, let alone employees) before release instead of forcing their consumers to test it for them.



Scoobes said:
rocketpig said:
Scoobes said:

That's not much of an excuse. The point is they had a decent map app and they've replaced it with an inferior product. Whichever way you look at it, it's bad, especially considering Apple's reputation of releasing superior products when this is obviously inferior to the competition. If anyone regularly used the maps app on iOS5 and has recently upgraded, they're essentially screwed for a few months whilst Apple play catch up with user data; data they should have gathered themselves or at least in a user beta test.

I don't see how you think that's not much of an excuse. User-sourced data requires users. That's all there is to it.

And A LOT of this is being overblown. I've been using the app for a few days now and it hasn't led me wrong yet. If 1 out of 100 (or even 1,000) searches is screwed up, most people aren't even going to notice a problem. The Internet has a habit of taking shit like this and blowing it wayyyyyy out of proportion.

Is this a good situation? Absolutely not. It's an ugly situation that is happening because two companies can't get along with one another. But in the grand scheme of things, I don't think it's going to matter in the long run. Apple will go their own direction with a Maps application that has the bugs ironed out of it (with navigation and whatnot) and Google will continue plodding along with their own software. At the end of the day, I suppose the question you need to ask yourself is "Am I happier with *temporarily* buggy software WITH navigation or was I happier with bug-free software WITHOUT navigation?" Either answer can be the right one depending on perspective.

It's a maps app that is inferior to the previous product. Some customers will have grown dependent on having a reliable, functioning maps app only to have an inferior, poorly tested product forced on them. No matter how you spin it, it was a horrible business decision. If they were going to make the switch, they should have done thorough beta testing (which can be done with volunteers, I'm guessing there are plenty of apple fans willing to do this, let alone employees) before release instead of forcing their consumers to test it for them.

And a new user-sourced solution is ALWAYS going to be inferior to an established user-sourced solution on launch day. That's just the nature of the beast. Should Apple have beta tested it? Yeah, I think they should have done so but that's hindsight speaking. I have no idea how much beta-testing they did with the development community before launch. Even if they had tens of thousands of beta testers working on it, that may not have been enough. A project of this magnitude requires millions of users, which makes beta-testing somewhat... difficult, to say the least.

On the other hand, users now have a navigation feature. In the short-term, is buggy software enough to overcome additional features? I don't know and that depends entirely on your personal perspective. For me, I now have navigation and the app hasn't misled me yet so it's a non-issue to me.




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

rocketpig said:
superchunk said:
iOS6 plain out sucks. No real improvements in anything and the Maps app has proven to be a disaster the world over. Not as much in US, but in rest of world its beyond bad.

However, Google will have a normal app for maps and probably navigation soon. Still sad people don't realize that Apple kept Google from putting its awesome navigation on iPhone years ago. I've always had perfect turn by turn navigation on Android since I started back in 2009.


Apple kept Google from adding navigation? I heard it was the other way around. Link, please.

PS. Maps is hardly a "disaster". It launched three days ago and much of the information is going to be user-sourced. Shit, the iPhone 5 just launched yesterday. Big projects often come with big bugs. If this is still a problem six months down the road, then Apple has a serious issue on their hands but when a company is launching a massive project that consists largely of user-sourced information, they need USERS to iron out the bugs and make the system work. And those USERS are going to need to spend a few months telling Apple where they've screwed up and they'll start farming data to change locations, names, addresses, etc. in the Maps application. I predict that in a year, no one is even going to care about this supposed "disaster". How do you think Google Maps became so refined? By Google hiring people to walk around and knock on doors? No, it's been millions of users sending them data over the past 8-10 years. Give Apple more than 72 freakin' hours to catch up.

edit: After searching around, I've only found speculation about the lack of navigation in Maps but all evidence points toward Google blocking the feature, not Apple. Google does not release API information for navigation in Maps. That would make it virtually impossible for Apple to add navigation without dropping Google Maps entirely. Unless you have evidence that Google (out of the goodness of their heart) created a Maps application with navigation and Apple blocked it from releasing in the App Store, I'm going to have to call bullshit on your statement.

In Android Maps IS Navigation. They are one in the same. You download Maps, you have Navigation. Search the Play store, there is no stand alone Google Navigation app. Google made a Maps only app for iPhone as per the contract with Apple. I think (with no real evidence) that Apple was just planning ahead for the day it had its own maps and needed something to make it seem as a good thing when it dropped Google. Considering that Google's Maps with built-in navigation also existed on Black Berry and I even think WP7... the only thing that makes sense is Apple blocked it.

However, you are right that it takes time to build a good map and navi software. Apple had all the time in the world to do so and it could have gotten robust data from a lot of sources that exist. Not like Apple didnt' have the cash. Additionally, Google did hire people to go "door-to-door" why else would they have street view?

