What he is saying is that Nintendo has the same fans it ever had plus new ones. The people that bought RE4 or Rogue Leader etc are still there.

And I have to agree that 3rd parties dont even try. Look at the best looking GC games and then look at Wii games. COD on Wii looks inferior to Splinter Cell on GC when it comes to lighting effects etc.

They port the game to the Wii remove eveything the console cant handle and thats it instead of adding effects the "last" gen can handle they simply dont care enough and dont fill the holes they made.

I would have bought Resident Evil Dead Space or Dragon Quest but the fact that all we got were "shitty" rail spinoffs made me not buy a single game.

Another problem the devs/publishers have is:
If they give the Wii a chance they give it a single one. They port something (inferior quality most of the time) and if it does not sell 1:1 with the number of Wii consoles out there they drop the Wii support again. Wait a few years and come back. You have to give constant support to gain any trust/fans/consumers.

They sinply dont think enough.

Everyone knows the Wii has alot of "casual" gamers. So thinking your game can sell as much as consoles are out there is stupid. Then thinking people will buy your inferior quality games is also stupid. Then thinking the userbase that was treated so bad with lack of games etc will jump back on board just because you bring a game to the console is also stupid.


The cant simply come and think everyone will forgive them etc. They need to win over the comsumers again because of all the crap they released and all the bad ports etc. And everytime they dont release a game of at least average quality on the console they show the Wii userbase how obsolete the company is. The Wii users jump ship to other consoles or simply think "pfft I lived years without you noone needs your games"

The more they ignore the Nintendo consoles the harder it gets to win over the audience again. They have to invest money and lose money to win over the audience again but they dont want to. And then they complain because thats what they can do best.

Yes. This right here. You hit the nail on the head.

People keep trying to simplify this to the worst case scenarios they can think of but there is much to this.

There is also another aspect. Nintendo's platform is open and they generally do not show favoritism to devs like Sony and Microsoft do. Nintendo will let anyone release anthing as long as they don't find it horribly offensive. They off design their hardware to be easy to develop for. This is why I think Nintendo will be the best for new devs.

They can make something simple like Defendin the Castle and get 2 million bucks for it. How much do you think it cost to make that game? Those who make a good investment will find it rewarded more often than not

Of course there will always be competition and user preference where even if you make a huge effort,(Cursed Moutain, Tournament of Legends, Little King Story| Haze, Lair | Viva Pinata, Tales of Vesperia, Blue Dragon), if no one wants the game, it will not sell.

The environment on a Nintendo console is sink or swim by your own hand.

Overall, Nintendo is the best choice for new devs entering into the gaming industry.

Graph is missing the Color TV Game 6.

On a better console, you have the choice of making expensive or cheap games, it's all up to you.

So better console = better if not considering consumer retail price of HW.

I remember an article a while back saying that Nintendo is giving big incentives to indie developers to make games for the Wii U, I really hope that it's true because most creatives games this gen came from the indie devs. 

That is indeed true. They are making intro into the console market easy.

Also, indie devs are currently the best the big business dinosaur that is the gaming industry has to offer.

Ninendo can bring original games back to life with new ways of play. They are the only ones who can reviatlize the industry.

I think it's an arrogant presumption to say "devs need Nintendo". More like Nintendo needs devs, not the other way around.

Lets look at where the new developers who have actually made a name for themselves the last few years are coming from:

Media Molecule - LittleBigPlanet series, made their name on the PS3 thanks to investment from Sony

Rovio - Angry Birds has become a global phenomenon and turned this unknown studio into a global powerhouse. Thanks largely to iOS.

CD Projekt RED - Has brought attention to the fact that big time game development is no longer just a monopoly for devs in North America/Western Europe/Japan. This small developer from Eastern Europe made Witcher/Witcher 2 a hit thanks to Steam/PC market.

PopCap Games - Developer of Plants Vs. Zombies and Bejeweled has made a fortune through iOS/Facebook.

Mojang - Developer of Minecraft the massively successful breakout hit that was basically developed by 1 guy in his garage. This game has sold *nine million copies* and counting, including 3 million on XBLA in just 5 months or so.

Team Meat - Indie flash called Super Meat Boy. Became a surprise hit. Sony/MS encouraged them to make a version for XBLA/PSN and it became an even bigger hit. They declined to make this game for Wiiware because of Nintendo's restrictive policies.  Ironic since the game is inspired by Nintendo's own Super Mario Bros.

