wow this guy, its the same damn thing. Kratos had fewer games then mario this generation. Plus how can u say don't compare. If thats a issue mario would have died out by now, he isn't the fac for video games, hes the face for nintendo, just like when people think playstation, they think kratos. Kratos is arguably the most popular playstation brand name. You can't try sit here and say sony has no high tier names, Ratchet doesn't even get proper promotion and ToD did i think 2.5 mill and ACiT i think 1.5. That's high for almost no real promotion. Drake is high tier with the biggest new ip of the generation possibly. Sackboy is now a PlayStation icon, even little kids run around talking littlebigplanet like its mario now. Don't go on with BS and hate, with this lies, maks you look so ignorant

No.  Mario is the face of gaming... just how Hulk Hogan was... and honestly still sorta is the face of wrestling, despite Hulk Hogan being totally irrelevent at this point.  It didn't matter that WCW had Ric Flair or Sting, all most people knew was Hogan.  Hogan was wrestling.

Most people when they think of gaming, think of Mario no matter the system. 

You seems to really be overstimating the Sony stable.  I wouldn't say they don't have any high tier characters, but it really depends on what you want to consider high tier.

They certaintly don't have any transcedent super starts.

If anyone is expecting that All Stars is some sort of Smash Bros. killer, and will mean the end of Smash Bros. and all fans of the Smash Bros. play will be forced to migrate over to the Playstation platform to play it, they are setting themselves up for disappointment and yes, it will be a complete flop. Why anyone would think that is suspect.

If, on the other hand, the expectation is that Sony gets their own platform answer to Smash Bros, that becomes a viable franchise, I would say the chances are decent for that. Best hope is to hope All-Stars falls into the sleeper category, and stop overhyping it. Just try the demo and get it if you like it.

I can assure you, no one thinks this.

which games are you reffering to? 

because beyond uncharted and god of war i'm not really seeing your point

then factor in the fact that the biggest playstation franchise gran turismo doesn't fall into that category at all

Obviously not a flop in terms of making a profit. But that's a given, it will make a profit, this isn't a big budget game with masses of assets - we're talking character models and that's it for major chunk of it, then a pretty (by the looks of things) engine. So yes it will make a profit, I mean let's be honest here, if the next Halo only sells 2 million by year end that will also be a flop. Not all games are judged equally and you can't apply the same "new ip" bullshit rules to a game like this. It has pretty much every Sony and company strongly affiliated mascot going, has been talked about intensely as THE next PS3 exclusive.

I will judge it based on the criteria it deserves to be judged on.

This is going to go one way or the other, and I'm thinking the other....That or we'll have 2 million sales by the end of the year. People either take to this kind of game or they ignore it, initial reaction will be a massive decider and I disagree that just because it's a Sony exclusive it will have a steady stream of sales going forward - simply because of depth etc. When people see this in the shop after talking to their friends they aren't going to get reeled in unlike say Killzone or Heavy Rain, because Heavy Rain has mystery, intrigue, story, Killzone has GUNS and animated gifs haunting their mind. Pretty much all PS3 exclusives have something about them that I like that you only get on the PS3. I'm no Sony fan but I'll admit that with no hessitation. I would exclude Little Big Planet from that, it just reeks of blandness...anyway.

This has nothing.

....Don't even mention Little Big Planet Karting....which again is a similar nothingness about it like an empty soul. Sackboy in himself is simply a terrible mascot that has been forced down our throats. He has as much personality as the little dot from those pong games.

I stand by the lines you kindly underlined, this has nothing going for it. We've seen the E3 footage, come on you can't seriously say that was impressive. I mean there's literally nothing new hear that hasn't been done before, no gimmick, nothing.

...At least that's how it looks to me and I could be wrong, maybe I am...it's just another opinion.

ughh no. A success from a business point of view is determined by two things and two things only.

1. Profitability

2. Company's expectations of it 

Halo 2 selling 2 mil is a 'flop' cuz that means it did not meet expectations nor creating profit for the company. That's basically it. Nothing else really matters.

This IS a new IP and that's a fact and not BS. Don't let internet Hype and PR get to your head. If not FEZ would be the best selling game of all time. Stick to the reality of this. No one will have an idea of what the company's expectations of this game are in the short run. Best way to gauge it would be information on marketing budget, game budget and Post Game PR (to a lesser extent)

IF you are not a sony fan (didn't shock me) then I'm sure you see no appeal in this game. Games like these are 100% fan service oriented. I love the game because I love the characters first and foremost. Gameplay is secondary. Good thing is, contrary to what you may believe, the combat in this game has a lot of depth. So much so that I am discovering moves even now after around 2-3 weeks with the beta.

SO other than the profit/success argument, everything else is down to preference and opinion. So on those parts let's agree to disagree :)

I actually think that Mario's "selling power" is dropping. His games have legs, but looking at the 3DS there are now 5 retail release titles that pull from the Mario universe and I see only 2 of them really lasting, but are still less than a year old.

New Super Mario Bros. 2 slowly crossed a million in sales. Add to that the average scores it is getting.

However, that is a different discussion for a different thread. Kratos is a high tier character, but outside of Nathan Drake, the first party stable of characters that have been announced haven't had a strong release prior to this games release.

Sackboy is what Sony wants to be the mascot of PlayStation, but his selling power will be determined with the release of LittleBigPlanet Karting.

i have no idea how PSASBR is gonna do. if this rumour of a very cheap ps3 are true and it releases same time as battle royale, then it could sell well.

Uncharted, GOW, Heavy Rain are undoubtebly cinematic games, where presentation and story-telling are a main factor.

Killzone2, the first presented Ps3 flagship title, while being a more "regular" FPS was presented like a cinematic experience too. During the e3 2005 presentation, the famous pre-rendered trailer had a huge impact on the media at the time. The video wasn't showing gameplay elements and wasn't showing online features, it was all about a cinematic experince. Even if later the game shaped out more like a Gears style FPS, it's main differentiation factor from competition was still presentation and graphics, as opposed to competitors like Halo or Gears were the main differentiation factor was online play.

Infamous, while it can't be described as a cinematic experience is still a game where story-telling plays an important part.

If you look at present time The Last Of Us, Beyond Two Souls, GOW IV are still cinematic experiences.

Now that doesn't mean SCE only makes cinematic games, but Imo their main focus on cinematic games is quite clear. They have their most talented studios making them, and the best engines, the best media coverage. At same time, different kind of games like Mod Nation or Playstation Move Heroes or Sorcery are made with small smaller budgets by less talented teams. In the past SCE used to have their best studios making also multiplayer arcade games, NaughtyDog made CTR. Now SCE is restructuring, and by doing so they're choosing to close down studios who aren't developing cinematic games if you look at it. Bigbig studio and Studio Liverpool, Japan studio is not closing down but it looks like they're restructuring it too. 

Gran Turismo doesn't really count I'm talking about the Ps3 era, GT is a legacy franchise, it's only logical SCE will continue to produce it and it will remain a flagship title. Nintendo's main focus with the wii was motion controls, yet they made a 2D Mario and that's the biggest Nintendo franchise while it doesn't fall into the motion control category.