Fact is, Apple short changed their userbase. They more than likely gimped Maps for years and then when they forced users to change (like always no choice), they gave them an inferior choice that is clearly broken. I bet Google already has a Maps/Navigation that will work on iOS but Apple hasn't approved it yet because it knows once it releases, everyone will use that even if it isn't built into Siri.

This is exactly why I never use Apple. They force their products and give you no choice. At least with Android IF a Google service is sub-par, I can easily choose from 10 more AND even make one of them my default.



superchunk said:
rocketpig said:

Apple kept Google from adding navigation? I heard it was the other way around. Link, please.

PS. Maps is hardly a "disaster". It launched three days ago and much of the information is going to be user-sourced. Shit, the iPhone 5 just launched yesterday. Big projects often come with big bugs. If this is still a problem six months down the road, then Apple has a serious issue on their hands but when a company is launching a massive project that consists largely of user-sourced information, they need USERS to iron out the bugs and make the system work. And those USERS are going to need to spend a few months telling Apple where they've screwed up and they'll start farming data to change locations, names, addresses, etc. in the Maps application. I predict that in a year, no one is even going to care about this supposed "disaster". How do you think Google Maps became so refined? By Google hiring people to walk around and knock on doors? No, it's been millions of users sending them data over the past 8-10 years. Give Apple more than 72 freakin' hours to catch up.

edit: After searching around, I've only found speculation about the lack of navigation in Maps but all evidence points toward Google blocking the feature, not Apple. Google does not release API information for navigation in Maps. That would make it virtually impossible for Apple to add navigation without dropping Google Maps entirely. Unless you have evidence that Google (out of the goodness of their heart) created a Maps application with navigation and Apple blocked it from releasing in the App Store, I'm going to have to call bullshit on your statement.

In Android Maps IS Navigation. They are one in the same. You download Maps, you have Navigation. Search the Play store, there is no stand alone Google Navigation app. Google made a Maps only app for iPhone as per the contract with Apple. I think (with no real evidence) that Apple was just planning ahead for the day it had its own maps and needed something to make it seem as a good thing when it dropped Google. Considering that Google's Maps with built-in navigation also existed on Black Berry and I even think WP7... the only thing that makes sense is Apple blocked it.

However, you are right that it takes time to build a good map and navi software. Apple had all the time in the world to do so and it could have gotten robust data from a lot of sources that exist. Not like Apple didnt' have the cash. Additionally, Google did hire people to go "door-to-door" why else would they have street view?

Fact is, Apple short changed their userbase. They more than likely gimped Maps for years and then when they forced users to change (like always no choice), they gave them an inferior choice that is clearly broken. I bet Google already has a Maps/Navigation that will work on iOS but Apple hasn't approved it yet because it knows once it releases, everyone will use that even if it isn't built into Siri.

This is exactly why I never use Apple. They force their products and give you no choice. At least with Android IF a Google service is sub-par, I can easily choose from 10 more AND even make one of them my default.

Read what I wrote again. Google does not release the API for their navigation system. That means Apple COULD NOT add navigation to their native maps app if it used Google Maps. The only option was to completely release control of the native Maps application to Google. So, no, Apple DID NOT block Google from adding navigation... The two companies simply did not cooperate to create a more functional Maps application. Whose fault is that? Hard to say because none of us were privy to those closed-door meetings. Apple didn't want to release a native app to a competitor, Google did not want to release their API to increase functionality. Sounds like a stalemate to me.

Apple obviously sourced as much data as they could get their hands on. After all, Maps was pretty accurate on launch day. But when you're dealing with shifting businesses and new content being added and subtracted every single day, you're going to need users to keep the system current. iOS6 had been downloaded 100 million times already. If this is still a problem in three months, I will be surprised and Apple will deserve more than their fair share of shit over the application.

And Google has announced that their iOS6 Maps application is not complete. Apple isn't holding anything back. There were rumors bouncing around but they appear to have been debunked, with Google hoping to release Maps "by Christmas".

And, again, Maps has been extremely accurate for me. Give it a few days to get on track. Apple has over 100 million users feeding them data and that number increases significantly by the day. If in a few months their Maps application still sucks, then they made a huge tactical error in doing this. In the short-term, I'll take navigation and map errors (that I haven't seen yet) over an accurate map and no navigation.




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rocketpig said:

Read what I wrote again. Google does not release the API for their navigation system. That means Apple COULD NOT add navigation to their native maps app if it used Google Maps. The only option was to completely release control of the native Maps application to Google. So, no, Apple DID NOT block Google from adding navigation... The two companies simply did not cooperate to create a more functional Maps application. Whose fault is that? Hard to say because none of us were privy to those closed-door meetings. Apple didn't want to release a native app to a competitor, Google did not want to release their API to increase functionality. Sounds like a stalemate to me.

Apple obviously sourced as much data as they could get their hands on. After all, Maps was pretty accurate on launch day. But when you're dealing with shifting businesses and new content being added and subtracted every single day, you're going to need users to keep the system current. iOS6 had been downloaded 100 million times already. If this is still a problem in three months, I will be surprised and Apple will deserve more than their fair share of shit over the application.

