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Forums - Nintendo - NSMB2 is an exceptional game in the eyes of reviewers

Kresnik on 24 August 2012
the_dengle said:
noname2200 said:
zarx said:
Reviewers don't like 2D platformers as much?

Unless it's Rayman Origins!

Or an indie game, or LBP, or DKCR, or Kirby, or...

Actually, I'm thinking the reason critics are harder on New Super 2 is because there are more games of the same genre to compare it to. Galaxy came out in '07; Galaxy 2 in '10. How many noteworthy, revolutionary 3D platformers were made between those two games? Eh... how many 3D platformers at all were made between them?

NSMB came out in '06, New Super 2 in '12. Twice as long between games. 2D platformers are a dime a dozen this generation, so they have to prove that they're REALLY spectacular to stand out, to warrant much praise. There were plenty of 2D platformers in the past 6 years that added to the genre, expanding on an old formula. For New Super 2 to come out and pretend none of that innovation took place, like it's still 2006, was... a mistake. At least, apparently, in the eyes of the average critic.

The 3D platformer genre hasn't experienced massive change since Mario Galaxy in '07. The FPS genre hasn't changed much since Halo or COD4. But 2D platformers have come a long way since 2006. Maybe it's not "fair" to grade games on that kind of scale for one genre only, especially since New Super 2 is such a high-quality game in its own right, old-fashioned or not. But I imagine there would be a similar lashback if someone released an extremely dated FPS..... (*cough*, DNF). Now, sure, DNF was a plain-old bad game when you got right down to it. But one major criticism of it that cropped up frequently was that it ignored so much of the evolution of the genre in the past decade.

Maybe it's still a bit of a double-standard. Maybe it's still a lot of a double-standard. Maybe it only looks like a double-standard on the surface, but is pretty consistent when you look closely. Maybe I'm not going to commit to a clear opinion of my own, because (maybe) I don't really care. :P


Nice post.  I came here to say something similar to this, that the 2D platformer genre has just filled out since the last NSMB, whereas Galaxy really is pretty much in a dead genre these days.  There's very little to compare it to other than older games - stuff like Ratchet or Sly Cooper has a different focus.



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mjo011 on 24 August 2012

There is far more originality to be found in Super Mario Galaxy 2, and it's a FAR better game.

Super Mario World was released twenty years ago, and none of the NSMB-games have even come close to matching it. That says a lot.



VicViper on 24 August 2012

It's funny that people still use Doki Doki Panic as a real Mario game and not the real Mario 2.
And Yoshi's Island too - which became it's own series - do you consider Yoshi's Island DS a Mario game too? - because the change there was great from the previous one - why don't include it then?

If Yoshi's counting, why don't you people try Super Princess Peach or Wario World (and Land) for changes in 2D platforms in the same universe. After all, they must be "Mario" games too. Even DK country should too, since it's from the same universe - after all DK is a Mario character.

In the end, it's all just because Nintendo hasn't changed much the visual style of the game.



d21lewis on 24 August 2012

And there was a time where a Mario game had to last for three years or more before you got another Mario Adventure. We were starved! Now, we're getting them like clockwork. Too much of a good thing, I guess.



kopstudent89 on 24 August 2012

Very True.. amazing How Modern Warfare 3 has 88% on meta critic (and it's become a yearly franchise) where as we get an exceptional 2D Mario game gets 78%. DOUBLE STANDARDS



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d21lewis on 24 August 2012
VicViper said:

It's funny that people still use Doki Doki Panic as a real Mario game and not the real Mario 2.
And Yoshi's Island too - which became it's own series - do you consider Yoshi's Island DS a Mario game too? - because the change there was great from the previous one - why don't include it then?

If Yoshi's counting, why don't you people try Super Princess Peach or Wario World (and Land) for changes in 2D platforms in the same universe. After all, they must be "Mario" games too. Even DK country should too, since it's from the same universe - after all DK is a Mario character.

In the end, it's all just because Nintendo hasn't changed much the visual style of the game.


Yeah, we all know about Doki Doki and what not.  It's just that Nintendo says "This is Super Mario Bros. 2" or Yoshi's Island is "Super Mario World 2".  We don't get such distinction from Nintendo themselves when it comes to  the Wario games or Princess Peach.  Hope that helps ya, Fox!

*note to self*  Order Yoshi's Island DS from Amazon.com today



VicViper on 24 August 2012
d21lewis said:
VicViper said:

It's funny that people still use Doki Doki Panic as a real Mario game and not the real Mario 2.
And Yoshi's Island too - which became it's own series - do you consider Yoshi's Island DS a Mario game too? - because the change there was great from the previous one - why don't include it then?

