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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - How much/when will Microsoft drop the price of the 360?

starcraft on 19 January 2008

More than anything i'm just interested in what kind of effect a price drop will have on the sales of the two HD consoles. GTA IV will be SOOOO interesting. If MS drops the price AND really promotes the exclusive content, how many Sony PS2 owners will come over? Also, what about Europe? Some people here are predicting a bigger Europe price cut than in NA (and I can see the logic here), is there any chance that MS can actually push more consoles based on GTA IV in Europe than Sony can?



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

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Slimebeast on 19 January 2008

Some people here are clueless. I see lots of suggestions of a useless $50 price drop just before a GTA4 launch.

Forget that!

What did we (and MS) learn from last fall and holiday sales? That game library matters a lot, but price matters even more. Sony gained LOTS of ground by going to $400. MS were confident and only reacted by adding 2 games as packins during christmas season (which btw practically was to drop the Premium to an effective price of $300). Effect: MS only managed to sell "only" 1.25 million consoles in Dec, not the 1.5 mill even Pachter had predicted.

Next price drop will be $100 (or if they really like an odd number, it will be $279 for the Premium and thus only $80 off).

Time? Well probem is, GTA4 has not only been delayed, there's actually no clue about a release date at all! It could well be in june or even july. No way MS will wait that long.

By tradition price drops can happen in march. But if by late february, when it's time to announce the forthcoming drop, a more exact release date of GTA4 is known, MS might strategically split the 100$ drop in two: 50$ in march and another $50 a week before GTA4 release.

Mark my words: 100$* within the first ½ of the year. X360 Premium for $250.


(and all those naive people that today are so very impressed by the increased PS3 sales and predicting Sony will come 2nd this gen after all, they will all go: oops... damn, we're last again, Sony lost this gen)

*The Arcade SKU would obviously only drop $80



wiiforever on 19 January 2008

$75



TyePhoid_PAL on 19 January 2008

This year is going to be interesting. I agree with Madskills about two 50 dollar price drops this year. maybe a higher amount for Europe. They NEEd to get rid of RRoD asap. I just ahd my first and already i feel like warning my friend to be wary of getting a 360, but last years titles are worth the risk. Sony while lossing money are close to profitability on the 40 gig. however, they will have to act when Microsoft does.
Microsoft will need to play these price drops perfectly. Not only is the PS3 competing on par with the 360 it is doing so without a decent game library (few decent games, not none) a higher price, bad press. EU late arrival (March) and it isnt even selling well. Japan sales are very ordinary. If these big guns WKS and later FF and GT5 peform as they do then Japan will be making grounds. plus the catch up will be big hardware wise.
Microsoft cant just hope to hold them off with price cuts alone. They need their killer games out to stem the PS3 onslaught of quality household names.
At the end of the day they are competing against a brand as much as the quality games. Playstation is Playstation. When people can afford it and see a good game they WILL get one. Should be interesting



Ynwa.

Lord N on 19 January 2008
starcraft said:
More than anything i'm just interested in what kind of effect a price drop will have on the sales of the two HD consoles. GTA IV will be SOOOO interesting. If MS drops the price AND really promotes the exclusive content, how many Sony PS2 owners will come over? Also, what about Europe? Some people here are predicting a bigger Europe price cut than in NA (and I can see the logic here), is there any chance that MS can actually push more consoles based on GTA IV in Europe than Sony can?

 It's rather misleading to refer to GTAIV as a system seller. The last two sold well over 20 million copies combined, by they were released on a system that was already selling extremely well without them/had an install base that was much larger. What happened was the the PS2 moved GTA, not the other way around.

 Most people don't care about Xbox Live, much less DLC. Most of the PS2 owners from last gen either haven't bought a current gen console yet or have gone/will go the DS, Wii, or PSP.

 



 

Consoles owned: Saturn, Dreamcast, PS1, PS2, PSP, DS, PS3

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madskillz on 19 January 2008
Lord N said:
madskillz said:
Lord N said:
madskillz said:


MS is a very patient copy. The Xbox was just a trojan horse to get the 360 to the table. If it worked, cool - if not, they were expecting that too.

The big difference between the Xbox and the 360 is - the appeal and its dominance over Sony - for the time being. Sure, Halo 3, Mass Effect and Bioshock are out, but don't for once think MS has used its big guns yet. MS was the one who pushed for a later GTA IV date. Remember?

I am looking at this from a purely business standpoint. MS rarely - RARELY makes mistakes. That's my plan if I was running the MS entertainment division show.

For Sony to win, take the loss and force MS to counter. I would also sign tons of exclusive games to the system and get the games out, not delayed. One delay and our contract is null and void. Time is of the essence. I would rather win and leave on top or a close second than win by default.

 


I'd hardly call a lead that's only because of a headstart any kind of dominance.

MS doesn't make any mistakes?