And Google has announced that their iOS6 Maps application is not complete. Apple isn't holding anything back. There were rumors bouncing around but they appear to have been debunked, with Google hoping to release Maps "by Christmas".

And, again, Maps has been extremely accurate for me. Give it a few days to get on track. Apple has over 100 million users feeding them data and that number increases significantly by the day. If in a few months their Maps application still sucks, then they made a huge tactical error in doing this. In the short-term, I'll take navigation and map errors (that I haven't seen yet) over an accurate map and no navigation.

ok, so I misread you and that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. However, Apple could have just let Google make the whole thing and just left it as a default app in the system. I don't see why they wouldn't have. No reason to not let that be under Google's control as its their apps. IMO, but definitely a stalemate.

There is a lot in Maps that is not user generated info and is just f'ed. Like navigation directions that force illegal turns or 3D maps that just suck bad.. i.e. hills that dont' exist etc.

My statement on Google's on Maps/nav app for iOS was just a guess. I hadn't read anything on when/if it will launch, but I'd figure Google would know this day was coming and been quicker to get an app out.

As for the map errors and what you'll take... I'm betting a TON of non US users would disagree with you as they lost all functionality with this new map app. Not just errors, but entire cities and countries.



superchunk said:

As for the map errors and what you'll take... I'm betting a TON of non US users would disagree with you as they lost all functionality with this new map app. Not just errors, but entire cities and countries.

Should Google have delayed the release of services like Google Drive? Should they have scrapped the project entirely? Because, after all, it was buggy as shit on launch day and it cost me hours of productivity as I tried to adopt the system and integrate it into my workfolow. It was basically useless to me (worse than useless, actually) and I PAID MONEY FOR IT.

But no, I accepted the fact that I was a launch day customer and that systems often release with bugs. I waited out the 2-4 weeks it took them to shore up the service's deficiencies and now, I'm a happy Google Drive customer.

Pretty much the same thing applies to when I upgraded to Mountain Lion on launch day (in retrospect, a rather stupid decision on my part). It was buggy, it pissed me off, I waited it out and now it's a pretty great OS. I've also had these experiences with EVERY version of Windows (which I've been using since Win95).

In short, shit happens. If this is still a problem in two months, then I'll start complaining. The long-term benefits of an Apple-created Maps application FAR outweigh the short-term negatives of buggy software.




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

thanks for the heads up about the disappointing inaccurate apple maps. google maps is one of the most accurate gps mapping systems available.



It's a big blunder, and Google Maps will remain king, but I'm sure Apple Maps will become more reliable than Bing ones quite soon. Heck, that steaming pile of crap, unluckily chosen by Facebook, still does a bloody mess with many streets in my town, and I don't live in a small unknown village.



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rocketpig said:
superchunk said:

As for the map errors and what you'll take... I'm betting a TON of non US users would disagree with you as they lost all functionality with this new map app. Not just errors, but entire cities and countries.

Should Google have delayed the release of services like Google Drive? Should they have scrapped the project entirely? Because, after all, it was buggy as shit on launch day and it cost me hours of productivity as I tried to adopt the system and integrate it into my workfolow. It was basically useless to me (worse than useless, actually) and I PAID MONEY FOR IT.

But no, I accepted the fact that I was a launch day customer and that systems often release with bugs. I waited out the 2-4 weeks it took them to shore up the service's deficiencies and now, I'm a happy Google Drive customer.

Pretty much the same thing applies to when I upgraded to Mountain Lion on launch day (in retrospect, a rather stupid decision on my part). It was buggy, it pissed me off, I waited it out and now it's a pretty great OS. I've also had these experiences with EVERY version of Windows (which I've been using since Win95).

In short, shit happens. If this is still a problem in two months, then I'll start complaining. The long-term benefits of an Apple-created Maps application FAR outweigh the short-term negatives of buggy software.

There is a difference between going from nothing to a new app that has issues and going from a fully functional map system to a nothing.

As for OS upgrades...yeah bad decision. I always wait for it to get at least one service pack. (talking Win of course)

I am a software dev. I know it happens and very large complex systems will have issues day one. However, in this instance you have a product that had a perfectly function application. You had Apple a nearly infinitely wealthy company that could have purchased 100% of its map data from mapquest or some other large company before launch. There are 100s of other scenarios where it could of at least matched what they were taking away from their customers with the forced removal of Google's maps. They could have rolled it out in chunks, i.e. US first, then other nations as their map data was within some degree of what Google had.

But they didn't. Even in the US there are serious issues like directions to Sea World San Diego that take you to the island across from the park. I'm not talking about the 3D, which has crazy imaging issues.. but real data like directions or simply wrong roads/maps entirely.

Apple f'ed its customers. It should have realized they were removing significant functionality for a very large part of their userbase and that should have been the priority NOT removing Google.