If Yoshi's counting, why don't you people try Super Princess Peach or Wario World (and Land) for changes in 2D platforms in the same universe. After all, they must be "Mario" games too. Even DK country should too, since it's from the same universe - after all DK is a Mario character.

In the end, it's all just because Nintendo hasn't changed much the visual style of the game.


Yeah, we all know about Doki Doki and what not.  It's just that Nintendo says "This is Super Mario Bros. 2" or Yoshi's Island is "Super Mario World 2".  We don't get such distinction from Nintendo themselves when it comes to  the Wario games or Princess Peach.  Hope that helps ya, Fox!

But we know better than that about Mario 2.

The other point is, if it's just Super Mario World 2, it's considered Super Mario Bros 5 then? Or not?

Or it's another Monster World naming imbroglio?



darthdevidem01 on 24 August 2012
Signalstar said:
Swallow your pride and admit what you've been trying to deny for ages.... quality wise 3D Mario>>2D Mario

Basically yeah. 

Hope we get a New Super Mario World some day though. 



All hail the KING, Andrespetmonkey

d21lewis on 24 August 2012
VicViper said:
d21lewis said:
VicViper said:

It's funny that people still use Doki Doki Panic as a real Mario game and not the real Mario 2.
And Yoshi's Island too - which became it's own series - do you consider Yoshi's Island DS a Mario game too? - because the change there was great from the previous one - why don't include it then?

If Yoshi's counting, why don't you people try Super Princess Peach or Wario World (and Land) for changes in 2D platforms in the same universe. After all, they must be "Mario" games too. Even DK country should too, since it's from the same universe - after all DK is a Mario character.

In the end, it's all just because Nintendo hasn't changed much the visual style of the game.


Yeah, we all know about Doki Doki and what not.  It's just that Nintendo says "This is Super Mario Bros. 2" or Yoshi's Island is "Super Mario World 2".  We don't get such distinction from Nintendo themselves when it comes to  the Wario games or Princess Peach.  Hope that helps ya, Fox!

But we know better than that about Mario 2.

The other point is, if it's just Super Mario World 2, it's considered Super Mario Bros 5 then? Or not?

Or it's another Monster World naming imbroglio?


Just like how the Gameboy games went:  Mario Land, Mario Land 2, Mario Land 3: Wario Land, Wario Land 2

or

The advance games went:  Super Mario Advance (SMB2), Super Mario Advance 2 (Super Mario World), Super Mario Advance 3 (Yoshi's Island), Super Mario Advance 4 (Super Mario Bros 3).

 

Nintendo is batshit crazy when it comes to stuff like that.  Then again, Call of Duty did the same thing with CoD1, CoD2, CoD 3, Cod MW, CoD MW2, CoD MoW3, and somewhere in the middle of all of that we got Big Red One, World at War, and Black Ops.  They're all still Call of Duty but keeping track is a chore.



VicViper on 24 August 2012
d21lewis said:


Just like how the Gameboy games went:  Mario Land, Mario Land 2, Mario Land 3: Wario Land, Wario Land 2

or

The advance games went:  Super Mario Advance (SMB2), Super Mario Advance 2 (Super Mario World), Super Mario Advance 3 (Yoshi's Island), Super Mario Advance 4 (Super Mario Bros 3).

 

Nintendo is batshit crazy when it comes to stuff like that.  Then again, Call of Duty did the same thing with CoD1, CoD2, CoD 3, Cod MW, CoD MW2, CoD MoW3, and somewhere in the middle of all of that we got Big Red One, World at War, and Black Ops.  They're all still Call of Duty but keeping track is a chore.

I just think all those should be considered. People wanting drastic changes like Yoshi's Island for example, should look into Wario World or Super Princess Peach or even play the sequels to YI - quite different from one another. And people saying Nintendo used to change 2D Mario all the time, should look at Mario 2.

And most importantly, change usually is a meaning for complexity too. Changing too much, the game becomes either: unrecognizable or extra complex (less appealling to the masses)

Mario was more or less victim of those same points. It's just a spiral, really. People wanted change in megaman for example, it came, people cried in joy! Then they continued the changing, became extra complex, and people complained. Then Megaman 9 came and people holded hands and started to sing the Kumba-iê together again. Megaman 10 was just acceptable, but 11? Oh, 11 NEEDS changing ... again!