-RROD, disc scratching, and various other hardware design flaws that were ignored and allowed to fester and worsen until they turned into PR nightmares.

-360 priced at double mass market price point from the beginning.

-Failure to drop the price in a timely and effective manner.

-Failure to make sure that the game library of the 360 was more diverse instead of the majority of its high-profile titles being shooters, racing sims, and sports games.

-


And yet, they are sitting close to 17M consoles sold, and easily overshadowing the progress of the original Xbox.

As far as MS mistakes, let's compare:

MS - RROD, disc scratching (which happens a lot when you turn your Xbox vertical or horizontal while the disc is playing), Windows Vista and ME - though in defense of MS, I never buy an OS until Service Pack 2 hits - and a few gaming misses

Sony's greatest hits - BetaMax, UMDs, Minidisk, ATRAC® music format, exploding laptop batteries, PS2 disk read errors and Super Audio CDs

Funny that you'd mention the 360 pricing ... it still got a ton of sales, even while being supply constrained for several months. There was also no need for MS to do a price cut - they were comfortable with sales for nearly 2 years and making profits, so why cut into those profits with a price cut? Sony did it within 6 months of launch because they were desperate for sales. And the lineup is very diverse - shooters, sports games, RPGs, driving games - even casual games.

Sony has to find a winning formula to make this race put them into the black ...

Citing Sony's failed proprietary media formats doesn't mitigate that MS does indeed make mistakes(big ones in some cases), which was my point to begin with.

Your second paragraph is so absurd that I don't even know why I'm replying to it. Tons of sales? That's real funny. After a year on the market, it had all of 6 million sales. Even this year, with a price cut and the release of its biggest franchise, it still only managed 8 million sales, and from the looks of things, it's never going to sell much more than that in a given year as the sales rate of a console is pretty much fixed after its second year. Its sales are moderately decent in one market while poor in the others. They weren't making any profits either, and I don't know what's going on in your head to make you post that. They had one profitable quarter, which was most likely due to Halo 3. The Xbox also had a profitable quarter when Halo 2 launched. Like I said, that lead it has over the PS3 is only there because of the earlier launch. The difference in sales between the two since the PS3 released is rather insignificant. Anyway, the point is that MS has really fucked up with the 360's pricing. The fact that it's still above mass market price point after more than two years on the market should tell you that.

As for the software line-up, like I said, the 360's most prominent titles are shooters, racing sims, and sports games. It has titles in those other genres, but they're really nothing to write home about. Basically every RPG attempt on the 360 has been an unmitigated failure as far as sales are concerned, and after two years on the market, it hasn't a single prominent platformer, action game, fighting game, or offstyle racer to its name.

MS has not improved its standing in the market at all. The 360 will end up in the same position as the Xbox, a distant, unprofitable second.

 


What I find most interesting about your entire post is - the lead between the 360 and the PS3 is growing. And to think the PS3 will claw back from being 7M+ down and overtake it is laughable. Can you tell me when in history was the Xbox ever have a lead over the PS2? Didn't happen, did it? Now that MS has the lead, it took Ninny less than a year to overcome MS. Why? It is a new way - well, actually old - for people to play video games (Nintendo had the Glove back in the 80s). It's lower price is attractive, and WiiSports sucks people into the world of gaming.

The PS3 offers nothing more, except an HD player built in, that will attract the average gamer. Maybe they will see the PS brand, but Sony has to find a cure or it will not rebound. Look at the numbers. Folks were claiming the PS3 was making the comeback - that will send the 360 packing ... but I don't think selling 12K really is sending someone packing.

You can say what you want - MS isn't perfect, nor am I a 360 fanboy because I see flaws in it too - but I just get a kick out of reading not only your posts, but diehard PS3 supporters who are totally convinced in blind devotion that it's the best thing since slice bread. Sorry, but I see this situation for what it is. The PS3 had better hope and pray brand and Solid Snake and GT5 will save their hides.

When Sony is beating MS by gobs, wake me up. Then I'll believe the PS3 is gonna hit second place. And oh yeah - wake me up when they are within 3M consoles of the 360. Until then, I'll leave you to your (and your partners) delusional state. Have a great day.



MrMafoo on 19 January 2008

@slimebeast

I disagree. There is one big difference between Sony and MS at the moment. While MS feels what this console has done so far is a huge victory (taking market share from Sony), I do not know if they expect to turn a profit off the 360. That might be in the plans for the next console.

What I expect (and virtually every unbiased analyst), is for Sony to overtake MS in 2009. So, with the future looking bright for Sony, they can lower the cost and ride out the storm, making money on the console in the backed (like they are right now with the PS2).

MS has to consider that if they lower the cost of the console, they are taking a hit that they might never get back. Do they take that loss and tack it on to what the next console has to do in order to make this console thing profitable for MS.

