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Forums - Nintendo - Zelda Undertracked

the_dengle said:

I never hear people using this kind of argument to suggest that Uncharted should support Move or that Halo should support Kinect. Motion controls worked for Skyward Sword, and they'll work even better for the next game. I don't want the dev team to be hung up on the question "can we also do this with traditional controls?" every time they make a new gameplay mechanic or enemy type. Especially because eventually the answer will be "no," and then the team is stifling their creative impulses for the sake of conformity.

Problem is it didn't work, and the tech is not fully ready. Might as well let people decide what they want to use until the tech is truly compelling. I played the game and as far as I was I was still struggling with the controls and found them uninteresting.

Uncharted and Halo don't have that problem, only games with motion controls do.



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They actually need to ship more copies. I tried to buy it new, but couldn't find a new copy, so just bought it pre-owned.



happydolphin said:
the_dengle said:

I never hear people using this kind of argument to suggest that Uncharted should support Move or that Halo should support Kinect. Motion controls worked for Skyward Sword, and they'll work even better for the next game. I don't want the dev team to be hung up on the question "can we also do this with traditional controls?" every time they make a new gameplay mechanic or enemy type. Especially because eventually the answer will be "no," and then the team is stifling their creative impulses for the sake of conformity.

Problem is it didn't work, and the tech is not fully ready. Might as well let people decide what they want to use until the tech is truly compelling. I played the game and as far as I was I was still struggling with the controls and found them uninteresting.

Uncharted and Halo don't have that problem, only games with motion controls do.

it worked very well actually not perfectly but very well if nothing interfered with your WiiMote

the only problem I found was recalibrating the pointer other than that I never had to once recalibrate the the Wiimote the way you do when you start the game



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Roma said:

it worked very well actually not perfectly but very well if nothing interfered with your WiiMote

the only problem I found was recalibrating the pointer other than that I never had to once recalibrate the the Wiimote the way you do when you start the game

An interesting post by Archbrix: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4758608



Hmm... so this is how much longer it takes for someone to claim a Nintendo game is under tracked.

Good to know.

Generally you see this kind of complaint 2-3 months in, not 9 months in.



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happydolphin said:
Roma said:

it worked very well actually not perfectly but very well if nothing interfered with your WiiMote

the only problem I found was recalibrating the pointer other than that I never had to once recalibrate the the Wiimote the way you do when you start the game

An interesting post by Archbrix: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4758608

At least the swordplay should stay, I found it to work very well. At first I was amazed at how accurate the sword followed my movement, it's almost perfectly exact. It really adds to the combat also, I found regular enemies and bosses too to be a lot more challenging than in traditional 'button-mashing' games. I hope they come with an upgraded version of the Wiimote eventually, with even better accuracy.

I do agree with Mr. Miyamoto, and well, you, on the subject of perfection. There were some things in Skyward Sword's motion control that were either unnecessary (the flying, the swimming), or not yet 'streamlined' (enemy reactions to motion, the bomb-rolling, the menu-systems). I indeed hope they can improve everything a lot.

Personally I think they will come up with a way to use both Wiimote and the GamePad together. It's a difficult subject, on the one hand you have the innovations made in Skyward Sword on which you would want to build, on the other you have the GamePad which is something integral to the WiiU system. If they won't find a way to use both peripherals simultaniously, and they end up with a 'control-choice', maybe they could find a way to emulate the motion aspect with the second control stick; it would control the sword. Though I don't think it would be very easy to realize or for gamers to control, it's basically impossible to use a traditional system and a motion system. That would require serious doubling of code and models and altering of puzzles, essentially creating two games.

Lastly, in general;

I'd like to say that Skyward Sword's mediocre (they're not bad, just mediocre) sales as it would seem are not all to blame on motion control imput. There are a lot of parallels with Majora's Mask on the N64. Like it, Skyward Sword was released at the end of a console's life when the successor was already announced and required an add-on or a newer controller. In that sense it was kind of expected, but I would have liked to see it reach 5m.

Besides, in reality, it's probably way higher than 3.4m anyway. Today I found the ultimate proof in a gamestore. It is impossible the games on shelves today are still from the very first print; I saw new ones with new box-art! It must be above Nintendo's december shipped units by now.



teigaga said:
the_dengle said:
teigaga said:
I'm a massive zelda fan and still haven't bought it. I wasn't impressed by some of the things I saw (no cohesive overworld) and other games took priority last winter, mainly Skyrim...

Instead I've decided to buy it when I get my wii U, alongside mario galaxy 2 and pikmin 3.

The overworld is completely connected. Functionally there is virtually no difference between going up to the sky to drop down into a different area and going through a hub area like Hyrule Field. The disconnect exists only in your mind.

Since you can go up from and drop down to a number of different points, the sky also functions as a sort of fast-travel -- you can go up and immediately drop back down into another area of the region you were already in. It takes a bit longer than playing a tune on your ocarina, but the drop points are much more useful than, say, warping into the middle of the Fire Temple or the Forest Meadow.

