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Forums - General - World's richest woman says poor should have less fun, work harder. Calls for lower minimum wage and tax cuts

Immortal said:
HappySqurriel said:
Its insensitive and not politically correct but it is not inherently wrong ...

While becoming "Bill Gates Rich" involves a lot of exceptional things to line up for you, the basic process of climbing the economic ladder involves showing up, doing the work that is required of you, and trying to get along with your co-workers/other students and boss/teacher.

Anyone can end up being "poor" for a period of their life due to misfortune, but almost no one stays "poor" for a long period of time without their decisions and attitude playing a major role in it.
Certainly we all may "fail" in life but the difference between those who are successful and those who are not is often based on who tries again. There is a long list of successful people who were successful simply because they were willing to fail more than anyone else.

We would mock a 40 year old man who never had a girlfriend who made up countless excuses why he never put any effort into attracting women and yet deserved to be with a "perfect 10", and yet we completely tolerate people making similar excuses why they never put any effort into their career but deserve to be wealthy.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but do you really have any evidence for this? I mean, this is the normal right-wing argument; the poor are poor because they don't work hard enough or something to this effect. The general leftist response is either that a) they do work hard and the system is rigged to make sure they get nowhere while doing so or b) they don't work hard because they have experienced no benefit from working hard and have stopped bothering.

Idealistically, I'd like to go with your rhetoric since the idea seems to be that people are the masters of their own fate and that we aren't completely bound by circumstance, but are you entirely convinced that's the reality of the situation in general?

For your second paragraph, the liberal answer would probably be that few poor people are in the situation you described and that the majority put effort into their career and still get nowhere, rather giving them something of a right to complain about being poor.

Actually, in the US at least, most people will live and die in the same social and financial status in which they were born.  Why?  Mostly because of the differences in education.  Education level is close to being a hard-cap on how far up most people can climb and how much money they can make.  A person who begins their education in a poor, apathic school system is at an automatic disadvantage from the very beginning.  In effect, for the majority, the amount their parents can spend on education will determine that person's own professional success.

In some cases, education is also used as a sorting tool, in which it takes the place of "classism."  Want to keep the riff-raff out?  Throw up a "Bachelor's Degree Only" roadblock.  I've seen quite a few of those, with no major listed.

Hard work is not synonymous with success.  The wealth your family holds when your a child is a much bigger factor.

 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/us/harder-for-americans-to-rise-from-lower-rungs.html?pagewanted=all



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crissindahouse said:
superchunk said:
There's nothing really wrong with what she said and I'm not rich.

I came from very poor background... i.e homeless a couple times. I worked my ass off as did my wife. We both now have Master level educations and a family income of six figures USD.

During college I did not go out and party each night/weekend, I did not join a dumb ass frat house.. don't need to pay to have friends... instead I worked 40hrs a week at retail and busted my ass in a computer lab.

Worked hard early to play more later. :)

yeah but that wouldn't work if everyone would do that. not everyone can work as whatever you do, there are only limited ressources for something you can make good money with. it's not as if everyone on this planet could open an own company to make some money or that everyone could work for a company at a postion to make enough money. there doesn't come money from nowhere for everyone and it's not as if there wouldn't be still the jobs people don't get enough money for which the same amount of people have to do like they do nowadays. we don't have robots who can do all the low paid jobs on this planet, with you who doesn't have to do the low paid jobs anymore, there is someone else who has to do it now instead of you.

Anyone who actually tries can and if you choose not to then you should be happy with your choices. Your life is what you make it.



MrBubbles said:
well...she makes a couple valid points. often its the poorest who smoke and drink the most, who would be much better off if they didnt smoke and drink. its amazing how many people on welfare can manage to spend one to two hundred dollars a month on cigarettes.

Ever consider that the reason a lot of poorer people smoke and drink is to try and deal with the fact that they're living from hand to mouth each month, praying that nobody gets sick and ends up having to pay a medical bill that they won't be able to afford or hoping that nothing will break down that they have no money to replace? Deal with that sort of stress day in and day out, unable to move out of your social situation because you can't afford the educational training to get you a piece of paper that tells you you're officially more intelligent than when you went in, then you can probably start judging. I agree in that smoking and drinking shouldn't be viable to those who can't afford to eat, but stress does things to you.

And as to the original post...

Just another rich bag of tainted fluids that thinks she knows anything about anyone or anything other than the world that ends at the tip of her nose. Take away her inherited wealth and she might be the person who sits behind the counter at a gas station, hating their life and snapping at people. Nobody wealthy ever thinks like that, though. I suppose a little leeway should be given, as this woman has been obviously been born into wealth and knows nothing else. Chances are she'll never know anything else, because rich people usually have methods of keeping themselves rich even in bad times. She doesn't have a damn clue, doesn't want a damn clue and the blinders are just fine with her.