These are just off the top of my head as the big break out devs of the last few years. None of them needed a Nintendo platform. Where are the ones who broke out on Nintendo platforms? I recall High Voltage Software wanting to do a lot with the Wii and had plans for like 4-5 different games, but these were mostly canned after Conduit 2. The Little King Story developers and Marvelous also had big plans for Wii, but they largely have backed off the platform the last few years.

Steam and iOS are the true booms for indie gaming. The three console manufactures are honestly dinosaurs with their $10 licensing fee/copy model. Microsoft is the most progressive with XNA being affordable enough that the average garage developer could make a game. PS3/Wii dev kits are expensive.

1. If that were true then arguments that only Ninendo games sell on a Nintendo hardware(one you made yourself in this thread) would be invalidated. NIntendo made a profit even at their worst(the Gamecube era). They don't "need" the devs to survive because they're software will always sale.

2. You are using the greatest outliers as if they are the majority when they don't even make a difference. In fact from the begining, you have been pushing the extremes of every event as if they are the norm.

A handful of rare sucess story are just that. Rare success stories. The majority of devs in each of those market didn't have 1/10th of the success of those devs you keep throwing calls to.

When I say new developers that is plural. I'm not just talking about 1 or 2 rarities. I'm talking about dozens if not hundreds. They can find success on Nintendo's hardware where they would find it nowhere else. It will have the biggest userbase and thus the biggest range of possibilities. With the anti-piracy effort Nintendo is pushing, they are almost guaranteed sucess as a low cost.

Nintendo also pushes variety the likes of which that has not been seen on any other console or even the PC in recent years. The industry has become stale and needs variety. The features of teh Wii-mote and the Upad alone will bring life back to gaming.

A small investment can go a long way on a new console.

As I've pointed out, many indie games are doing wonderfully on PSN and XLA (and Steam, of course).  In fact, I would say the success of downloadable games has been the big surprise in the gaming industry over this generation.  Nintendo is the one late to that party.  Their fault, the developer's fault, a combination, doesn't really matter.

And, honestly, you've given zero reason why the Wii U would be a better platform than the others, especially given Nintendo's lag in creating a high quality online service.  Pretty much every reason you've given is just biased opinion, such as your false generalizations about 360/PS3 owners not having a diverse taste in gaming.

Can Nintendo improve its online infrastructure and offer a great platform for indie games?  Sure.  But are they the only ones who can "reviatlize the industry"?  Sorry, that's already started, and Nintendo has realized that they need to catch up.

Nintendo has been ahead for 6 years. They are bringing in the new world.

I don't see how they need to catch up when there is nothing but open seas ahead.

Sony and Microsoft's lack of ingenuity are whats killing the industry and they have made it clear that they will not change their ways from repetition and copying. They have almost completely stalled the PC gaming industry with developers only making PS3/360 games and then porting them to the PC. The PS3 and 360 pushed PC gaming backwards from where it was in 2007(the original Crysis)

I have made up nothing. The sells on the PS3 and 360 prove my point.

Nintendo already has a great platform for indie games. Haven't you been reading the devs interviews? There are at least dozen indie devs developing for the Wii U as we type with a new one coming on board every week. Even IOS/Android/Facebook devs are coming aboard.

The revolution has already started.

It's called iOS/Android and Steam.

If I'm an indie dev why should I pay $10-50k for a dev kit and then on top of that give you $10 for every copy of every game I sell?

Today is truly a golden age for indie devs where you can as a garage developer come up with an idea and bring that idea to an audience of millions.

Sony/MS/Nintendo honestly from an indie developer POV? F*ck 'em. Their business model is horribly outdated.

Look at iOS vs. 3DS eShop, most devs ignore Nintendo like the plague. They don't need Nintendo. Its far cheap to get a game up and running on iOS.

Nintendo is going to be one scrambling to try and improve things now because they've seen (probably to their horror) the rise of the iOS market has completely taken away their Brain Training/Nintendogs audience.

Nintendo makes great games, but painting them as some messiah for original game content is laughable. What new studios has Nintendo invested in? What new IPs have they let any new studio work on? At least Sony invests a lot of in new studios (Media Molecule and so on) and lets them work on new, original IPs, not sequels/spinoffs to the same 7-8 franchises over and over (and over) again.