Cohesive is probably not the word i should have used. But from looks alone, the sky mechanic removes a sense of adventure. Its doesn't look anywhere as engaging as transversing hyrule by foot/horse back or even by boat like in Wind Waker. Many of my favourite past times in previous Zelda games have actually been the sections between temples, and the more linear means of travel doesn't sound like it will enhance those sections. 

Anyway, thats just one a few things which put me off the game, the second being the FPS sections but I'm sure I'll love the game regardless. Just waiting for a Wii U launch date and price now

Honestly, I have always been disappointed with the 3D games' hubs.  Growing up on Legend of Zelda, and more to the point A Link To The Past, the hub world didn't seem like that, it seemed like an integration with the temples themselves.  It was one, long continuous adventure.  In the 3D games, the different sections feel disjointed and individualized.  I don't think anything demonstrates this better than the Gerudo Desert in the various games.  Ocarina was just as guilty of this feeling as any other.  I want the next zelda games to feel like they contain just one giant, continuous world, not a loosely connected series of locations.

Skyward sword was by far the worst offender of this feeling of disconnect too.  And the hub area was kind of devoid of any motivation to explore.  "Look, another flying rock, okay, I got more rupees I will never spend"

Still loved the game though, some truly great boss battles.



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S.Peelman said:

At least the swordplay should stay, I found it to work very well. At first I was amazed at how accurate the sword followed my movement, it's almost perfectly exact. It really adds to the combat also, I found regular enemies and bosses too to be a lot more challenging than in traditional 'button-mashing' games. I hope they come with an upgraded version of the Wiimote eventually, with even better accuracy.

I do agree with Mr. Miyamoto, and well, you, on the subject of perfection. There were some things in Skyward Sword's motion control that were either unnecessary (the flying, the swimming), or not yet 'streamlined' (enemy reactions to motion, the bomb-rolling, the menu-systems). I indeed hope they can improve everything a lot.

Personally I think they will come up with a way to use both Wiimote and the GamePad together. It's a difficult subject, on the one hand you have the innovations made in Skyward Sword on which you would want to build, on the other you have the GamePad which is something integral to the WiiU system. If they won't find a way to use both peripherals simultaniously, and they end up with a 'control-choice', maybe they could find a way to emulate the motion aspect with the second control stick; it would control the sword. Though I don't think it would be very easy to realize or for gamers to control, it's basically impossible to use a traditional system and a motion system. That would require serious doubling of code and models and altering of puzzles, essentially creating two games.

Lastly, in general;

I'd like to say that Skyward Sword's mediocre (they're not bad, just mediocre) sales as it would seem are not all to blame on motion control imput. There are a lot of parallels with Majora's Mask on the N64. Like it, Skyward Sword was released at the end of a console's life when the successor was already announced and required an add-on or a newer controller. In that sense it was kind of expected, but I would have liked to see it reach 5m.

Besides, in reality, it's probably way higher than 3.4m anyway. Today I found the ultimate proof in a gamestore. It is impossible the games on shelves today are still from the very first print; I saw new ones with new box-art! It must be above Nintendo's december shipped units by now.

Makes sense.



happydolphin said:
the_dengle said:

I never hear people using this kind of argument to suggest that Uncharted should support Move or that Halo should support Kinect. Motion controls worked for Skyward Sword, and they'll work even better for the next game. I don't want the dev team to be hung up on the question "can we also do this with traditional controls?" every time they make a new gameplay mechanic or enemy type. Especially because eventually the answer will be "no," and then the team is stifling their creative impulses for the sake of conformity.

Problem is it didn't work, and the tech is not fully ready. Might as well let people decide what they want to use until the tech is truly compelling. I played the game and as far as I was I was still struggling with the controls and found them uninteresting.

Uncharted and Halo don't have that problem, only games with motion controls do.

Cool story, too bad like 99% of professional critics disagree with you. It's a drag that you were still struggling. I have a friend that couldn't really get it right, either. I know it definitely feels like it's the game at fault, but either you just haven't "gotten" it yet or you simply don't want to. It took me a few minutes to adjust and then worked great for me the whole way through. My copy of the game is not different from yours.

Games with traditional controls can and do have unresponsive controls. It's a sign of a poorly developed game. Good thing Skyward Sword's controls work beautifully.



the_dengle said:

Cool story, too bad like 99% of professional critics disagree with you. It's a drag that you were still struggling. I have a friend that couldn't really get it right, either. I know it definitely feels like it's the game at fault, but either you just haven't "gotten" it yet or you simply don't want to. It took me a few minutes to adjust and then worked great for me the whole way through. My copy of the game is not different from yours.

Games with traditional controls can and do have unresponsive controls. It's a sign of a poorly developed game. Good thing Skyward Sword's controls work beautifully.

It's especially too bad when I posted an article right in this thread, straight from the horse's mouth basically proving what I was saying -> http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4759034. Goes to show your commitment to the topic.