MrBubbles said:
well...she makes a couple valid points. often its the poorest who smoke and drink the most, who would be much better off if they didnt smoke and drink. its amazing how many people on welfare can manage to spend one to two hundred dollars a month on cigarettes.

i assume this "lady" has some business sense at least. she inherited the company and it was losing money at the time. the prices did shoot up in her favour, but i gather it takes some competency to run such a business. it doesnt make it not immensely hypocritical to tell people to work harder when you yourself had such a leg up as inheriting a very large mining company, of course :P

If you feel like you have no future, you're going to indulge for today. It's quicker to get satisfaction from a bottle of jack daniels than it is from a prosperous small business (and with far more guarantees on the jack daniels route, whereas so much of success is luck anyway)

Things like this make me want to commit violent acts, honestly. Rich folk who inherited mineral wealth talking down to me while sitting around on their high horses and building the system that is making sure that i have no future. If things continue as they are, she'll face the mob one day, and all the condescencion in the world won't save her.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Also this is not a new phenomenon. The distribution of wealth has always been of this proportion. 2% people people controlling 98% of the wealth and rest of the 98% fighting and competing for that 2%. Before the kings and queens had the money and you could not question them as you ended up dead. Now you can question them somewhat but can't do much about it.

Just make enough to live comfortable and retire in peace. Wealthy people don't have monopoly over happiness. They have everything but seem miserable and anxious all the time.



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This is coming from a woman who inherited her wealth. LOL



Maybe she is not using the right words but There is some truth in what she is saying. In my country poor families have and average of 4 to 5 childs and is really strange to find a rich family with more than 2 childs. Them They ask the government for help when They did not took the time to plan their future first and have the kids later.



superchunk said:
crissindahouse said:
superchunk said:
There's nothing really wrong with what she said and I'm not rich.

I came from very poor background... i.e homeless a couple times. I worked my ass off as did my wife. We both now have Master level educations and a family income of six figures USD.

During college I did not go out and party each night/weekend, I did not join a dumb ass frat house.. don't need to pay to have friends... instead I worked 40hrs a week at retail and busted my ass in a computer lab.

Worked hard early to play more later. :)

yeah but that wouldn't work if everyone would do that. not everyone can work as whatever you do, there are only limited ressources for something you can make good money with. it's not as if everyone on this planet could open an own company to make some money or that everyone could work for a company at a postion to make enough money. there doesn't come money from nowhere for everyone and it's not as if there wouldn't be still the jobs people don't get enough money for which the same amount of people have to do like they do nowadays. we don't have robots who can do all the low paid jobs on this planet, with you who doesn't have to do the low paid jobs anymore, there is someone else who has to do it now instead of you.

Anyone who actually tries can and if you choose not to then you should be happy with your choices. Your life is what you make it.


In the world that we live in there are plenty of talented people. The way the money is spread out amongst the top its not always the honest people who make it to the top. Remember that. There are plenty of lawyers, doctors, scientists and other who are expected to get high pay but are out of the job just as any other person. In this generation the term "hustle" has to be used because its now about who you know rather than how good you really are.



Immortal said:
HappySqurriel said:
Its insensitive and not politically correct but it is not inherently wrong ...

While becoming "Bill Gates Rich" involves a lot of exceptional things to line up for you, the basic process of climbing the economic ladder involves showing up, doing the work that is required of you, and trying to get along with your co-workers/other students and boss/teacher.

Anyone can end up being "poor" for a period of their life due to misfortune, but almost no one stays "poor" for a long period of time without their decisions and attitude playing a major role in it.
Certainly we all may "fail" in life but the difference between those who are successful and those who are not is often based on who tries again. There is a long list of successful people who were successful simply because they were willing to fail more than anyone else.

We would mock a 40 year old man who never had a girlfriend who made up countless excuses why he never put any effort into attracting women and yet deserved to be with a "perfect 10", and yet we completely tolerate people making similar excuses why they never put any effort into their career but deserve to be wealthy.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but do you really have any evidence for this? I mean, this is the normal right-wing argument; the poor are poor because they don't work hard enough or something to this effect. The general leftist response is either that a) they do work hard and the system is rigged to make sure they get nowhere while doing so or b) they don't work hard because they have experienced no benefit from working hard and have stopped bothering.

Idealistically, I'd like to go with your rhetoric since the idea seems to be that people are the masters of their own fate and that we aren't completely bound by circumstance, but are you entirely convinced that's the reality of the situation in general?

For your second paragraph, the liberal answer would probably be that few poor people are in the situation you described and that the majority put effort into their career and still get nowhere, rather giving them something of a right to complain about being poor.

Bingo. I mean, some people are just lazy, bad people (but i find that those people tend to be evenly distributed across all walks of life regardless of race/religion/economic status, like this woman who represents in her strata the same type of lazy good-for-nothing as the guy on welfare who keeps trying to scam Italian Ice off me in my job), but a lot of people are well-meaning, but have been beaten down into nihilism. Tasting the bitterness of the employment system since i've graduated (and bear in mind i'm only 3.5 months out of college, and already bitter), i can sympathize. "If you work hard, you'll get somewhere" is an aggregate, long-run thing, and it's easy at any point in that grueling journey to just give up and indulge in the quicker pleasures that surround us.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

The only people who are unset about this are the ones who are unwilling to do the uncomfortable things necessary to create a richer life for themselves.

I say 'richer' and not 'better' life because to many, enjoying drinking, socializing and gaming (or smoking or whatever your leisure) is a better life than have mega-money without those things.

Of course, if you're rich, you can look like that and still have a model for a boy/girlfriend.