I mean, there is no way this console is going to make the xbox brand profitable (the 360 started with a 6 billion loss from the original). so if the next one releases in 2011, that will be a 10 year effort with no profit to show for itself.

Also, due to better design, the PS3 in a year or two will most likely cost a lot less to produce. At some point in it's life, Sony will repackage it (like they did with the PS1 and PS2) to reduce costs. The 360 right now has reliability issues that make it much harder to deliver a cheeper, yet more attractive form factor. The long term ramification of this needs to be thought about before MS sets a price point.

I am not saying MS won't lower the cost, I am just saying there are a lot more factors they have to think about before they decide to take a loss, yet again.



MrMafoo on 19 January 2008
madskillz said:

The PS3 offers nothing more, except an HD player built in, that will attract the average gamer. Maybe they will see the PS brand, but Sony has to find a cure or it will not rebound. Look at the numbers. Folks were claiming the PS3 was making the comeback - that will send the 360 packing ... but I don't think selling 12K really is sending someone packing.

You can say what you want - MS isn't perfect, nor am I a 360 fanboy because I see flaws in it too - but I just get a kick out of reading not only your posts, but diehard PS3 supporters who are totally convinced in blind devotion that it's the best thing since slice bread.


 A few flaws in this.

1. It's 13K, but more importantly, it's 10%. This week the PS3 sold 10% more. Let's see where that number goes. If that number keeps growing (and it has grown), the 360 is in trouble.

2. You are a fanboy, just not of the 360. You are VERY pro MS. You have made clams that MS has never made a mistake that was not minor... no one other than an MS Fanboy would ever make that clam.

3. Ok, yet again I have to say this (and I think I have said it to you before). In reference to the part of your post I bolded.  Exclusive content sell consoles. Period. If you think all the PS3 brings to someone living room that the 360 does not is an HD player, you miss the point of why anyone buys one console over another all together. Let's say this together three time shall we?

Exclusive content sell consoles.

Exclusive content sell consoles.

Exclusive content sell consoles.

There, let's hope you never forget that, and not say something as ridiculous as you just claimed. (the PS3 offers nothing over the 360 other than an HD player).

I mean, if that were true, I wouldn't own both of them. 

Edit: I updated it just a bit. And to drive my point home, what HD player should someone buy right now? I mean the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD when looked at from a hardware perspective are the same. Both play the same quality movies, why buy one over the other? Oh yea, Exclusive content.



starcraft on 19 January 2008

To the guy that stated that MS will have two $50 price drops in the first half of 2008....no.



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

smbu2000 on 19 January 2008
MrMafoo said:
madskillz said:

The PS3 offers nothing more, except an HD player built in, that will attract the average gamer. Maybe they will see the PS brand, but Sony has to find a cure or it will not rebound. Look at the numbers. Folks were claiming the PS3 was making the comeback - that will send the 360 packing ... but I don't think selling 12K really is sending someone packing.

You can say what you want - MS isn't perfect, nor am I a 360 fanboy because I see flaws in it too - but I just get a kick out of reading not only your posts, but diehard PS3 supporters who are totally convinced in blind devotion that it's the best thing since slice bread.


A few flaws in this.

1. It's 13K, but more importantly, it's 10%. This week the PS3 sold 10% more. Let's see where that number goes. If that number keeps growing (and it has grown), the 360 is in trouble.

2. You are a fanboy, just not of the 360. You are VERY pro MS. You have made clams that MS has never made a mistake that was not minor... no one other than an MS Fanboy would ever make that clam.

3. Ok, yet again I have to say this (and I think I have said it to you before). In reference to the part of your post I bolded. Exclusive content sell consoles. Period. If you think all the PS3 brings to someone living room that the 360 does not is an HD player, you miss the point of why anyone buys one console over another all together. Let's say this together three time shall we?

Exclusive content sell consoles.

Exclusive content sell consoles.

Exclusive content sell consoles.

There, let's hope you never forget that, and not say something as ridiculous as you just claimed. (the PS3 offers nothing over the 360 other than an HD player).

I mean, if that were true, I wouldn't own both of them.

Edit: I updated it just a bit. And to drive my point home, what HD player should someone buy right now? I mean the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD when looked at from a hardware perspective are the same. Both play the same quality movies, why buy one over the other? Oh yea, Exclusive content.


 If exclusive content sells consoles, well then I guess the 360 is looking pretty good since it just about OWNS the PS3 in that category. Even with GTAIV it has "more exclusive content".

On topic: it would be good for MS to have a $100 price cut just before GTAIV comes out, but I think they'll probably do a $70 or $80 cut to bring the premium down to the $270/$280-ish area. Maybe a $100 cut on the elite price?




starcraft: "I and every PS3 fanboy alive are waiting for Versus more than FFXIII.
Me since the games were revealed, the fanboys since E3."

Skeeuk: "playstation 3 is the ultimate in gaming acceleration"